Is anyone getting as turned off as I am?

[DebbieB]

I keep seeing people say that there's going to be a parking fee at DTD, but where is that information coming from? The only parking fees I've seen are going to be for Valet.

The original poster replied on page 3 that it is just valet, they were in error.

I'm sorry, but legacy is always presented as being this simple - but it wasn't.

When you went to pull your first FP, you only knew the return time upon arrival at the attraction. That return time might be 20 minutes or 4 hours.

Obviously the former didn't present much a consideration, but the latter did.

I liked it, because I knew the parks like the back of my hand and was a quick study on how long it took to go other places, do other things.

But many don't, so they passed on it completely.

The problem with legacy was say you go to Soarin and the fastpass time available is 1:00 to 2:00. You have an ADR in France at 1:00. Now what? With FP+ you can pick your time to coordinate with your ADR's or other plans.

 

[mom2rtk]

The problem with legacy was say you go to Soarin and the fastpass time available is 1:00 to 2:00. You have an ADR in France at 1:00. Now what? With FP+ you can pick your time to coordinate with your ADR's or other plans.

You step aside for 10 minutes and wait until you get one for 2:00-3:00.

 

[DebbieB]

You step aside for 10 minutes and wait until you get one for 2:00-3:00.

In the situation we had, we had to wait about 45 minutes to get the time we wanted. That meant going all the way out of The Land, head out and do something else, come back, all the way downstairs in The Land. Waste of time.

 

[cakebaker]

In the situation we had, we had to wait about 45 minutes to get the time we wanted. That meant going all the way out of The Land, head out and do something else, come back, all the way downstairs in The Land. Waste of time.

And if you have to waste 45 minutes, you might as well be in the standby line. We wasted more time waiting for fp times to come up than anything else because we couldn't plan ahead of time what to do. So it would be all of us standing in the park discussing where to head next and what did we have time to do before our fp time. I suppose if you have kids you can tell them to clam up and do what they're told, but when it's all adults, everyone has an opinion and gets a say. Takes for...ever....

And in our case what invariably would happen is we would schedule our parks at home, for instance we'd plan on being out of HS by noon- head to Epcot in the late afternoon- but we couldn't get a fp time for one ride or the other till later in the afternoon. That plan just got shot out of the water.

That would run us late for going back to another park in the late afternoon and when we got there, fp would be sold out.

This way we know up front if we're going to have a problem with a fp rather than not know till we got to the park.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Who knows for sure what the real story is on guest satisfaction- but Disney parks are packed. It doesn't look like they're suffering any backlash yet.

The parks are packed. We can assume therefore that people still think the tickets are worth the price.

However, their hotels are running at 80% occupancy while offsite accommodations surround them and also do a decent business, even while charging a fraction of Disney prices. So that tells you something too.

They don't need (or even want!) more people in the parks, I totally agree with you. They want more people to spend more...stay onsite, pay for upcharge events, eat onsite, shopping, etc. That is the strategy now. That is why they built MDE/FPP. To lock people in. Same idea behind Magical Express.

 

[cakebaker]

The parks are packed. We can assume therefore that people still think the tickets are worth the price.

However, their hotels are running at 80% occupancy while offsite accommodations surround them and also do a decent business, even while charging a fraction of Disney prices. So that tells you something too.

They don't need (or even want!) more people in the parks, I totally agree with you. They want more people to spend more...stay onsite, pay for upcharge events, eat onsite, shopping, etc. That is the strategy now. That is why they built MDE/FPP. To lock people in. Same idea behind Magical Express.

I've always thought it was clear that their goal has been to get more people on site, longer stays and committed to being in the parks. And I've thought for a long time they simply were not giving enough incentives to lure more people in.

As a dedicated on site guest- I'm more than happy to see them sweeten the pot a little.

 

[mellyf]

Most aren't saying they are done. Many of the unhappy ones are taking a break, traveling elsewhere for now, and keeping plugged into a Disney forum to see if things get better.

Makes complete sense to me.

This. We love WDW, but not thrilled with what I've been reading for awhile now. I'm sure FP+ is fine for many, many people. I only schedule 2-3 ADRs during a trip because I don't like to be that scheduled on vacation...I'm sure not going to schedule my rides. And of course I realize no one would be forcing me to schedule rides, but the alternative is standing in line for everything. My husband and I loved getting there at rope drop (usually at the morning EMH), riding and re-riding our favorite rides-usually with FP-, and then leaving for our resort or another park by 11 or 12. When we go back to Disney, it will likely be Disneyland. For now, our next trip is a Universal-only trip in January.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Disney could lose every person on this board who complains about the new system or supposed lack of new attractions and I doubt they'd even feel it. It really is such a small minority that it's insignificant. Disney does studies and research all the time and while I'm not blinded by pixie dust enough to think they're just out to make me happy, I know they're out to make money.

They won't intentionally do anything they think will hurt their bottom line in the long run. They've been around a while, I don't suspect they've gotten stupid and don't know what a majority of people want from them. Their studies show that a majority of people who are actually going to the park like the changes and are happy with the parks as they currently are.

Will they lose a few due to nothing but fp+ or some other complaint I read on these boards? Maybe, but while there may be a lot of complaints, the vast majority of the complainers are still shucking out their money to Disney. You'll hear- "taking a break for a year or 2" , but those who say, "I'm done, we're never ever going back", are few and far between.

There's a fine line between loyal and fanatacism- some people are over the line and think that they know better than Disney how to run their business. I'm not sure Disney wants that guest anyway.

It's not a question of losing everyone on these boards. It's a question of losing the kind of loyal, repeat customer that we represent. And yes, they are definitely in danger of losing quite a lot of repeat business -- if they haven't already. The boards have been screaming that message very loudly and clearly for several months.

I'm not saying that the company is in trouble today. But, looking down the road, there are a lot of red flags that they ignore at their peril.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Disney's judgment sufficient on what to change but not on whether to change?

Once again, with feeling...specific armchair imagineering is a complete waste of time. They will NEVER take our opinions about upcoming developments. And, frankly, it bores me to tears.

Disney is getting tons of free and valuable feedback from these forums, without getting into specifics about which attractions should go in next.

Oh yes they can, if they can get the 80% to spend more and stay longer.

WDW seems to have shifted to the same principle Vegas adopted a few years ago after the economic downturn. They don't need 80 average, budget-minded guests if they have 20 "whales". The price to stay on site is already out of the average American's reach, the cost of the park passes continues to rise, the price of merchandise continues to rise, and these mysterious upsell events keep cropping up during regularly scheduled events, offering more, exclusive opportunities to those who are willing to pay more.

Oh no, they can't. You are turning business theory right on its head if you think anyone can afford to lose the 20%.

If that happened, the 80% (who account for 20% of the revenue) would suddenly have to spend five times more than they currently do, in order to make up for the shortfall. Maybe you can get people to open their wallets a little more...but a five fold increase? On what planet can these people suddenly afford to spend that much more?

And your Vegas comparison is just preposterous. You simple can't compare the theme park industry to the gambling industry, in which one "whale" could lose millions in one weekend at the gaming tables. Some billionaires might drop $50-$100 million in one year, making or breaking a casino's bottom line. There is simply nothing comparable to that in the theme park business.

 

[Ellwood970]

It's not a question of losing everyone on these boards. It's a question of losing the kind of loyal, repeat customer that we represent. And yes, they are definitely in danger of losing quite a lot of repeat business -- if they haven't already. The boards have been screaming that message very loudly and clearly for several months. I'm not saying that the company is in trouble today. But, looking down the road, there are a lot of red flags that they ignore at their peril.

Is Disney's golden age coming to an end? I cannot get over how a manager dressed in black (what a color to pick) wrangled around about my annual pass telling me it was not mine. With so many ipad clad managers dressed in black at the gates wrangling over tickets, well it says something to me about their flawed system.

 

[AJ1983]

Just for some background....
I live in Florida and have been going to Disney for over 40 years.
Recently, though, I've noticed changes that are turning me off to want to visit, or spend my money there.
For example: * the fastpass+ thing and having to plan before you go.
* ending the American Adventure Fife and Drum Corp. (and not replacing it with any other patriotic program)
* people reserving throwaway campsites at Fort Wilderness just to get their magic bands
*......and don't get me started on those!
* and now we're gonna have to start paying between 10 and 20 dollars just to park at Downtown Disney.
* oh, and Starbucks

The list goes on, but these are just a few at the tip of my fingers.
Sorry. Had to vent.

First of all, I am SO jealous that you live in Florida and have easy access to WDW! For me, its a 7 hour, $650 plane ride away

Anyway, to answer your question, no, I am not getting turned off Disney (I honestly don't think that could ever happen, as I have only been to Disney 3 times in 31 years).

I don't mind planning my FP+ because since I get to Disney so infrequently, I want to maximize my time there. Last year when we went (before FP+) I had our days scheduled based on lowest crowds etc...FP+ now guarantees me at least 3 attractions so in my opinion, it has made planning easier.

 

[maxiesmom]

It's not a question of losing everyone on these boards. It's a question of losing the kind of loyal, repeat customer that we represent. And yes, they are definitely in danger of losing quite a lot of repeat business -- if they haven't already. The boards have been screaming that message very loudly and clearly for several months.

I'm not saying that the company is in trouble today. But, looking down the road, there are a lot of red flags that they ignore at their peril.

Most of us on "the boards" are very dedicated Disney fans. We are not, nor should we think we are, representative of what the average Disney park goer thinks.

One thing that is very true is that people are more vocal when they have something to complain about. So don't think that because there are a few posts about how FP+ sucks that there is not an equal number of people who love it. Truth is, the only one who knows or will know that for sure is Disney.

None of us know if this will lose Disney customers or gain them customers, or equal out. Vocal Disboard members are still not the majority.

 

[tim123]

I accidentally clicked on this thread, instead of the one below it, and I'm glad I did. I watched the whole thing. Thank you for the smile.

You are very welcome!

 

[crostorfer]

Once again, with feeling...specific armchair imagineering is a complete waste of time. They will NEVER take our opinions about upcoming developments. And, frankly, it bores me to tears.

Disney is getting tons of free and valuable feedback from these forums, without getting into specifics about which attractions should go in next.



Oh no, they can't. You are turning business theory right on its head if you think anyone can afford to lose the 20%.

If that happened, the 80% (who account for 20% of the revenue) would suddenly have to spend five times more than they currently do, in order to make up for the shortfall. Maybe you can get people to open their wallets a little more...but a five fold increase? On what planet can these people suddenly afford to spend that much more?

And your Vegas comparison is just preposterous. You simple can't compare the theme park industry to the gambling industry, in which one "whale" could lose millions in one weekend at the gaming tables. Some billionaires might drop $50-$100 million in one year, making or breaking a casino's bottom line. There is simply nothing comparable to that in the theme park business.

I wasn't comparing Disney to the gambling industry, I was comparing resort, dining, and entertainment options going after a higher end clientele who are interested in luxury and exclusivity, and not bothering with the lower middle class who don't, and can't, spend near as much on resort, dining, and entertainment. They are very much the same.

They've not lost me completely, I'm not running around screaming that I'm done, but I'm no longer staying on site at WDW with a 5 day ticket, I'm staying at Universal and spending a hard ticket party at the MK. In March we are skipping Orlando and heading west to Disneyland. Next fall, who knows? The next spring we're going to Hawaii. They haven't lost me completely, but they certainly don't "have" me anymore.

 

[OtherScott]

Disney is getting tons of free and valuable feedback from these forums, without getting into specifics about which attractions should go in next.

I was being ironic, by way of being rhetorical. We stay away from specifics because each specific idea can be debated on merit. Vague ideas like "Disney needs to add new attractions?" Not so much.

Disney receives tons of feedback, from multiple sources. It relies on actual data in deciding where to allocate money. We rely on anecdote (on which no agreement exists, much less consensus), which we think if aggregated at this infinitesimal forum level somehow equals data. It doesn't.

The minute the next big attraction gets announced, this forum will be flooded with those who strongly agree, those who strongly disagree, and the dozens of levels in between - all certain they represent a plurality, all certain that their group holds the keys to success.

WDW arose from a swamp, without much input from those it would need to appeal to. It has been successful in adapting to changes demanded by its market and it will continue to.

You got MDX and FP+ instead of some new attraction because that's what the analysis concludes is needed.

Success is based on satisfaction, and if you're not satisfied, you now know where you fit in the 80/20.

 

[cakebaker]

WDW arose from a swamp, without much input from those who it would need to appeal to. It has been successful in adapting to changes demanded by its market and it will continue to.

You got MDX and FP+ instead of some new attraction because that's what the analysis concludes is needed.

Success is based on satisfaction, and if you're not satisfied, you now know where you fit in the 80/20.

That's pretty much it.

I think many of the complaints I read on these boards aren't a matter of Disney making some awful choice that is going to run them into the ground. I think it's changes made that, while they work for the guests Disney wants to attract, increases their revenue and makes their company more profitable, they don't work for some guests anymore.

Disney just doesn't fit them anymore- they want a park with more thrill rides. They want a park that lets them plan on the fly. They want a park that doesn't penalize them for not staying on site.

Those wants don't translate into bad decisions by Disney in not giving them them what they want. It translates into- Disney isn't their best choice. If it's ill fitting enough, they'll quit coming. But for every family that doesn't come, there will be one that came because of what Disney did- and they'll stay longer and they'll spend more. Disney wins.

That's not to say every decision Disney makes is perfect. But there aren't many you can point to that were monumental disasters and in the long term, would destroy them.

 

[Suvadoo]

When I look at the posts here and blogs on other sites, FP+ is getting a lot of attention. I think it would be safe to say that most of the questions on the theme park forum are about FP+.

I also believe FP+ is confusing and complicated. There are posters who love FP+ and claim that it's easy peasy, but this is after they have learned how to use the MDE app. An example is booking FP's for the attractions you want and then going back in and changing all of the times.

If FP+ were so magical and wonderful, why does it require a massive team of support personnel? I wonder how easy people would think it was if Disney cut their IT support CM's in half? FP+ will never be user friendly and glitch free. So Disney will always have to provide a lot of support. This is a cost that will never be substantially reduced. And from all of the changes Disney is making, maximizing profits is their goal.

I just don't think FP+ is here to stay.

 

[Bullseye]

We're still digging WDW! FP+ and magic bands were an improvement in our minds. We're in the process of increasing our DVC points right now. One of the best things we did to keep things fresh was a few years ago we started cutting back on WDW days and filling in with US/IOA days. Between WDW and US there's always something new going on in addition to the old favorites!

 

[mesaboy2]

When I look at the posts here and blogs on other sites, FP+ is getting a lot of attention. I think it would be safe to say that most of the questions on the theme park forum are about FP+.

I also believe FP+ is confusing and complicated. There are posters who love FP+ and claim that it's easy peasy, but this is after they have learned how to use the MDE app. An example is booking FP's for the attractions you want and then going back in and changing all of the times.

If FP+ were so magical and wonderful, why does it require a massive team of support personnel? I wonder how easy people would think it was if Disney cut their IT support CM's in half? FP+ will never be user friendly and glitch free. So Disney will always have to provide a lot of support. This is a cost that will never be substantially reduced. And from all of the changes Disney is making, maximizing profits is their goal.

I just don't think FP+ is here to stay.

I agree with your entire post--except the last sentence.

 

[cakebaker]

When I look at the posts here and blogs on other sites, FP+ is getting a lot of attention. I think it would be safe to say that most of the questions on the theme park forum are about FP+.

I also believe FP+ is confusing and complicated. There are posters who love FP+ and claim that it's easy peasy, but this is after they have learned how to use the MDE app. An example is booking FP's for the attractions you want and then going back in and changing all of the times.

If FP+ were so magical and wonderful, why does it require a massive team of support personnel? I wonder how easy people would think it was if Disney cut their IT support CM's in half? FP+ will never be user friendly and glitch free. So Disney will always have to provide a lot of support. This is a cost that will never be substantially reduced. And from all of the changes Disney is making, maximizing profits is their goal.

I just don't think FP+ is here to stay.

I took a quick look at the 1st page on this forum- over 30 topics that had nothing to do with fp (at least in the title) and less than 5 that did.

Disney has invested a lot of money into this system- but they're not going to do away with it. They'll do things to improve it no doubt, but they aren't going to trash it.

People will get used to it. We humans just don't like change, but we are adaptable even though we're kicking and screaming every step of the way.