Is being gay a lifestyle choice?

[jimmiej]

Sounds like brainwashing to me. I don't like the lumping together of being gay with being an addict, abuser etc. That is an odd mixture there. Addicts may have made an initial choice but I don't think a continuing one, abusers make a choice to stay with the people they feel compelled to abuse, and adulterers clearly make a choice PERIOD to cheat on their spouses. Not really fair to group those together.
As far as abusers, adulterers and addicts, I've known more of them that go to church than don't! I believe in going to church but I do not believe that it will magically take away your problems. It is something to inspire you to work on your life and make good decisions, which homosexuality is not (a decisions) and in my opinion addiciton is not either (but that is a whole other argument). If it were really that simple all we'd have to do is take all the criminals and addicts, etc. in the world and stick them in church a couple sundays and everything would be all good in the world.

I didn't say church changes lives. I said JESUS changes lives.

The lady in my story made her own decision to leave her lesbian relationship. She said she was convicted to do so.

 

[Freyja]

Hmmm, what happened to my original question? LOL
Almost a thousand posts, about one innocent question. Guess it wasn´t so innocent after all...

 

[JoyG]

Hmmm, what happened to my original question? LOL
Almost a thousand posts, about one innocent question. Guess it wasn´t so innocent after all...

A lot of recent posts haven't been about your question. Your question sparked a conversation...that's what seems to be going on here. Just like a conversation in person, this one is making twists and turns along the way.

 

[L107ANGEL]

I was staying far away from this thread but the more it keeps going the more I am reminded of this John Lennon song...

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Love this

 

[Freyja]

Love this

Great reminder!!!

 

[Buckalew11]

well, I didn't say evolution says we come from apes. But, yeah, 30 years ago in school, I do remember hearing that we may have come from apes. I KNOW we are evolving. Everything changes. Everything. Except God. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. And one of you say "evolution is fact" and one says it is a theory. I was taught it was a theory (30 years ago).

And yes, Joy is right about the "guess" about the age of the earth and how it was determined.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

Hmmm, what happened to my original question? LOL
Almost a thousand posts, about one innocent question. Guess it wasn´t so innocent after all...

Be careful, or your innocence will begin to be debated!

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Not speaking for Joe, but Christians believe JESUS changes lives. We have many people in our church who have been changed by the power of Christ. Alchoholics, abusers, adulterers, and just plain old sinners like me! A good friend of ours was living in a lesbian relationship when she and her partner joined our church. Now, two years later, she has decided to move out and live on her own because she felt her lesbian relationship wasn't pleasing to God.

Sounds like brainwashing to me. I don't like the lumping together of being gay with being an addict, abuser etc. That is an odd mixture there. Addicts may have made an initial choice but I don't think a continuing one, abusers make a choice to stay with the people they feel compelled to abuse, and adulterers clearly make a choice PERIOD to cheat on their spouses. Not really fair to group those together.
As far as abusers, adulterers and addicts, I've known more of them that go to church than don't! I believe in going to church but I do not believe that it will magically take away your problems. It is something to inspire you to work on your life and make good decisions, which homosexuality is not (a decisions) and in my opinion addiciton is not either (but that is a whole other argument). If it were really that simple all we'd have to do is take all the criminals and addicts, etc. in the world and stick them in church a couple sundays and everything would be all good in the world.

God has changed the lives of many , regardless of what vices or poor decisions.

If going to church doesn't change your life, there isn't much of a reason to go, except as a religious ritual.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

I agree utterly with this. Even though we (we as in Progressive Christians) don't believe we as humans could ever begin to comprehend reality and all of God's great work, we have a duty to try as best we can. It's part of leading a good life - simply ignoring the very things we live in and under is arrogant beyond belief.

We all have the capacity to analyse to some degree - let's use it, not waste it. Rich::

What are Progressive Christians?

 

[L107ANGEL]

God has changed the lives of many , regardless of what vices or poor decisions.

If going to church doesn't change your life, there isn't much of a reason to go, except as a religious ritual.

You really know how to push the envelope Joe.
Yes God has changed many people and their ways. To say or try to mesh into this message that homosexual individuals "have seen the light and the error of their ways is as insane as to say I joined a church and they taught me I was wrong to be hetrosexual.
That way in thinking is as bad as trying to say you have a right to be a bigot!

 

[Laura]

well, I didn't say evolution says we come from apes. But, yeah, 30 years ago in school, I do remember hearing that we may have come from apes. I KNOW we are evolving. Everything changes. Everything. Except God. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. And one of you say "evolution is fact" and one says it is a theory. I was taught it was a theory (30 years ago).

And yes, Joy is right about the "guess" about the age of the earth and how it was determined.

Evolution itself is a fact. It is the process of evolution that is the theory; how it works hasn't been fully figured out yet. Evolution has been observed in science, it is a reality.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

God has changed the lives of many , regardless of what vices or poor decisions.

If going to church doesn't change your life, there isn't much of a reason to go, except as a religious ritual.

The third commandment says, "Go to church." It doesn't say your life has to be changed or you stink. I mean, how many epiphanies can a person have?

I'm not sure that my life has ever been changed by going to church. If I'd NEVER gone, maybe my life would be different. I leave feeling better than I walked in, usually. But, there have been occasions where I sat there all hung-over just waiting for it to be over, or looking around a people's hairstyles or outifts, "What is she thinking," or "I wish my hair would do that."

I can't believe your mind NEVER wanders at church.

I think if you show up, do your best, that's what God is looking for.

...maybe I'm wrong.

 

[JoyG]

The third commandment says, "Go to church."

Actually the third commandment is not "Go to Church" That's the 4th one.

Exodus 20:
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Commandment 1)
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (Commandment 2)
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. (Commandment 3)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Commandment 4)
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (Commandment 5)
13 Thou shalt not kill. (Commandment 6)
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Commandment 7)
15 Thou shalt not steal. (Commandment 8)
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (Commandment 9)
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. (Commandment 10)


The Catholic faith has typically left out the 2nd commandment in their catechisms and broken another of the commandments into two parts. I'm not sure which one was broken into two though, I'll have to look on the internet to find out...I'll post it when I find it.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

Actually the third commandment is not "Go to Church" That's the 4th one.

OK, OK, the Catholic 3rd commandment says, "Go to church." It also says, "chill out on Sundays."

I didn't know that different denominations had different commandments.

But I stand by the part about not having to have your life changed. How could a life change every week?

eta: We lump your first seven into the first one, basically. I honestly didn't know some people had 17 commandments. What are you, anyway?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

The third commandment says, "Go to church." It doesn't say your life has to be changed or you stink. I mean, how many epiphanies can a person have?

I'm not sure that my life has ever been changed by going to church. If I'd NEVER gone, maybe my life would be different. I leave feeling better than I walked in, usually. But, there have been occasions where I sat there all hung-over just waiting for it to be over, or looking around a people's hairstyles or outifts, "What is she thinking," or "I wish my hair would do that."

I can't believe your mind NEVER wanders at church.

I think if you show up, do your best, that's what God is looking for.

...maybe I'm wrong.

When did I say my mind never wanders at church?

God usually changes us over time. I'm not expecting some big epiphany each time I go to church either. Like you say, " I leave feeling better than I walked in, usually."

I'm saying we should not go "just because we are supposed to," but go to fellowship with the brethren, worship God, and hear the Word of God (for encouragement, love, and instruction) which touches our mind and heart.

 

[dcentity2000]

Not speaking for Joe, but Christians believe JESUS changes lives. We have many people in our church who have been changed by the power of Christ. Alchoholics, abusers, adulterers, and just plain old sinners like me! A good friend of ours was living in a lesbian relationship when she and her partner joined our church. Now, two years later, she has decided to move out and live on her own because she felt her lesbian relationship wasn't pleasing to God.

Sounds like brainwashing to me. I don't like the lumping together of being gay with being an addict, abuser etc. That is an odd mixture there. Addicts may have made an initial choice but I don't think a continuing one, abusers make a choice to stay with the people they feel compelled to abuse, and adulterers clearly make a choice PERIOD to cheat on their spouses. Not really fair to group those together.
As far as abusers, adulterers and addicts, I've known more of them that go to church than don't! I believe in going to church but I do not believe that it will magically take away your problems. It is something to inspire you to work on your life and make good decisions, which homosexuality is not (a decisions) and in my opinion addiciton is not either (but that is a whole other argument). If it were really that simple all we'd have to do is take all the criminals and addicts, etc. in the world and stick them in church a couple sundays and everything would be all good in the world.

Another Progressive slant here...

We are God's children and He loves each and every one of us unconditionally. INCLUDING sinners. What matters most is how we as individuals conduct ourselves through life in the context of our circumstances. Indeed, there IS no magical way to wash away your sins - if there was, it would be a tremendous cheat.

God has given us free will and it is up to us how to use it.

Of course, this raises the question of Heaven and Hell and indeed judgement. Progressive Christianity-wise, there is a lot of discussion here. My favourite theory is that your own heaven or hell is the next life that you lead as God's child, residing within His creation. Basically, judged reincarnation. Even within this working theory, there is much to ponder. Is it God who individually judges us? Do we judge ourselves? Are we individual units of life forms, or is there a life energy that gets put into a big melting pot? What is meant by "eternal" life? Is time cyclical? How does it apply in spiritual terms?

Things of this nature are never easy.



Rich::

 

[JoyG]

I didn't know that different denominations had different commandments.

eta: We lump your first seven into the first one, basically. I honestly didn't know some people had 17 commandments. What are you, anyway?

I just found out recently about the different commandment thing myself. I was very surprised.

Those aren't 17 commandments, they are the verses of the Bible...I tried to outline where the Commandments start in parenthesis...some of them continue onto the next sentence/verse hence the numbers up to 17.

I'm a Baptist.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

You really know how to push the envelope Joe.
Yes God has changed many people and their ways. To say or try to mesh into this message that homosexual individuals "have seen the light and the error of their ways is as insane as to say I joined a church and they taught me I was wrong to be hetrosexual.
That way in thinking is as bad as trying to say you have a right to be a bigot!

I'm pushing the envelope? God changes us based on His Word.

Many homosexuals have changed their ways. Nothing "insane" about it.

 

[JoyG]

Is Jenny still around?

Maybe she can tell us what the Jewish interpretation of the 10 Commandments are. What do the Jewish 10 consist of?

Joy

 

[MouseWorshipin]

What is meant by "eternal" life? Is time cyclical? How does it apply in spiritual terms?

Things of this nature are never easy.
Rich::

No beginning and no end. Like a number line. That's what they taught us in 1st grade, and it is still the best explanation, I think.