Is Disney at fault for disappointment?

[JimmyV]

But before you go jumping on the bash-Iger train, remember that the Pixar acquisition was all Iger.

I agree that Iger did a lot of great stuff related to the movies studio. But he left the parks (in the United States) to coast for more than a decade. That's a short period of time in the long run, but a significant period of time when we are talking about a 45 year history.

 

[DoingDisney]

Amazes me when people talk about how Disney World is not adding stuff.

* MK got 1/4 of it's park redone from the ground up - caverns, mountains, waterfalls, bridges, Storybook Circus, Fantasyland, and the Enchanted Forest.
* HS is getting 1/2 of the park redone, with Star Wars and Toy Story, with thrill and non-thrill rides planned.
* AK is getting 1/4 of the park redone from the ground up in Pandora, plus another 1/4 of the park (Africa) got a major food/theming overhaul.
* Epcot is getting ride redone which will be the biggest princess draw in all of Disney World.
* Downtown Disney is almost entirely new.
* And let's not forget other parks are opening around the world and DL/CA are getting major overhauls too!

As I noted, since I assume you are talking about my post as no one else mentioned the lack of capacity build, I am happy that Disney is moving forward and adding more stuff, though when we will actually see this is anyone's guess.

However what you fail to note is what has been closed to add the things you are pointing to, how much actual capacity has been added ? What is the net change in Capacity on rides from 2001 - 2015 ? Not much.

I am very excited for the stuff in HS for instance, I am sure there will be quite a net gain, but a lot has also closed, things closed in MK as well, EPCOT we are just exchanging one ride for another, Downtown Disney isn't a park people are paying a ticket price for to compete for ride demand (in fact its a great example of the stress on increasing profits by squeezing more money out of people).

 

[JimmyV]

Let me just get this straight. I expect this massive theme park complex to be refreshed with new rides, restaurants and theming every time I go.

It depends how often you go. Just take a look at the historical chronology between 1982 and 1997 and see how often major things were being rolled out. And we are talking about entire parks, and not just a ride or two. Are you suggesting that 2000-2013 was on par with 1982-1997? Seriously?

 

[EricInPA]

I think the sarcasm alarm is busted.

 

[littleblackegg]

It depends how often you go. Just take a look at the historical chronology between 1982 and 1997 and see how often major things were being rolled out. And we are talking about entire parks, and not just a ride or two. Are you suggesting that 2000-2013 was on par with 1982-1997? Seriously?

I am actually making a joke. However, I have met plenty of people who have the COMBINED expectations that everything is going to be new, refreshed and completely overhauled AND also never change, always have the same exact features, menu items, characters, etc. And stay the same price. Considering the number of guests they serve every day, I think Disney does a pretty good job of managing both capital investment projects and day-to-day maintenance projects while still moving customers around.

 

[JimmyV]

I am actually making a joke.

Sorry. I'm usually pretty good at picking up on that.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

Sadly it was easy to miss since it does sound like a real response you might get.

 

[MrInfinity]

However what you fail to note is what has been closed to add the things you are pointing to, how much actual capacity has been added ? What is the net change in Capacity on rides from 2001 - 2015 ? Not much.

So, what are the most significant things, to you, that have been closed?

To me... Hm. I have to think here.

PUSH. Loved him. But I think we'll see new droids and more in Star Wars Land, so I'm ok w this.

Some shows at EPCOT. But to me, these shows really should be changed out every 2 years. They should be seen as temporary acts, not fixed productions.

Maelstrom. But it was kind of dated. So again, although I would have rather Frozen got the Energy pavilion across from the Seas and turn it into a massive Frozen world, ditching that ride which nobody cared about instead of Maelstrom, plus giving Frozen the larger footprint it deserves, and the option to buld out a Frozen pavilion a-la Nemo/Seas style, Maelstrom going is an acceptable (but still ) quick fix given the new ride will be more popular. The theater in Norway definitely had to be repurposed, nobody watched that movie.

I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them at the moment... so I'm not trying to artificially cut the list short to make a point. How about you? I'm not asking for a list of what's closed, I'm asking more personally, what has been closed there, that you genuinely loved in terms of rides... attractions that were materially influential in your choice to go to Disney World, which are not there now or replaced by something better. For example, LMA closing is true, but I never really considered it a draw. The theater was pretty empty when I saw it in 2010, and we never went to it again. I'd RATHER this be torn out and rebuilt into Star Wars because it was wasted space to me, before.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I am actually making a joke. However, I have met plenty of people who have the COMBINED expectations that everything is going to be new, refreshed and completely overhauled AND also never change, always have the same exact features, menu items, characters, etc. And stay the same price. Considering the number of guests they serve every day, I think Disney does a pretty good job of managing both capital investment projects and day-to-day maintenance projects while still moving customers around.

I do think they are in a tough position to fight nostalgia and progress at the same time. That said they've had a lot of misses in this area over the past 15 years. I'm not sure anything is more glaring than shutting down PotC to put on some new costumes but not addressing the boats taking on water.

 

[littleblackegg]

Sorry. I'm usually pretty good at picking up on that.

I'm usually pretty overt when busting into my "Why can't I have everything I want right now?" consumer character, but she can be lost without the gestures. And the muu muu.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

So, what are the most significant things, to you, that have been closed?

To me... Hm. I have to think here.

PUSH. Loved him. But I think we'll see new droids and more in Star Wars Land, so I'm ok w this.

Some shows at EPCOT. But to me, these shows really should be changed out every 2 years. They should be seen as temporary acts, not fixed productions.

Maelstrom. But it was kind of dated. So again, although I would have rather Frozen got the Energy pavilion across from the Seas and turn it into a massive Frozen world, ditching that ride which nobody cared about instead of Maelstrom, plus giving Frozen the larger footprint it deserves, and the option to buld out a Frozen pavilion a-la Nemo/Seas style, Maelstrom going is an acceptable (but still ) quick fix given the new ride will be more popular. The theater in Norway definitely had to be repurposed, nobody watched that movie.

I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them at the moment... so I'm not trying to artificially cut the list short to make a point. How about you? I'm not asking for a list of what's closed, I'm asking more personally, what has been closed there, that you genuinely loved in terms of rides... attractions that were materially influential in your choice to go to Disney World, which are not there now or replaced by something better. For example, LMA closing is true, but I never really considered it a draw. The theater was pretty empty when I saw it in 2010, and we never went to it again. I'd RATHER this be torn out and rebuilt into Star Wars because it was wasted space to me, before.

Not sure he was just talking about pure closures but an overlay doesn't change capacity. Stitch was new but it didn't allow them to process any more guests. Tron Track gave things a new look but again no increase in processing guests. Same with Living Seas, Frozen, etc. in that they're new but they don't add capacity.

That said I really miss Sounds Dangerous and the Hunchback show.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The Tier-1 ride capactiy at this park is being nearly doubled. That is hardly bad for an "interim" improvement, at the park being least improved at the moment!

Maelstrom was a Tier 1 ride. Frozen is replacing Maelstrom, not an addition. It's possible Frozen will have a bit more capacity than Maelstrom, but from the description of the ride, they are using the same boat concept that Maelstrom had. There's only so much capacity that brings. There might be a modest increase over what Maelstrom had, but it isn't going to be a large increase. Soarin' is adding 1 theatre, which is great, but not doubling its capacity.

The fact that replacing a Tier 1 ride with another tier 1 ride, and adding 1 theatre to soarin, is seen as "nearly doubling" the tier 1 ride capacity is part of the problem at Epcot. There should be more attractions there...replacing Maelstrom and adding 1 theatre to Soarin' should not be anywhere considered nearly doubling tier 1 rides.

But before you go jumping on the bash-Iger train, remember that the Pixar acquisition was all Iger. Really Disney partnering with Pixar has changed Disney in so many ways. Where would the parks be today without Woody & Buzz?

Yes, he bought Pixar (and I absolutely credit him with that purchase as well as Marvel and LucasFilm) but how does Iger get the credit for Woody and Buzz? Toy Story 1 and 2 were made in 1995 and 1999 respectively - both before Iger was President and COO of Disney.

 

[littleblackegg]

Sadly it was easy to miss since it does sound like a real response you might get.

Love it!!!

 

[MrInfinity]

Maelstrom was a Tier 1 ride. Frozen is replacing Maelstrom, not an addition. It's possible Frozen will have a bit more capacity than Maelstrom, but from the description of the ride, they are using the same boat concept that Maelstrom had. There's only so much capacity that brings. There might be a modest increase over what Maelstrom had, but it isn't going to be a large increase. Soarin' is adding 1 theatre, which is great, but not doubling its capacity.

Right but so was LWTL for a while. Just because it's in Tier 1 does not mean people think of it that way. How many times did you use your initial FP+ on Maelstrom and not Soarin or Test Track? So the REAL tier-1 rides, as in the things people are trying to get, are actually being increased. They are replacing a take-it-or-leave-it ride with a ride that will actually compete for FPs with Soarin and TT.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So, what are the most significant things, to you, that have been closed?

How about you? I'm not asking for a list of what's closed, I'm asking more personally, what has been closed there, that you genuinely loved in terms of rides... attractions that were materially influential in your choice to go to Disney World, which are not there now or replaced by something better.

It was my understanding of the poster's response that their issue with things closing is the effect that has had on the overall attraction capacity in the park. Whether or not someone liked The Backlot Tour, or Snow White's Scary Adventures, or LMA (there are more) is immaterial to the point re: overall attraction capacity.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Right but so was LWTL for a while. Just because it's in Tier 1 does not mean people think of it that way. How many times did you use your initial FP+ on Maelstrom and not Soarin or Test Track? So the REAL tier-1 rides, as in the things people are trying to get, are actually being increased. They are replacing a take-it-or-leave-it ride with a ride that will actually compete for FPs with Soarin and TT.

I was commenting on the objective - a tier 1 ride being replaced by a tier 1 ride. Not the subjective of which ride is better or will run out of FPs sooner. Disney is the one creating and labeling those tiers, not me.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm usually pretty overt when busting into my "Why can't I have everything I want right now?" consumer character, but she can be lost without the gestures. And the muu muu.

Sorry, I read this and I couldn't help thinking of Veruca Salt..

 

[MrInfinity]

I was commenting on the objective - a tier 1 ride being replaced by a tier 1 ride. Not the subjective of which ride is better or will run out of FPs sooner. Disney is the one creating and labeling those tiers, not me.

You are totally missing the point here. Maelstrom is not something PEOPLE would choose to grab as a fastpass over, say, TT and Soarin. Frozen, WILL BE. They are replacing (retheming, reskinning, whatever verb you want to use to downplay the importance of this ride) a mediocre ride that did not draw guests to the park with a ride that will be a HUGE DRAW. It will be the new most-sought FP+. It is adding capacity of rides that people want.

 

[Angel Ariel]

You are totally missing the point here. Maelstrom is not something PEOPLE would choose to grab as a fastpass over, say, TT and Soarin. Frozen, WILL BE. They are replacing (retheming, reskinning, whatever adjective you want to give it to suggest you think little of it) a mediocre ride with a ride that will be a HUGE DRAW. It will be the new most-sought FP+. It is adding capacity of rides that people want.

I didn't miss the point, actually. I know that it will be the new most sought after FP+. You're missing the point that the other poster and I were trying ot make.

Your point - that it's adding capacity of rides people want - only works if Maelstrom's capacity was never used. Maelstrom wasn't deserted. It had lines, its capacity was used. I remember waiting in quite a long line for it myself. Frozen's FP+ will be more coveted, yes, but the actual number of riders the attraction takes through in a day is not going to be significantly different than Maelstrom was. There will be some increase, yes, as I did say before (coming from potential more efficient ride system with newer technology, and the ride running at full capacity more often than Maelstrom did). But it isn't going to be an increase in actual # of bodies moved through the ride to the huge extent it's being made out to be.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Just because it's in Tier 1 does not mean people think of it that way. How many times did you use your initial FP+ on Maelstrom and not Soarin or Test Track? .

Oh, and as for this - never. Disney removed Maelstrom entirely before I experienced the park with FP+. Instead of enjoying a ride through Maelstrom last year (I am Norwegian, so the pavilion means a lot to me), there was nothing but construction walls to replace it with a fictional country.

(before I'm accused of it, I will actually ride Frozen, I like the movie. I just don't like where they are putting it. It's not like I'm going to boycott the attraction, though).