That article also says that if parents set clear expectations for grades and timeline for graduation the difference is eliminated.
Since they were toddlers I've found that when I'm CRYSTAL CLEAR about my expectations, things go more smoothly; in contrast, when I let that slip and I don't make my thought known, 'specially when they were small, things don't go as well. Thus, I'm not a bit surprised that students perform better when their parents are upfront about how they expect their children to perform in college.
The article also said that students whose parents pay for their education are more likely to graduate (the researcher postulates this might be because some fund-it-yourself students are forced to leave for financial reasons). Of course, it's hard to take any article seriously when it doesn't discuss its methology and doesn't give any statitstics. Makes it look like shoddy research.
I'd love to know where all these ungrateful kids are that are always mentioned? I've yet to meet any personally. If I was raising kids who were ungrateful, I wouldn't be stupid enough to pay for their college education. As long as my kids take college seriously, I will pay the bills.
Oh, I've met plenty of ungrateful kids -- I teach high school. I personally know kids who treat their parents like ATMs, kids who run the household, and kids who treat their parents as if they're dirt; however, this attitude doesn't suddenly develop when they're teens. Parents who have these kids nurture this behavior when they're small children, and then it turns against them when they're teens.
The kids in my own house have been raised to appreciate what they're given and to make the most of opportunities that come their way. If I had reason to think they
wouldn't take college seriously, I would insist upon them staying home and starting in communty college. Every parent should take an honest look at his or her child and determine whether that child is really ready to go to college and whether he is going to live up to your expectations; you don't have to guess what he's going to do in college -- just look at whether he's serious about his high school work and whether he appreciates what you're providing for him now.
Clark Howard says save and secure your retirement first. He doesn't say don't pay your child's college education.
True. By starting early and living beneath our means, we've been able to do both. Both were priorities.
From Day 1 we've told our kids that their ultimate goal should be to work for themselves.
That's good advice . . . for the right person, but it's far from a universal truth. Starting your own business can be very profitable, but many people -- me and my oldest daughter, for example -- simply do not have a business mindset. We would be horrible entrepreneurs! My youngest, on the other hand, does have that talent, and I could see her owning her own business. I'm encouraging them both to find paths that are well-suited to their abilities and are liable to provide them with stable employment for a lifetime -- but I certainly don't want either of them to think that they're making good or bad choices based upon whether they'll be in business or not.
Anyone who would continue to pay while their child majored in "Fraternity Parties" is not acting in the best interest of his or her child. I am paying for my daughter's college education but if she chose to party instead of study, I would no longer pay. It's a two way street. My child works hard in college and her daddy and I work(ed) hard to pay for it. If she failed to uphold her end of the deal, we would fail to pay. Quite simple really. My girl did great her first semester and I have every confidence that she will continue to do so because it matters- to her and to us.
Yes, we've approached college payments from the same standpoint. Our girls realize that the money we're spending on their college education didn't just appear -- it was hard earned and saved over the course of their lifetimes. We've told them that we have two BIG OVERRIDING expectations: 1) they'll honor the sacrafices that we've made by doing their best in college and working steadily towards graduation. 2) they'll do their dead-level best to give their children the same opportunity.
We only have one in college now, but she is BEYOND grateful that she'll be able to graduate without debt, and she has a 3.95 GPA at this point. She is
very aware that she's blessed to have this opportunity, and she's doing all she can to make the most of it. Our youngest is still in high school but seems have the self-same attitude.
I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous statemtent. All you know as a hiring manager is that they have a piece of paper. You have little to no idea about what transpired while they were getting it.
People who have degrees don't tend to put them down as "a piece of paper". Whether the student paid for his education or not, that "piece of paper" proves that the student stuck to a lengthy course of study and performed at a compotent level to earn that degree. A degree is a significant achievement, one that only about 25% of all American adults can claim.
As for the hiring manager not knowing anything beyond the fact a person has a degree, I'd assume that that manager would start by noting the degree, and then would move on to learning specifics about the individual in the interview.
A co-worker of mine, has two daughters. Her oldest was given 4 cars between high school and college . . . She and her husband have spoiled their kids rotten and given them everything.
That's idiotic parenting, but it's also pretty extreme. It goes far beyond paying for a kid's college expenses.
I said this before on another thread with the same people, so I'm sure they'll chime in and say they won't - but all the parents I know who've said they'd expect their children to totally pay their own way have ended up helping.
It's easy to say "go in the military" until your smart, talented, hard working child has absolutely no desire to do so. It's easy to say "get a part time job" until your child who has been working since age 13 is struggling to make ends meet. It's easy to say "go to the local community college" until your child has aced all his APs and the local school doesn't have anything to offer him. It's easy to say "live at home while you go to school" until you realize he'll be commuting FOUR hours a day to the nearest university. It's easy to say "he can work hard and get scholarships" until you see your honor student working his tail off and getting about 1/4 of the expense covered after a trillion essays and applications. It's easy to say "take out loans" until you realize they'll only give him about 5K (don't have exact number here) a year without a parent co-signing. It's easy to say "he'll get grants" until you realize the money YOU make will prevent him from doing so. And most of all, it's easy to say "they'll do better if they do it on their own" until you realize how HARD it is going to be on them and how EASY it will be for you to take the money you've always been spending on them that is now out of your budget and simply put it towards their education, thus HELPING them.
Helping your child doesn't mean you have to hand them a four year education on a platter and watch them barf it back out partying, it means you'll be willing to be part of the equation as long as they're working hard and doing their part. I don't think there is a single poster here who has advocated just handing over money blindly. Helping your child with school doesn't mean you're doing the horrific job of parenting described by MissManda in the post above.
PS - providing your child the use of a car, letting them live at home, feeding them, etc. IS helping.
True statements. Both of my girls are hard-working, but my oldest happens to have chosen a major in which scholarships abound (nursing) and she chose one of the less-expensive state universities. Her sister is likely to receive less in scholarship money (interested in business), and at this point I don't know what university she'll choose. This is a reflection of their personalities and choices -- not an indication that #1 worked harder than #2. We may end up paying more money for our second, but our goal is to get them both through college debt-free and with a degree that'll make it possible for them to find a stable job with a reasonable income.
Well said. I teach community college and a significant portion of my students are working their way through school. I see a lot of kids working 40+ hours, going to school in the evenings, then trying to fit in studying, homework, etc. They get burnt out, their grades suffer, and it is such a struggle. Many of them ending up not finishing because they just can't juggle the schedule or can't figure out how to make ends meet. College has become increasingly expensive. Tuition rises at a rate of 5-10% per year sometimes. It's incredibly hard for a working student to pay the bills without taking out significant loans, etc.
I was that student. Add in that I sometimes lived in unsafe places; it's only by the grace of God that nothing bad happened to me. I was sometimes hungry, and I occasionally had holes in the soles of my only shoes. I don't want my kids to have to go through that much.
If a kids is smart enough and works really hard someone will give them a free ride. Not every school - but a lot of really good ones give merit scholarships.
Having taught high school seniors for the past two decades, I have to say that this is blatantly false.
Often, a private college with financial aid, is cheaper than a public.
Again, having taught high school seniors for the past two decades, this is -- well, not blatantly false -- but very rarely true. It happens
just often enough that the story continues.
Who says you should delay your retirement or borrow or go into debt? We have a savings plan for our kids and each of them will have their money when its time. No need for DH and I to go broke over it and our retirement is just fine.
Yep, I could say the same thing. Admittedly, some good luck has played into it: We have healthy bodies, and we've not experienced unemployment or other financial setbacks. However, more of it has been hard work and planning: We both worked hard to earn degrees ourselves, and we have purposefully saved and lived beneath our means for years.
A college education is a privilege, not a right. It can also be financed.
A saying my husband and I toss about occasionally -- not necessarily about college, but about the "it can be financed" idea: If you can't afford it now, what makes you think you can afford payments AND INTEREST later?
Your strategy is to build character in your daughter through adversity, and send strong messages about capitalism and work ethic (i.e. no lemonade stand unless it is profitable). Ok by me.
My strategy is to build character in my daughters by providing a safe environment to play, experiment, be creative, and articulate their ideas (i.e. lemonade stand sounds fun, let's make a bunch of different-colored lemonades and talk about why). I anticipate zero discussions about money until they are pre-teens. Money as a topic stresses out little kids, who intuitively sense worry (if they keep talking about saving money, maybe there isn't enough? Maybe bad things could happen to Mommy and Daddy?) and they quietly stew in it with zero power to change the situation.
I think pre-teen is a little old to start talking money. We started working on money management about the time they started school. At first we compared prices on small items. I specifically remember my oldest wanting a tube of M&M miniss at the movies, and I told her that she could have one pack right then at the movies . . . or we could go to the grocery store after the movies, and for the same money she could buy probably 3 tubes. She couldn't believe I was right. Around middle school we started both kids on a clothing budget, and they quickly understood that there's no such thing as $75 jeans -- just jeans with $75 pricetags. These weren't stressful situations for them; rather, they began to understand that by being smart with their money, it could go much farther. They grasped these concepts early, and by high school they were ready to learn about credit/checking accounts and think about college costs. If I had it to do again, I'd do just the same things. This is one of the things we "got right".
For those who feel it is their obligation to pay for college for their kids, why are many of you only paying for undergrad but not grad school.
So many fields today require a Master's degree to be able to get a job. I realize not all do but a Bachelor's degree is a dime a dozen. It's comparable to what a high school diploma was years ago-expected. A Master's degree can really set an applicant apart from those with just a Bachelor's degree.
So why do you set your kids loose when it comes to grad school-isn't that part of your obligation too?
Fair question.
First, I disagree that "many fields" require a Master's degree today; according to the census, fewer than 10% of all Americans have a Master's degree. You might argue that the bar will be set higher for future generations, but as of today a Master's is a rarity. Furthermore, even for those who have advanced degrees, it's fairly common to get some experience in the field before they know exactly what Masters degree they want. Also, many employers pay a portion of a Masters. Most of all, though, a bachelor's is kind of "the standard" for getting one's foot in the door for a really good, professional job; thus, once the adult-child has attained that goal, he or she is capable of fending for himself financially.
You really do not know that my child will come out of school with $50K in student loan debt any more than I do.
No, but I do know that if I help my child with her college education costs, she has a better chance of coming out debt-free than someone who receives no financial assistance. All the hard work and struggle in the world can't force someone to give you a scholarship, and you can't be sure that you'll be the best.
I've frequently been on scholarship committees at school, and I can tell you that it's often a hard choice. So many qualified kids, only a few scholarships to hand out. Not long ago I was involved in one decision in which I know one of the kids very well personally, yet he wasn't the best candidate. I wanted to give it to him, I really did, but it wasn't the right choice.
Great parenting advice for everyone, however good students don't all get scholarships.
Well, except here on these boards.
Teaching requires a minimum of a masters in many places nowadays.
Not so much -- except in the Northeast and a few other places. Not so ironically, those are the same states that pay the highest salaries.
I would MUCH rather live in a small house and drive an older car and spend my days leisurely with my children than live in a giant house and drive a fancy car and be so busy with work that I had to hire people to clean my house, make my food, and raise my kids.
Dad has a masters + 20 hours, so he got more still. They were both elementary PE teachers in the same district.
