Is anyone else hugely entertained by the FP+ tier system test?

[Planogirl]

If roughly 50% of those who visit the Disney parks are offsite visitors, will FP+ really change that that much? Will those people be happy to commit to more expensive and smaller hotel rooms in order to get one headliner FP?

The new visitor might be but I can't imagine that those who go to WDW often will be particularly impressed with this. Of course I could be very wrong.

 

[mesaboy2]

If roughly 50% of those who visit the Disney parks are offsite visitors, will FP+ really change that that much? Will those people be happy to commit to more expensive and smaller hotel rooms in order to get one headliner FP?

The new visitor might be but I can't imagine that those who go to WDW often will be particularly impressed with this. Of course I could be very wrong.

I think this is a major flaw in Disney's logic behind FP+.

 

[bcrook]

Then wouldn't it make sense to include off-site guest in the pre-booking too? The way I see it on-site guest are already more committed to being in the park. How are they going to get the off-site guest to commit? It is hard for me to believe that they are losing high numbers of on-site guest to other theme parks. Sure, maybe a day or 2 here and there but why would someone pay the higher rate for a Disney room to visit other parks?

The original material from all Disney spokespeople said on and off site guests would have similar access. I think it is coming. The fastpasses are connected to tickets.

If off site guests weren't allowed pre booking, that would open up a lot of fastpasses to sell. But, there hasn't been any hint of this. Staggs outright said off site guests are important and will have access. These current tests are connected to on site rooms so CMs can coach you at check in. Although, the Kidani people couldn't tell me much a few weeks ago.

I still believe the "three free for all"Motto will be the end result. After that, there won't be much to hand out except at MK. It's those pesky local ap holders that provide the intrigue. How will Disney stop them from over booking? That mystery is still very much an enigma.

 

[bcrook]

If roughly 50% of those who visit the Disney parks are offsite visitors, will FP+ really change that that much? Will those people be happy to commit to more expensive and smaller hotel rooms in order to get one headliner FP?

The new visitor might be but I can't imagine that those who go to WDW often will be particularly impressed with this. Of course I could be very wrong.

Regular customers will be strung along with promises of new lands in the parks. The response to Harry potter London. Just hints of a Carsland, Star Wars land, a new restaurant keep us coming back for more.

Plus we have the wave of interactive queues and ride experiences. What are those hidden monitors at the end of small world going to do? . We must return. And someday the new mountain will open.

 

[that's nice]

I've been reading these threads for the last hour all from my balcony at AKL... (our first time staying in a Disney 'Deluxe' hotel) I feel lucky we are getting out of Dodge tomorrow morning. FP+ worked fairly well for our family, especially on Friday when we couldn't get out of our room fast enough and arrived at DHS at 10:30- just inside our first FP window for ToT. Do you know how good it felt walking into DHS with my DD7, DS2 (Mr. Cranky pants), DD5m knowing I had my ToT, RnRC, and TSM FPs already in our hands?

I booked all of our FP+ rides a few weeks ago using Disney's quirky website. We have been to WDW average 2x for the last 6 years. I can see where a tiered system might be beneficial especially to the 1st timers or guests that 'have no clue' Imaging booking your 3 FP+ reservations on IASM, Main St. Mickey, and the teacups? Walking through those shiny new FP+ entrances passing 10 people in the Standby line? Don't you think those people would get upset? However, to people who know what they want, it will be back to being at the park for RD to hit the missed 1st tier FP+ attractions first. Will that make the lines any shorter? Doubt it.

The crowds were still pretty busy this week but the lines for rides weren't horrible- if you knew what you were doing. I did find that the entrances for the FP lines were long. The bands take longer to scan than showing a FP ticket. Also there were many people who would scan the bands at the FP entrance and be told they didn't have FP+ booked. Maybe they thought they could get into any ride with the MBs?

I was able to change a few FP+s on the fly using the APP. A nice family handed us Little Mermaid ride FP- tickets and I had that booked on our 2nd MK day. So I was able to cancel Mermaid and add Jungle cruise. Why Jungle cruise? The standby was getting long early in the morning and I didn't want to chance missing the backside of water. The android version of the APP is super slow compared to the iPhone version. (I compared it to a friend I met up with) I also found the APP to be confusing when it came to changing FP+ rides/times. Sometimes it worked other times not so much. I never connected to Disney's wifi while in the parks... I was getting close to 40mbps on my HCTone with ATT 4g LTE service.

Anyway, what am I trying to say? I found FP+ to be a help (mostly) to a planning family. Are the days a winging it done? What will be available to someone who books last minute? What about the family who stays offsite? Are they screwed? Will Disney allow 3FP+ at more than 1 park per day(MK needs at least 4 IMO)? Will the tired system stay or go? (hopefully go) I guess only time will tell. Glad I'll be on an airplane tomorrow afternoon and won't have to worry about this drama. Its back to reality for me.

Hopefully I'll get a survey and tell 'em what was good and not so good with the system.

 

[DPCummerbund]

But, it would seem (speculatively, on my part, of course), that the FP+ system with its tiered makeup, will limit the accessibility, across the board. So, one would be (at this point) limited to three attractions in one park per day that can be reserved. The rest will need to be accessed by stand-by lines, yes? Lines, that by the law of averages will be longer (due to limited FP+ accessibilities and longer waits to accommodate those who DO have a FP+ for that attraction).

Nope.

This CAN'T happen. There CANNOT be longer (or shorter) waits "across the board." The law of averages says that the AVERAGE wait will remain EXACTLY the same as it always was, Fastpass or no Fastpass.

The old Fastpass- did NOTHING to speed up the lines for everyone (by "everyone" I mean all the park guests for any particular day).

The new Fastpass+ (in its current iteration) will do NOTHING to make lines shorter or longer across the board for everyone.

The ONLY thing either system did was to rearrange the lines, causing some people to wait longer than others. The average wait time remains exactly the same.

At some point, though, the Magic Band system MIGHT cause this to change. If, at some point, the MBs are "virtual queues", allowing you to do OTHER THINGS while the MB holds a spot for you (i.e. you can reserve a ride for each hour of the day, and at closer intervals than the "average" lines would be), THEN it will change the lines for everyone.

So, theoretically, the MB system might make things better for everyone at some point (by "better" I mean overall line waiting). It cannot, even theoretically, make the average line longer. Only shorter.

 

[aubriee]

If roughly 50% of those who visit the Disney parks are offsite visitors, will FP+ really change that that much? Will those people be happy to commit to more expensive and smaller hotel rooms in order to get one headliner FP?

The new visitor might be but I can't imagine that those who go to WDW often will be particularly impressed with this. Of course I could be very wrong.

No, I think you are very right. As annual passholders who go to WDW 4-6 times a year we are not impressed at all with the changes and have already made plans to do other stuff down there. We also have annual passes for Universal and are getting the all year long Fun Pass from Sea World. For our eleven day trip in Dec our original plan was to spend nine days at WDW and two days at Universal. Now our plans our to spend maybe 4-5 days at WDW, two days at Universal, one or two days at Sea World and a couple of days doing other things or just enjoying our resort (Wyndham Bonnet Creek). Our eleven day April trip is now up in the air. We'd like to get another trip out of our annual passes, but if this FP+ mess doesn't get straightened out and if we can't ride the rides we usually do, then we just won't spend any of those days over at WDW (or may just spend one day in Epcot and one day at MK). We feel like we wasted the money we spent on annual passes this year and are not happy about it. I was there solo in Sept, again staying at Wyndham Bonnet Creek and was not thrilled with the longer lines I experienced due to FP+.

 

[bcrook]

Nope.

This CAN'T happen. There CANNOT be longer (or shorter) waits "across the board." The law of averages says that the AVERAGE wait will remain EXACTLY the same as it always was, Fastpass or no Fastpass.

The old Fastpass- did NOTHING to speed up the lines for everyone (by "everyone" I mean all the park guests for any particular day).

The new Fastpass+ (in its current iteration) will do NOTHING to make lines shorter or longer across the board for everyone.

The ONLY thing either system did was to rearrange the lines, causing some people to wait longer than others. The average wait time remains exactly the same.

At some point, though, the Magic Band system MIGHT cause this to change. If, at some point, the MBs are "virtual queues", allowing you to do OTHER THINGS while the MB holds a spot for you (i.e. you can reserve a ride for each hour of the day, and at closer intervals than the "average" lines would be), THEN it will change the lines for everyone.

So, theoretically, the MB system might make things better for everyone at some point (by "better" I mean overall line waiting). It cannot, even theoretically, make the average line longer. Only shorter.

I don't know if this true.

What if a higher percentage of people are riding rides now because they have an advanced ride reservation. If a couple normally shows up at Epcot at four pm and doesn't bother with soarin or test track under the old system. Now has a couple of rides in hand with a FP+, that adds people to the queues.

Even a 10% increase in participation could add 2700 people to a headliner in Epcot and then 2700 displaced riders will clog up the minor rides more.

 

[metzgardesign]

Nope.

This CAN'T happen. There CANNOT be longer (or shorter) waits "across the board." The law of averages says that the AVERAGE wait will remain EXACTLY the same as it always was, Fastpass or no Fastpass.

The old Fastpass- did NOTHING to speed up the lines for everyone (by "everyone" I mean all the park guests for any particular day).

The new Fastpass+ (in its current iteration) will do NOTHING to make lines shorter or longer across the board for everyone.

The ONLY thing either system did was to rearrange the lines, causing some people to wait longer than others. The average wait time remains exactly the same.

At some point, though, the Magic Band system MIGHT cause this to change. If, at some point, the MBs are "virtual queues", allowing you to do OTHER THINGS while the MB holds a spot for you (i.e. you can reserve a ride for each hour of the day, and at closer intervals than the "average" lines would be), THEN it will change the lines for everyone.

So, theoretically, the MB system might make things better for everyone at some point (by "better" I mean overall line waiting). It cannot, even theoretically, make the average line longer. Only shorter.

By "longer lines" I was referring to the stand-by lines, which I do believe will be longer. While FP+ waits will be shorter (or not, depending on how efficient the whole FP+ really ends up being, and how much ride capacity is actually pre-filled relative to overall capacity). So averaging out to be about the same. Unless WDW crams even more folks through the gates.....then yes....line will be longer.

Maybe not. Maybe the headliner attractions will experience quicker (or shorter queues, while the smaller attractions pick up some of the slack).

But, thanks.

 

[mom2rtk]

Well....that all sounds lovely.

But, at the end of the day, our trips have always resulted in being able to (pretty easily actually) do pretty much all attractions (without using many FastPasses....save for the odd, super-strong draws) and no REAL long lines.

But, it would seem (speculatively, on my part, of course), that the FP+ system with its tiered makeup, will limit the accessibility, across the board. So, one would be (at this point) limited to three attractions in one park per day that can be reserved. The rest will need to be accessed by stand-by lines, yes? Lines, that by the law of averages will be longer (due to limited FP+ accessibilities and longer waits to accommodate those who DO have a FP+ for that attraction).

As my wife stated when I was trying to explain the tiered dealio to her, "So....we could get a FP+ thing for Soarin' but not TT? And if we want to ride TT we'll have to wait in line....like a potentially REALLY long line? Getting a FP will no longer be an option? Yeah....we're not paying $4,000 - $5,000 for that privilege."

Have to agree with her.

And I am sure, as I mentioned, this probably makes sense to the number-bangers in Disney corporate cubicles, somewhere. But, I think it will result in frustration for many visitors. Hopefully not. And I am sure many people will have splendid, albeit VERY regimented vacations.

But, I think we probably won't be some of them.

Yes, I think the cubicle bean counters view tihis as a zero sum game. That they can spread the crowds out the way they want to spread them out. That they can take a few fastpasses away from their loyal repeat guests who went to the trouble of figuring that system out...... and spread those FPs out to the ones who never quite figured the system out, never bothered to do the research, never felt like getting up early on vacation. And think that instead of having some of theirguests really happy with their trips, they can have all of their guests really happy with their trips.

I think they underestimate and take for granted their loyal guests who return year after year at their own peril.

Yes, I know many will chime in and say they are loyal repeat guests and love the new FP+ system. The question is not whether those exist. It's clear they do. The question is how many of the other sort is out there.... the sort who will no longer find Disney a good vacation value once ride rationing truly gets under way.

 

[mom2rtk]

Nope.

This CAN'T happen. There CANNOT be longer (or shorter) waits "across the board." The law of averages says that the AVERAGE wait will remain EXACTLY the same as it always was, Fastpass or no Fastpass.

The old Fastpass- did NOTHING to speed up the lines for everyone (by "everyone" I mean all the park guests for any particular day).

The new Fastpass+ (in its current iteration) will do NOTHING to make lines shorter or longer across the board for everyone.

The ONLY thing either system did was to rearrange the lines, causing some people to wait longer than others. The average wait time remains exactly the same.

At some point, though, the Magic Band system MIGHT cause this to change. If, at some point, the MBs are "virtual queues", allowing you to do OTHER THINGS while the MB holds a spot for you (i.e. you can reserve a ride for each hour of the day, and at closer intervals than the "average" lines would be), THEN it will change the lines for everyone.

So, theoretically, the MB system might make things better for everyone at some point (by "better" I mean overall line waiting). It cannot, even theoretically, make the average line longer. Only shorter.

But the lines will indeed be longer if they keep the newbie guests from wandering the parks in circles, doing only a couple rides in the course of the day...... onto the attractions so that they too can become loyal repeat guests. I think that's a big piece of this.

 

[bcrook]

But the lines will indeed be longer if they keep the newbie guests from wandering the parks in circles, doing only a couple rides in the course of the day...... onto the attractions so that they too can become loyal repeat guests. I think that's a big piece of this.

It has to be part of the plan. Combine those newbies with veterans who show up later in the evening... We have the perfect recipe for longer lines for all.

 

[Schmeck]

I know what is going to happen - people will start trying to get the DAS, as it works as an unlimited FP when the queue lines are down to 20 minutes. One could get to a tier 1 attraction at rope drop, and with a DAS get sent right in the FP queue. Then they would have another tier 1 already booked with FP+, and get to do other things with a DAS return time instead of waiting in a 2 hour queue. Disney is going to see more requests for DAS, IMO. While there will be wait times, it will give some people more access to tier 1 attractions. It's going to be messy when this hits the fan!

 

[FRANKTSJR]

Guess how Universal did that? That's right they built new attractions not a new computer/tracking/CC machine system. Maybe one day this technology will be great,who knows but right now people see rides going up at Universal and princess meet and greets at Disney.

Exactly, if Soarin and TestTrack are so popular, why doesn't Disney add more similar type attractions. Think about it, what new attractions have been added lately? Fantasyland, which is a huge waste of money in my opinion. There's nothing there.

 

[AmyB2006]

I know what is going to happen - people will start trying to get the DAS, as it works as an unlimited FP when the queue lines are down to 20 minutes. One could get to a tier 1 attraction at rope drop, and with a DAS get sent right in the FP queue. Then they would have another tier 1 already booked with FP+, and get to do other things with a DAS return time instead of waiting in a 2 hour queue. Disney is going to see more requests for DAS, IMO. While there will be wait times, it will give some people more access to tier 1 attractions. It's going to be messy when this hits the fan!

There might be a slight increase but I doubt that most people will think of this or even do this. Plus with the new way they work this system you will still have to come back to the ride at a set time. There is no more just getting into the FP queue I thought.

 

[mom2rtk]

There might be a slight increase but I doubt that most people will think of this or even do this. Plus with the new way they work this system you will still have to come back to the ride at a set time. There is no more just getting into the FP queue I thought.

They only get right into the queue when the ride time is low enough, either 10 or 15 minutes I believe.

I think there will be some temptation to abuse DAS as an answer, but no more so than there was under the GAC. Perhaps they will be pushed closer to trying it now since FP is rationing rides, but then DAS is not as great a payoff as GAC used to be. So I doubt the impact will be great.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Is this a joke?

Um, not exactly. If it wasn't clear, I meant informing them of the FP+ system and when booking opens to them, not informing them of the need to book exactly 60+ days out. If Disney wants to lock as many people as possible in ahead of time, wants to get people excited about FP+ as a positive change, and wants to spread the fastpasses among more newbie guests, aren't they going to put some of their investment into promoting the system? Or am I giving them too much credit? I'm also thinking about automated emails sent to those who have already booked, excitedly reminding them how many days until they can book all the FP+ for their trip. I'm curious about how much of that we're going to see.

To return to the thread title, I am entertained by the whole thing, only because I don't have thousands invested in a Disney trip and can sit back and watch how this all plays out. I'd love to be at a meeting and learn whether "they" know exactly what the final version will be.

It is NOT possible to come up with any fastpass system that makes every customer satisfied and eager to return, unless you increase the number of popular attractions and/or their capacity and don't increase the number of guests. As others have said, the tier test seems to indicate a desire to make the greatest number of guests possible reach an adequate level of happiness.

 

[AmyB2006]

Um, not exactly. If it wasn't clear, I meant informing them of the FP+ system and when booking opens to them, not informing them of the need to book exactly 60+ days out. If Disney wants to lock as many people as possible in ahead of time, wants to get people excited about FP+ as a positive change, and wants to spread the fastpasses among more newbie guests, aren't they going to put some of their investment into promoting the system? Or am I giving them too much credit? Yes! LOL I'm also thinking about automated emails sent to those who have already booked, excitedly reminding them how many days until they can book all the FP+ for their trip. I'm curious about how much of that we're going to see.

To return to the thread title, I am entertained by the whole thing, only because I don't have thousands invested in a Disney trip and can sit back and watch how this all plays out. I'd love to be at a meeting and learn whether "they" know exactly what the final version will be.

It is NOT possible to come up with any fastpass system that makes every customer satisfied and eager to return, unless you increase the number of popular attractions and/or their capacity and don't increase the number of guests. As others have said, the tier test seems to indicate a desire to make the greatest number of guests possible reach an adequate level of happiness.

And with that I agree. Plus, you just can't make everybody happy all of the time. Their goal is to make as much money as possible while keeping the largest amount of guests happy at the same time.

 

[AmyB2006]

They only get right into the queue when the ride time is low enough, either 10 or 15 minutes I believe.

I think there will be some temptation to abuse DAS as an answer, but no more so than there was under the GAC. Perhaps they will be pushed closer to trying it now since FP is rationing rides, but then DAS is not as great a payoff as GAC used to be. So I doubt the impact will be great.

Agreed.

 

[aubriee]

I know what is going to happen - people will start trying to get the DAS, as it works as an unlimited FP when the queue lines are down to 20 minutes. One could get to a tier 1 attraction at rope drop, and with a DAS get sent right in the FP queue. Then they would have another tier 1 already booked with FP+, and get to do other things with a DAS return time instead of waiting in a 2 hour queue. Disney is going to see more requests for DAS, IMO. While there will be wait times, it will give some people more access to tier 1 attractions. It's going to be messy when this hits the fan!

That's what I'm afraid of too. There was someone on one of these FP+ threads who posted that he planned on getting a DAS for each of his six family members so they could have six return times at all times. He was very bold about what he planned to do and said he had no guilt whatsoever about it. He said Disney was leaving offsiters no choice but to cheat the system.