Is anything selling?

[sleepymouse]

I have only been looking for contracts to purchase for a month but am noticing that the number of contracts for sale has been hovering around 2700. Maybe buyers and sellers are beginning to balance as prices come down? It will be interesting to see if that number decreases as we enter spring.

 

[kilik64]

I have only been looking for contracts to purchase for a month but am noticing that the number of contracts for sale has been hovering around 2700. Maybe buyers and sellers are beginning to balance as prices come down? It will be interesting to see if that number decreases as we enter spring.

Could be some people pulling their contact off the market too along with the sales being completed.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Could be some people pulling their contact off the market too along with the sales being completed.

I think as we move through into spring, the somewhat knee-jerk rection to unload contracts will settle down, and those who truly felt they needed out will be out. Those who had listed their contracts, but aren't facing any or lesser risk, and those who can still enjoy the use of their points or don't mind renting them out, will either leave the contracts listed at a higher list price, or simply pull them.

 

[sndral]

I have only been looking for contracts to purchase for a month but am noticing that the number of contracts for sale has been hovering around 2700. Maybe buyers and sellers are beginning to balance as prices come down? It will be interesting to see if that number decreases as we enter spring.

Just under a year ago that number was 1500, 2 years ago it was just a couple of hundred listings https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...00-for-all-walt-disney-world-resorts-combined. The number of listings has been drifting up for awhile, who knows whether this is the peak.

 

[Brian Noble]

Timeshare resales are seasonal. Late Fall/early Winter tends to be a buyer's market. By Spring/early Summer the balance shifts to the sellers. Those are both subject to larger underlying forces, but it does tend to work out that way.

I think the absolute number is more a reflection of the underlying, but there will be a little bit of seasonal retrenchment in the next few months.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Just under a year ago that number was 1500, 2 years ago it was just a couple of hundred listings https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...00-for-all-walt-disney-world-resorts-combined. The number of listings has been drifting up for awhile, who knows whether this is the peak.

While not suggesting there aren't market pressure components at play, it can't be ignored that every year, the sheer number of points and contracts in existence grows, so even if the percentage of points up for resale at any given point remains static, the number of points/contracts available to be listed will increase proportionately.

Clearly, they haven't doubled the number of points in the last two years, but it is a growing number. I also think that there are a growing number of original or early owners that are now aging out, and the aging out number will also grow as total points/contracts grow.

 

[luvdisneyland]

Not sure how you define ‘small’, but of the dozen or so DVC brokers Fidelity (https://www.fidelityrealestate.com/brand/disney-vacation-club/) is currently the second largest. According to the search engine I use, there are 2689 DVC resale listings, Fidelity has 452 of them - 16%. The largest broker, the site sponsor, (https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/about-us/) has 791 listings - 29%.
I’ve never read that Fidelity was known for underpricing their listings, so I compared their current BLT asking prices to the largest broker, Fidelity is asking $145 - $182 for BLT, DVC Resale Market is asking $142 - $210 for BLT.
I assume brokers/agents suggest list prices to sellers, but that ultimately the seller decides whether to follow the broker’s advice & how high or low they want to list at, but I’ve not sold any of my contracts so .

It is well known that Fidelity underprices their listings, almost every thread about purchasing talks about how they have the best deals/ and they are the cheapest, etc.. Many mentions of reluctantly "dealing with them" because the prices are so good. I'm surprised that this is news to anyone here.

 

[tom1944]

It is well known that Fidelity underprices their listings, almost every thread about purchasing talks about how they have the best deals/ and they are the cheapest, etc.. Many mentions of reluctantly "dealing with them" because the prices are so good. I'm surprised that this is news to anyone here.

I am not sure they underprice them as much as they price them to sell quickly within the market environment.

If they underpriced them you would see some of the contracts being purchased and flipped.

 

[luvdisneyland]

So Fidelity is important for several reasons. They actually have the 2nd largest number is contracts listed on the market, with a market share of almost 17%, and Fidelity is who Disney sends people too when they inquire about selling their contracts.

Yes, that is how they get away with underpricing the contracts, which as a seller, I find to be wrong. They take advactange of the fact that when someone calls Disney, they are given Fidelity's info and the unsuspecting seller calls and leaves money on the table. If someone is calling Disney they are typically older or not tech savvy, so they have no idea what their contract is really worth or what options they have. As a seller I find this sad and infurriating. Having 16% of the market is small and reinforces my point about not using their numbers to gague what true market value is. I realize there are alot of very passionatie buyers out there dying for a DVC Crash, I don't get it... but you do you...

 

[luvdisneyland]

I just saw a BLT contract @ $145pp for 125 points for my correct UY. Unfortunately I cant make an offer until after June since I would need to put up one of my AKV contracts shortly afterwards ( have a room booked for June using points from the contract) if my offer was accepted to be able to "afford" it.

Question for you, if you don't mind me asking.. when you sell your AK to buy BLT, are you going to list with Fidelity or one of the other brokers that will likely get you more $ for the contract?

 

[luvdisneyland]

I am not sure they underprice them as much as they price them to sell quickly within the market environment.

If they underpriced them you would see some of the contracts being purchased and flipped.

You are absolutely correct, and I know of several investors who do just that- buy from them, rent out the points and flip.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Having 16% of the market is small and reinforces my point about not using their numbers to gague what true market value is. I realize there are alot of very passionatie buyers out there dying for a DVC Crash, I don't get it... but you do you...

Gonna regret wading into this, but how do you figure 16% is a small market share? Assuming there were only 7 resale brokers in total, selling DVC, anywhere, you’d see a 16% share of spread evenly, whereas there are many more than that.

As an aside, Volkswagen Audi Group, the largest car manufacturer in the world has a 2.4% US market share, and the biggest share of the US auto market is held by GM at…… 17%. (Both Ford and Toyota both have LESS than 16% market share).

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Question for you, if you don't mind me asking.. when you sell your AK to buy BLT, are you going to list with Fidelity or one of the other brokers that will likely get you more $ for the contract?

I personally list with the company that takes the lowest commission. It’s not fidelity, but they are not that off. The brokers are completely irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. It’s the title company that matters. Jeffrey Sweet is the best title company to go with. Hands down. But the buyer gets to choose title unless the seller pays closing or part. Brokers never use Jeffrey sweet unless “forced” by the buyer, because he doesn’t do kick backs to the broker.

 

[luvdisneyland]

Gonna regret wading into this, but how do you figure 16% is a small market share? Assuming there were only 7 resale brokers in total, selling DVC, anywhere, you’d see a 16% share of spread evenly, whereas there are many more than that.

As an aside, Volkswagen Audi Group, the largest car manufacturer in the world has a 2.4% US market share, and the biggest share of the US auto market is held by GM at…… 17%. (Both Ford and Toyota both have LESS than 16% market share).

What I was referring to is if they are even 20% of the market, that means just that, it doesn't make up the majority of the sales as 80% of the other sales are not with Fidelity, meaning they are not an accurate guage of pricing.

 

[luvdisneyland]

I personally list with the company that takes the lowest commission. It’s not fidelity, but they are not that off. The brokers are completely irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. It’s the title company that matters. Jeffrey Sweet is the best title company to go with. Hands down. But the buyer gets to choose title unless the seller pays closing or part. Brokers never use Jeffrey sweet unless “forced” by the buyer, because he doesn’t do kick backs to the broker.

I actually had Sweet close one of my purchases several years ago ( with the sponsor) and they were wonderful. I didn't ask for them, it was a nice. I'd be careful with saying brokers don't want to use them because they don't give kick backs, you are inferring that the other title companies do and that is illegal. I would also disagree that the agencey you list with is irrevelant, as were discussing, Fidelity will price the contract for less than what you can very likely get elsewhere.

I'm a PA and work in high volume medical sales, and the advise of going with the cheapest is a terrible and extremely short sighted way to handle an asset worth thousands of dollars. You get what you pay for....

 

[sndral]

It is well known that Fidelity underprices their listings, almost every thread about purchasing talks about how they have the best deals/ and they are the cheapest, etc.. Many mentions of reluctantly "dealing with them" because the prices are so good. I'm surprised that this is news to anyone here.

Fidelity has it’s issues, which are oft reported here, but I more typically read about their poor communication & messing up the number of points advertised.
I’m surprised that anyone is claiming DVC refers people to Fidelity, since numerous folks - including you - have reported they don’t anymore.

Don't believe everything you hear I had a deal that didn't go though ( not because of me) and they were very unresponsive and honestly, didn't seem to know what they were doing. A while back when I contacted Disney about selling my contracts, they said that they were "no longer endorsing Fidelity, or anyone else".

Yes, that is how they get away with underpricing the contracts, which as a seller, I find to be wrong. They take advactange of the fact that when someone calls Disney, they are given Fidelity's info and the unsuspecting seller calls and leaves money on the table. If someone is calling Disney they are typically older or not tech savvy, so they have no idea what their contract is really worth or what options they have. As a seller I find this sad and infurriating. Having 16% of the market is small and reinforces my point about not using their numbers to gague what true market value is. I realize there are alot of very passionatie buyers out there dying for a DVC Crash, I don't get it... but you do you...

For the record, I’m sitting pat w/ my points & neither a buyer or a seller. I like the accommodations my points give me at the two resorts I own. I just think that data is important when incorrect factual assertions are made.

 

[luvdisneyland]

Fidelity has it’s issues, which are oft reported here, but I more typically read about their poor communication & messing up the number of points advertised.
I’m surprised that anyone is claiming DVC refers people to Fidelity, since numerous folks - including you - have reported they don’t anymore.



For the record, I’m sitting pat w/ my points & neither a buyer or a seller. I like the accommodations my points give me at the two resorts I own. I just think that data is important when incorrect factual assertions are made.

In response to this quote:
"Fidelity has it’s issues, which are oft reported here, but I more typically read about their poor communication & messing up the number of points advertised.
I’m surprised that anyone is claiming DVC refers people to Fidelity, since numerous folks - including you - have reported they don’t anymore."

I have never EVER stated that Disney no longer refers to Fidelity, I have no idea who they are currently referring to, so please don't quote me on somehting I never said. And your comment about Fidelitys "issues" is my exact point, people buy with them despite numerous problems because they want that "deal".

Lastly, I don't know who (which company) you are referring to here, but again, if it is Fidelity, it is illustrating my point:
"Don't believe everything you hear I had a deal that didn't go though ( not because of me) and they were very unresponsive and honestly, didn't seem to know what they were doing. A while back when I contacted Disney about selling my contracts, they said that they were "no longer endorsing Fidelity, or anyone else".

So I am not sure how to address this, probably best not to anyway. Have a great day.

 

[Redheadprincess]

Yes, that is how they get away with underpricing the contracts, which as a seller, I find to be wrong. They take advactange of the fact that when someone calls Disney, they are given Fidelity's info and the unsuspecting seller calls and leaves money on the table. If someone is calling Disney they are typically older or not tech savvy, so they have no idea what their contract is really worth or what options they have. As a seller I find this sad and infurriating. Having 16% of the market is small and reinforces my point about not using their numbers to gague what true market value is. I realize there are alot of very passionatie buyers out there dying for a DVC Crash, I don't get it... but you do you...

It isn't necessarily that they undervalue the contracts, others could overvalue them. All these DVC contracts are really valued at what people are willing to pay for them. Right now it seems that most buyers do not want to pay what most sellers want.

 

[sndral]

…
[I have never EVER stated that Disney no longer refers to Fidelity, I have no idea who they are currently referring to, so please don't quote me on somehting I never said.

Post 23, p. 2 of this thread is where the no longer referring to Fidelity quote came from. https://www.disboards.com/threads/buying-resale-through-fidelity-timeshares.3529441/
& post 149 of the current thread is where the quote about DVC referring non tech savvy people to Fidelity is from.
I think in any market downturn sellers have trouble accepting that the market has turned & that good agents/brokers are able to explain that reality to their sellers, I’ve not seen any evidence that one brokerage in the DVC realm is any better or worse than any other in terms of pricing to sell - the listings are all over the map at all of them. I mean all points at any given resort are the same give or take big/small contract, loaded v. stripped - so a $50 price difference for the same resort at the same agency let alone between different brokers makes no sense to me.

 

[Cfabar1]

The real issue is that sellers are not willing to live in reality. They were convinced in many instances that this was an “asset” that had “value”…. They were told “DVC is the exception to every other timeshare”…. The fact is, it is a great way to pre-pay for vacations, and it is unlikely to go to zero like some other timeshares, but it isn’t an investment like an iBond or Index Fund…