Is anyone getting as turned off as I am?

[JanaDee]

I was being ironic, by way of being rhetorical. We stay away from specifics because each specific idea can be debated on merit. Vague ideas like "Disney needs to add new attractions?" Not so much.

Disney receives tons of feedback, from multiple sources. It relies on actual data in deciding where to allocate money. We rely on anecdote (on which no agreement exists, much less consensus), which we think if aggregated at this infinitesimal forum level somehow equals data. It doesn't.

The minute the next big attraction gets announced, this forum will be flooded with those who strongly agree, those who strongly disagree, and the dozens of levels in between - all certain they represent a plurality, all certain that their group holds the keys to success.

WDW arose from a swamp, without much input from those it would need to appeal to. It has been successful in adapting to changes demanded by its market and it will continue to.

You got MDX and FP+ instead of some new attraction because that's what the analysis concludes is needed.

Success is based on satisfaction, and if you're not satisfied, you now know where you fit in the 80/20.

Sometimes analysis can be wrong.

 

[AmyB2006]

Most of us on "the boards" are very dedicated Disney fans. We are not, nor should we think we are, representative of what the average Disney park goer thinks.

One thing that is very true is that people are more vocal when they have something to complain about. So don't think that because there are a few posts about how FP+ sucks that there is not an equal number of people who love it. Truth is, the only one who knows or will know that for sure is Disney.

None of us know if this will lose Disney customers or gain them customers, or equal out. Vocal Disboard members are still not the majority.

I agree. I think sometimes when people see people complain here or even on FB, that it must mean "everyone" is disenchanted with Disney, and it's simply not true.

Not saying they aren't losing customers/fans, but I don't think it will ever be the majority.

 

[OtherScott]

When I look at the posts here and blogs on other sites, FP+ is getting a lot of attention. I think it would be safe to say that most of the questions on the theme park forum are about FP+.

I also believe FP+ is confusing and complicated. There are posters who love FP+ and claim that it's easy peasy, but this is after they have learned how to use the MDE app. An example is booking FP's for the attractions you want and then going back in and changing all of the times.

If FP+ were so magical and wonderful, why does it require a massive team of support personnel? I wonder how easy people would think it was if Disney cut their IT support CM's in half? FP+ will never be user friendly and glitch free. So Disney will always have to provide a lot of support. This is a cost that will never be substantially reduced. And from all of the changes Disney is making, maximizing profits is their goal.

I just don't think FP+ is here to stay.

Ain't goin' nowhere.

Legacy was much more complicated "to use." Yes, it was easy for those who used it, learned what they could accomplish between pull and return. But for the majority, they didn't use it.

End of day we're comparing a system that is difficult for some to make adjustments to one where no adjustments were possible. 5 minutes at any mall/restaurant/trip down highway will confirm system built on smart device interface will succeed. Once mom hands over planning to 6 year old, most problems will evaporate.

 

[Suvadoo]

Between WDW and US there's always something new going on in addition to the old favorites!

Yeah, there are all kinds of new and wonderful changes at WDW. Disney just announced another ride closure: Hollywood Backlot Tour is being axed.
They're placing the Frozen Trading Post in the area. So, no new attractions, just a new gift shop. Hey maybe they'll build a new restaurant!

So as of today, they've deleted Hollywood Backlot, Mo’Rockin, The Spirit of America Fife and Drum Corps, Off Kilter, The World Showcase Players, Maelstrom, and American Idol Experience. I realize that these aren't headline attractions, but Disney is eliminated things from the 2 parks that are the most lacking in attractions and entertainment.

 

[mesaboy2]

Ain't goin' nowhere.

Legacy was much more complicated "to use." Yes, it was easy for those who used it, learned what they could accomplish between pull and return. But for the majority, they didn't use it.

End of day we're comparing a system that is difficult for some to make adjustments to one where no adjustments were possible. 5 minutes at any mall/restaurant/trip down highway will confirm system built on smart device interface will succeed. Once mom hands over planning to 6 year old, most problems will evaporate.

I find this position beyond laughable.

 

[OtherScott]

I find this position beyond laughable.

With your experience, makes sense. It doesn't matter to music what the return times were because We knew the parks. We knew what we could do in between.

Most never used it.

 

[Suvadoo]

Ain't goin' nowhere.
End of day we're comparing a system that is difficult for some to make adjustments to one where no adjustments were possible. 5 minutes at any mall/restaurant/trip down highway will confirm system built on smart device interface will succeed. Once mom hands over planning to 6 year old, most problems will evaporate.

You seem to ignore the very real fact that FP+ requires a battalion of IT support. Disney is interested in the bottom line. If FP+ continues to require the current amount of IT support, do you honestly believe they will keep it? FP+ is a black hole that continues to consume massive amounts of money. Eventually, the money required to support the system will dry up.

Also, your flippant remark about Mom and the 6 year old is both laughable and offensive. Does the 6 year old have the innate tribal knowledge that FP+ requires to reserve attractions? NO!

 

[mesaboy2]

With your experience, makes sense. It doesn't matter to music what the return times were because We knew the parks. We knew what we could do in between.

Most never used it.

My experience has little to do with my opinion. You are connecting two dots another poster with the same position did recently--equating availability with ease-of-use. The two have nothing to do with each other.

You seem to ignore the very real fact that FP+ requires a battalion of IT support. Disney is interested in the bottom line. If FP+ continues to require the current amount of IT support, do you honestly believe they will keep it? FP+ is a black hole that continues to consume massive amounts of money. Eventually, the money required to support the system will dry up.

Also, your flippant remark about Mom and the 6 year old is both laughable and offensive. Does the 6 year old have the innate tribal knowledge that FP+ requires to reserve attractions? NO!

Yes, as long as profits are perceived to be up because of it.

 

[Bullseye]

Yeah, there are all kinds of new and wonderful changes at WDW. Disney just announced another ride closure: Hollywood Backlot Tour is being axed.
They're placing the Frozen Trading Post in the area. So, no new attractions, just a new gift shop. Hey maybe they'll build a new restaurant!

So as of today, they've deleted Hollywood Backlot, Mo’Rockin, The Spirit of America Fife and Drum Corps, Off Kilter, The World Showcase Players, Maelstrom, and American Idol Experience. I realize that these aren't headline attractions, but Disney is eliminated things from the 2 parks that are the most lacking in attractions and entertainment.

Yeah that's a drag. A lot of those things are the things that make those parks special. That being said, none of them are deal breakers for us. In the past ten years that we have been going there have been large and small changes at both groups of parks. Both additions and subtractions. I'm not one of the "experts" on these boards that can retort your contention by itemizing all the things WDW has added over the past 5 or 10 years. All I can tell you is the scale hasn't tipped far enough for us to not want to go to WDW anymore. Overall we still find WDW and US to be great vacation fun. It's still only costing us about $45 dollars a day per person to go to the park and for what you get, it's well worth it!

 

[carlyle688]

Eventually, the money required to support the system will dry up.

I'm still convinced this is part of the reason they have cut out so much entertainment. Gotta find the money somewhere.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm still convinced this is part of the reason they have cut out so much entertainment. Gotta find the money somewhere.

I'm with you on that.

 

[clsteve]

I'm still convinced this is part of the reason they have cut out so much entertainment. Gotta find the money somewhere.

And that's the funny thing - there's plenty of money. Gobs, gobs, and gobs of it.

Revenue and to some extent profitability aren't the issues - they're rolling in the dough.

The issues are their projections - what they've told the Street as far as top line rev, guest spend and collated expense for this FY which is ending very soon.....

Must meet those projections - of course!

(a little Robo plagiarism in the last line, but it just fits...)

 

[Suvadoo]

My experience has little to do with my opinion. You are connecting two dots another poster with the same position did recently--equating availability with ease-of-use. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Yes, as long as profits are perceived to be up because of it.

Are the profits really up or is this more Disney propaganda? Aren't the alleged increased profits attributed to the Magic Bands and people just using the band for purchases? If Disney dumped FP+, but retained MDE and Magic Bands, wouldn't they continue to see the same profits? IMO the FP+ portion of MDE is what's costing Disney the most money.

 

[AmyB2006]

So as of today, they've deleted Hollywood Backlot, Mo’Rockin, The Spirit of America Fife and Drum Corps, Off Kilter, The World Showcase Players, Maelstrom, and American Idol Experience. I realize that these aren't headline attractions, but Disney is eliminated things from the 2 parks that are the most lacking in attractions and entertainment.

Maybe they're doing that to make way for newer, bigger and better???


Here's to hoping.

 

[mesaboy2]

Are the profits really up or is this more Disney propaganda? Aren't the alleged increased profits attributed to the Magic Bands and people just using the band for purchases? If Disney dumped FP+, but retained MDE and Magic Bands, wouldn't they continue to see the same profits? IMO the FP+ portion of MDE is what's costing Disney the most money.

Excellent questions all, and why I used the word "perceived".

 

[Suvadoo]

Maybe they're doing that to make way for newer, bigger and better???


Here's to hoping.

I hope you're right, but based on their track record the new attractions will be a long time coming.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I've always thought it was clear that their goal has been to get more people on site, longer stays and committed to being in the parks. And I've thought for a long time they simply were not giving enough incentives to lure more people in.

As a dedicated on site guest- I'm more than happy to see them sweeten the pot a little.

As far as them sweetening the pot for onsite, be careful what you wish for on that. The more they differentiate their onsite properties from the offsite competition, the more they will be able to charge for their rooms. I was surprised that they didn't use FP+ to do this, but maybe the capacity wasn't there to give extra FPs to onsite without completely driving away offsite.

 

[OtherScott]

My experience has little to do with my opinion. You are connecting two dots another poster with the same position did recently--equating availability with ease-of-use. The two have nothing to do eacch other

I said nothing about availability.

FP was difficult to use. You found this beyond laughable. I suggested you thought this because your experience said otherwise. I suggested actual use (most didn't use) supports the point that it was difficult to use.

And somehow I'm talking about availability?

Difficult to use includes "difficult to understand" but isn't limited to that. I knew how to use it but return times sometimes made it difficult to use, especially when one of my kids was less than pleasant or one of my in laws legs started cramping.

 

[Disneyhappy]

Have I become turned off by Disney? The answer for this fan of over 40 years who visited the park as a child before it was officially open is... a disappointing yes.

We still love WDW and are squeezing 4 trips in one year only because of our annual pass which we are allowing to expire at the end of November. I'm glad folks are enjoying FP+ but it has been the deal breaker for us. We were in the process of purchasing additional DVC points until our first MB and FP+ trip last November. Our having to plan attraction times 60 days out is too much hyper planning. Maybe because we are getting older. We had problems with MB on two trips. Our third and fourth are coming up in October and November so we shall see what happens. I hate to bring Universal into the mix but we also do an annual trip there which occurred over Labor Day weekend. (BTY - Diagon Alley is completely amazing and the best themed "land" in Orlando by far in our opinion.) A completely enjoyable and relaxing time with front of the line wait times less than our FP+ experiences. After November, we are trying DL for the first time (can't wait) using our DVC points as we will be in the area for a professional conference. After that trip, we will not be returning for 20 months when we are taking the twins down for their first trip. Normally, we would make at least 4 trips in this 20 month period of time. (Maybe we will get the itch and change our minds. )

Our personal and work community know us as the Orlando theme park experts so we are continuously asked for help and advice. This is no exaggeration... since last November, I have recommended Universal to 7 families who solicited our advise on WDW, 5 of whom dropped WDW plans for Universal. Four of them had a great time and I am waiting to hear back from the 5th family upon their return in October. I have to suspect that Disney parks must be feeling some affects of all of the similarly disappointed fans out there. I say this totally ignorant of their new guest numbers which may be offsetting the disappointed fans who are cutting back like us. Again, for us it is the hyper planning, issues with MB and FP+ and the longer lines we experienced in both FP+ and standby lines (on top of our cumulative perceived negative changes over the years. I don't mind a different experience but I do mind a lower quality experience. Hopefully they will have it figured out in the next 2 years and change our minds when we take the twins. Adding additional attractions t increase park capacity wouldn't hurt either. There are too few attractions for the number of guests in the parks.

 

[Suvadoo]

Have I become turned off by Disney? The answer for this fan of over 40 years who visited the park as a child before it was officially open is... a disappointing yes.

We still love WDW and are squeezing 4 trips in one year only because of our annual pass which we are allowing to expire at the end of November. I'm glad folks are enjoying FP+ but it has been the deal breaker for us. We were in the process of purchasing additional DVC points until our first MB and FP+ trip last November. Our having to plan attraction times 60 days out is too much hyper planning. Maybe because we are getting older. We had problems with MB on two trips. Our third and fourth are coming up in October and November so we shall see what happens. I hate to bring Universal into the mix but we also do an annual trip there which occurred over Labor Day weekend. (BTY - Diagon Alley is completely amazing and the best themed "land" in Orlando by far in our opinion.) A completely enjoyable and relaxing time with front of the line wait times less than our FP+ experiences. After November, we are trying DL for the first time (can't wait) using our DVC points as we will be in the area for a professional conference. After that trip, we will not be returning for 20 months when we are taking the twins down for their first trip. Normally, we would make at least 4 trips in this 20 month period of time. (Maybe we will get the itch and change our minds. )

Our personal and work community know us as the Orlando theme park experts so we are continuously asked for help and advice. This is no exaggeration... since last November, I have recommended Universal to 7 families who solicited our advise on WDW, 5 of whom dropped WDW plans for Universal. Four of them had a great time and I am waiting to hear back from the 5th family upon their return in October. I have to suspect that Disney parks must be feeling some affects of all of the similarly disappointed fans out there. I say this totally ignorant of their new guest numbers which may be offsetting the disappointed fans who are cutting back like us. Again, for us it is the hyper planning, issues with MB and FP+ and the longer lines we experienced in both FP+ and standby lines (on top of our cumulative perceived negative changes over the years. I don't mind a different experience but I do mind a lower quality experience. Hopefully they will have it figured out in the next 2 years and change our minds when we take the twins. Adding additional attractions t increase park capacity wouldn't hurt either. There are too few attractions for the number of guests in the parks.

I hope you love Disneyland as much as I do!! Your post is eloquent.