Is Disney at fault for disappointment?

[ThistleMae]

Yes, this. The 180 day ADR window is causing more hoarding now.

It doesn't make sense with the other timelines. I think 90 days would make much more sense.

I completely agree. When FP+ opens people are changing things...if they can. People are booking multiple times for the same restaurant, filling up the openings. It just doesn't make good planning sense. I wish (Magical Wish) they would sync up those dates.

 

[ThistleMae]

It sucks if people do that for sure. It's a flaw in the system, but I'm not sure people wouldn't still do it at 60 days out just so they could hold off making the final decision until the last minute. People are always going to do that kind of thing. I wouldn't, but I know others would.

Well...good point...but for me...it would have been nice to book the restaurants and the FP+ at the same time. Whatever was available, would be available and at least I would have a decent plan, whether or not got everything I wanted. And yes...folks will still change their plans. I still think it would be far less complicated if the would sync those time frames.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Well...good point...but for me...it would have been nice to book the restaurants and the FP+ at the same time. Whatever was available, would be available and at least I would have a decent plan, whether or not got everything I wanted. And yes...folks will still change their plans. I still think it would be far less complicated if the would sync those time frames.

I agree. And if they choose to sync it by making the FP+ window 180 days also, that would not be good, IMO. That's way too far in advance to be thinking about specific ride times. I hope they do sync it, and I hope they do so by making the ADR window shorter.

 

[lugnut33]

Well, my last trip was 17 years ago, and the three before that went back as far as my first trip 37 years ago. I'm expecting it to be a much different experience now than it was then. I've been enjoying the planning, am excited about the ADRs I have, and look forward to making FP+ reservations when the time comes. Maybe I'll get there and hate it, but I doubt it.

It is possible to see things you don't like and not hate it.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Sounds like Disney isn't the place for you then?

Less and Less. I say this as someone who started going in the early 1970's, and after a great many trips with week-long extended family/multiple hotel room vacations often at Easter/spring break pricing no less.

It makes me sad to think that WDW is no longer geared to extended family groups, because it was a great place for so many years, but it just isn't any more.

Mind, I'm still visiting Florida and even Orlando. I'm just going more to the places where my money is well spent.

 

[EricInPA]

Maybe Disney needs a disclaimer like you see in car commercials: "Do Not Attempt. Professional Actors On Closed Set".

 

[cleopenn]

Maybe Disney needs a disclaimer like you see in car commercials: "Do Not Attempt. Professional Actors On Closed Set".

Ha! Love it.

See, I'm with you until you get to the bolded. I agree that there are tons of resources out there, and people have ample opportunities to be informed. That said, I have empathy for the ones who think WDW is no different than any other vacation they plan for. THere's no other vacation I've ever planned that needed to be done as far in advance as a WDW vacation. I imagine it's the same for many people in the world. So while I agre they have ample opportunity to become informed, I feel *badly* for them that they aren't. I don't think they are lacking in common sense because they didn't know they needed to choose where to eat 6 months in advance.

I know plenty of people who have read the books or seen the sites and just did not believe that they needed to book 6 months out. They are going out and seeking information, just like you. They just think the 6 month thing is exaggerated, or something that just uber Disney planners do, not something they absolutely *have* to do (even if they want a coveted place). It was just not fathomable to them that it was *necessary* to book ADRs for certain places at 6 months out, because it is so entirely out of the scope of anything they've had to do for anywhere else.

I just don't think it's necessary to put people down when discussing this.

We are planning our first trip. Many friends and acquaintances freaked out when they heard we planned with at the last minute (as in September for a Nov trip) Some said they simply just wouldn't go, that we couldn't possibility have a good time.

Even the TA (a Disney specialist) made it VERY clear to me prior to booking that it was very possible we would be shut out of most times.

Which going into too much unnecessary detail, our family lives, education and subsequent careers have taken us halfway around the world and back. We are no strangers to planning (I am a uber-planner, love it!) but 1000 percent yes, the amount of pre-planning this trip will take (even if it would have been 12 months in advance) is unlike anything I have experienced. It truly is beyond the scope of anything I've had to do for anywhere else. Getting work permits for foreign countries has been easier!

The ADRs blow my mind. Even the "best" restaurants in major metropolitan US cities don't have a total black-out 6 months out. Over the summer we travelled to a city and wanted to eat at a very famous, very popular restaurant. I called 4 weeks ahead and got a reservation. Granted, we made come compromises relating to timing but point being, it was doable.

All of this isn't deterring me and I don't think the trip will disappoint but as I mentioned before, our DS is going into this just happy to be going to WDW. I have little pressure to secure "must dos" for him. If he (or we) had different expectations, I think the stress would absolutely detract for the enjoyment.

 

[TiffanyA]

It's not Disney's job to instill common sense into people.

I have made reservations all over the world. In not one place did I need to make one more than a week in advance unless I wanted a specific time, not just a table. I grew up in Miami which definitely runs on tourism. Reservations for even the most popular restaurants in South Beach don't need to be made more than a week or two in advance unless you're planning to try to dine during major holiday. I am not sure how common sense factors into 180 day advance reservations. It's an EXTREME.

Maybe Disney needs a disclaimer like you see in car commercials: "Do Not Attempt. Professional Actors On Closed Set".

 

[rwdavis2]

I have made reservations all over the world. In not one place did I need to make one more than a week in advance and that was if I wanted a specific time, not just a table. I grew up in Miami which definitely runs on tourism. Reservations for popular restaurants in South Beach need to be made no more than a week in advance. I am not sure how common sense factors into 180 day advance reservations. It's an EXTREME.

The better restaurants here in DC and Baltimore all require reservations weeks in advance. But, IMHO, I think people get too wrapped up in WDW dining thus they all "sell out" so early. Most places are just not that great to get all worked up about. Especially for the prices. There's always someplace with at least decent food.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

and it is a rare thing for someone who has never been to WDW to post something that impresses me!

I have multiple acquaintances that regularly travel for work- often last minute to major cities all over the USA and the world. (Orlando itself is full of conventions and business meetings.) Business travel is like that - it usually has to be approved - which often doesn't happen very far in advance.

In 2015, the travel industry very much has to allow for last minute travel to survive. If major hotel chains like Marriott can survive by catering to last-minute business travelers, than surely Disney doesn't need six month to figure out how many hot dogs to stock at Casey's.

 

[rwdavis2]

In 2015, the travel industry very much has to allow for last minute travel to survive. If major hotel chains like Marriott can survive by catering to last-minute business travelers, than surely Disney doesn't need six month to figure out how many hot dogs to stock at Casey's.

Maybe the 180 day window is to drive up perceived demand and hype. If they widened it to 270 might there still be the same demand?

 

[MrInfinity]

Imagine a typical metropolitan city and it's 4 or 5 best restaurants in one city block. Now, put up walls around that block. Now, drop 50,000 guests into that walled block for a week. And oh yeah, 50,000 new guests every single day of the foreseeable future, well, forever. Now. With those 50,000 guests there, with no way out, and nowhere to eat but those 4 or 5 restaurants and a McDonalds and a Burger King to handle the massive overflow, do you still think the decent food places won't book up the instant they can?

That's why they book up. 50,000 guests, every day. Captive audience. It's not a fair comparison to look at a city restaurant, because in a city, you had breakfast at home, you make food, you go about normal eating habits including picking your local Red Lobster from a choice of a thousand restaurants, which you can get into day-of without a reservation.

Maybe the 180 day window is to drive up perceived demand and hype. If they widened it to 270 might there still be the same demand?

Say Disney had no early cutoff on when you could reserve. So you can reserve 5 years from now if you want. In that scenario, when would the dining fill up?

 

[rwdavis2]

Imagine a typical metropolitan city and it's 4 or 5 best restaurants in one city block. Now, put up walls around that block. Now, drop 50,000 guests into that walled block for a week. And oh yeah, 50,000 new guests every single day of the foreseeable future, well, forever. Now. With those 50,000 guests there, with no way out, and nowhere to eat but those 4 or 5 restaurants and a McDonalds and a Burger King to handle the massive overflow, do you still think the decent food places won't book up the instant they can?

That's why they book up. 50,000 guests, every day. Captive audience. It's not a fair comparison to look at a city restaurant, because in a city, you had breakfast at home, you make food, you go about normal eating habits including picking your local Red Lobster from a choice of a thousand local restaurants, which you can get into day-of without a reservation.

Excellent point.

 

[cleopenn]

I think it was this thread or maybe the luxury article on Resorts where I posted about how we have free stays (via points) at any Marriott property, including the Ritz Carlton, yet I chose to book the Poly CL. (There was availability at the RC and I had a stay booked at the JW so a rewards stay was absolutely feasible.)

My thinking at the time was that the convenience provided by the on-property location and the services of a concierge*** would be worth the price. (The value of atmosphere/branding is a separate topic.) I'll report back after our trip on if that thinking was flawed or not.....

***I have since learned WDW is like no other place on earth and that's great, just extremely surprising. Being a frequent business and pleasure travelers, we are used to concierge services at deluxe level hotels and resort wielding, if not special powers, at the very least some pull with higher end restaurants when it comes to making dining arrangements, options for car services/airport transfer, etc. I was taken aback to learn the CL concierges have the same level of access to ADRs as guests. I asked about the Polynesian's options for non-DME airport transfers and learned there are none. Any other major tourist destination resort or hotel in this price range I have stayed at offered some sort of upgraded service for a fee.

The better restaurants here in DC and Baltimore all require reservations weeks in advance. But, IMHO, I think people get too wrapped up in WDW dining thus they all "sell out" so early. Most places are just not that great to get all worked up about. Especially for the prices. There's always someplace with at least decent food.

On-site dining, both quality and convenience was the 2nd deciding factor when deciding to pay $x,xxx versus $0. Easy access to the parks was the 1st factor.

So far, what Disney was "selling" ME via their websites and videos versus perceived realty -

Transportation

I thought about how nice is was to not have to rent a car. We would save the dollars and the driving hassle and enjoy just taking Disney transportation. Then I learned that serious commuting time (as in 60-90 minutes) was likely required to get to and from the parks and restaurants, that many people onsite rent cars just to get between attractions. We will take Disney transportation if we can but not at the expense of fun time. I foresee using Uber at night. After researching DME, I realized that was not a good option for our family's needs.

Dining

I assumed, very wrongly it turns out, that the WDW complex would have sufficient sit-down ("real" restaurants as my DH would call them) to service resort guests. I don't mean being able to stroll in at peak hours and get a table. I am talking about any openings at all several weeks out. My first thought after my ADR trial by fire was "I made a very expensive mistake...." as it relates to ponying up the money to stay on-site. I have since come down out of that panic tree but it required a huge time commitment in order to secure reservations. I started on my ADRs asap after make resort reservations.

Maybe Disney manufactures demand by the insane ADR system or the dining plans that keep people on-site? Maybe there truly isn't enough facilities to meet demand? However, I find it hard to believe Disney would let a such a high-margin line of business (fine dining and liquor/wine sales) pass them by if the demand is there.

While Disney isn't at fault for disappointment Disney marketing gives the inexperienced/ignorant visitor a perception that may be very different than reality, more so than average marketing. Genius on their part.

Like I mentioned in another post, the resort/park business side of Disney is fascinating to me and experiencing it is something I am looking forward to.

And I am loving my research on this site. The contributors here are AMAZING and such a great source of detailed information.

 

[rwdavis2]

...

Dining

I assumed, very wrongly it turns out, that the WDW complex would have sufficient sit-down ("real" restaurants as my DH would call them) to service resort guests. I don't mean being able to stroll in at peak hours and get a table. I am talking about any openings at all several weeks out. My first thought after my ADR trial by fire was "I made a very expensive mistake...." as it relates to ponying up the money to stay on-site. I have since come down out of that panic tree but it required a huge time commitment in order to secure reservations. I started on my ADRs asap after make resort reservations.

Maybe Disney manufactures demand by the insane ADR system or the dining plans that keep people on-site? Maybe there truly isn't enough facilities to meet demand? However, I find it hard to believe Disney would let a such a high-margin line of business (fine dining and liquor/wine sales) pass them by if the demand is there.
......

That's what I think too. There is no where near enough sit-downs in the parks except for possible Epcot. (But maybe they want it that way.) Disney Springs might finally have enough good places to eat when completed. Until then Universal City Walk has it beat for choices.

 

[MrToadsWildRide]

"Many Disney table-service restaurants are quite popular and book quickly. Please make dining reservations up to 180 days in advance by calling (407) WDW-DINE or (407) 939-3463."

I probably shouldn't stick my toe in this water. (it's not like it was Mr. Frog's Wilde Ride)

It may be possible that the statement Disney makes could be more realistic. (no way I'm using the word misleading)

I think the actual reality is, just about all table service restaurants book up almost complete, months in advance. So if you don't book something there's a really high probability that you won't eat at any restaurant that takes reservations.

Going during a holiday? (like I don't know, spring break, Easter, all summer, Food and Wine Festival, Christmas, Kwanza) Then chances are very high that you will get turned away at every restaurant that does take reservations (don't forget to wave hi to all the DIS Board members waiting for their table)

I recently got turned away from every (okay, only 5) Epcot Resort Area restaurant I walked up to. I wound up eating in the bar, only because they don't take reservations.

I also just checked Cape May for breakfast for a party of 4 for next weekend, the 7th. Not one single opening was available.

Is it impossible to get reservations?
No.

Do you have to book in advance to get a decent reservation?
Yes.

Do you have to book 180.01 days in advance to get what you want, when you want?
Most likely.

Is this anything like any other dining experience on any other non-Disney Vacation?
None that I've ever encountered or ever heard anyone speak of.

Does Disney know this?
I think so, it's their reservation system and they have CMs turning people away each and every day, all day long.

Is Disney to blame?
Sounds a little harsh to me.

Is the (lazy good for nothing) Guest to blame?
They shouldn't be.

Besides, what's the point in figuring out who's to blame? (okay, other than it might be fun to argue about it)

Could Disney do more to educate people, especially first time visitors, about how hard it is to eat there? (Disney knows if you've visited before, cause they have komputors)
I can't think of a reason why not.

Is a quote on a website enough?
Probably not. (which reminds me, I gotta finish reading that iTunes license agreement, only 6 more pages to go)

I don't have a good answer to this issue. But I'm sure the smart folks at Disney could think of one. Which could only improve on the overall experience of their guests.

Geez. For someone who didn't want to stick their toe in the water, I feel like I fell in.

(wish me luck, hitting Post Reply now)

 

[Angel Ariel]

Disney wants a captive audience. I totally agree with that, they do. They're doing a really good job of following through on that. However, they need the infrastructure (in this case # of TS restaurants) to handle the demand they've been actively creating. That is something that does fall squarely on Disney.

 

[cleopenn]

OT but rwdavis2 - I love your signature line. Must watch some Pittsburgh dad on the ipad tonight.

 

[larryz]

Maybe Disney needs a disclaimer like you see in car commercials: "Do Not Attempt. Professional Actors On Closed Set".

And "Your Magic May Vary (YMMV)."

 

[ophelia2002]

I made my first trip to WDW back in 2007. I knew nothing about ADRs or FPs so we waited in long lines and ate a lot of quick service meals. The lines for rides didn't bug me too much but the meals were an issue because A) everyone gets cranky when they are hungry and B) at that time, IIRC, the QS meals weren't very good. It seemed like every place had the same food- burgers, nuggets, pizza. Blah.

So, for my next trip I prepared better. I made ADRs and used FPs and overall it was a more enjoyable trip. Was WDW not do-able without those things? No, but it made subsequent trips much more pleasant overall.

However, I do acknowledge that my experience in 2007 without ADRs and FPs might be very different than the same situation in 2015.