Interracial dating

[Disney Doll]

Frankly, people have the right to hold whatever opinion they want, whether or not I agree with it. I don't like people telling me what opinions Imay or may not have so I won't do it to anyone else.

However, I would also warn them that if they voiced that opinion in the presence of these youngsters in any way, shape or form, if these youngsters were made to feel uncomfortable because of their mixed-race relationship, of if they said or did ANYTHING even remotely offensive, that it would be the last time they would be seeing us for a VERY LONG TIME.

 

[TinkerBelled]

One of the things that has really begun bothering me the older I get is how we think of race in the US. When we say someone is "black" what we really mean is that they have enough African DNA that they can't pass for White. That's nuts to me. So we call our president Black when he is, in reality, mixed race. People who get upset over inter-racial dating are almost never upset when Asians and Whites get married or American Indians and Whites marry, just when someone who is maybe 25% European and 75% African genetically is marrying someone who almost entirely European.

It's just. . .nuts. That's the nicest word I can use for it.

"Race" in America is a cultural and political term, not a scientific one. When we say "black" in America we mean, I think, "you have enough African DNA in you that you could've been slave if you'd been born prior to the Civil War." When we say "white" we mean "I think you wouldn't look out of place somewhere in Europe." American Indian, the federal government has very specific rules that are not put in place for anyone else of any other racial description, and basically, even if you are 99.987% Native, if you don't pass those rules, you don't count.

Race is a nutty, weird thing in the USA today that makes little logical sense.

Race has long been a nutty, weird thing. Look up pinturas de casta, if you're interested--they're detailed portraits from 17th and 18th c. Spain and Latin America which attempt to depict and describe all sorts of interracial relationships, for example a child of a half-Spanish, half-African woman and a half-Indian, half-African man. They were obsessed with race and what they called caste.

As for America, I think a lot of it has to with the 'one-drop' legislation that sprang up in the South in the early 20th century (interestingly, half a century after slavery was abolished, at which point the Reconstructionist politicians lost their power and white supremacist laws became more easily passed). With these laws, a negligible fraction of black ancestry could lead to being discriminated against. This has really set the terms of the debate for the past century--we think about race in this way even now, in large part because the massive discrimination that black people faced in this country in the 20th century was based on these rules. People with four black grandparents and people with two black grandparents faced equal legal discrimination for a long time, so it's not surprising that they might think of themselves as in the same category, even if their ancestry is different.

I don't think we're in a post-racial world yet, but I think things are getting less categorical--and for the better. Today, 1 in 12 marriages are interracial; about 1 in 5 same-sex unmarried partnerships are. And while a 1991 survey found just 48% of people approving of interracial relationships, a 2011 survey saw that number reach 86%. The legacy of the 'one-drop' rule is, I think, fading. This isn't to say that racism isn't alive and well--we all know it is. But it does mean that things are getting more complicated and less categorical, and I think we'll be better off for it.

(See http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-new-u-s-census-study-shows-article-1.1067800 or http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46409832/#.UU8qcVskEyA for a summary of recent polling.)

 

[violetrose]

My parents are an interracial couple so obviously they don't have a problem with it!

My in-laws are not an interracial couple and grew up in a time where the races did not mix but they love my parents and family so I'm pretty sure they are o.k. with it too.

Seems a dumb thing to worry about.

 

[Callie]

I have no problem with it.

Our neighbors are an interracial couple, and they have the CUTEST children ever. They have their dads curly hair, and their moms blue eyes.

 

[ebtbmom]

Well, we had another conversation today and this time it was actually worse. Basically the highlights are:

1. I'm doing everything that I can to be opposite of her and the way I was raised.
2. She has a right to her opinion and she should be able to express it honestly whenever she wants to.
3. How can I believe it's OK for the "races to mix?"
4. DS being mixed race has nothing to do with this and it's an entirely different situation.
5. She was raised this way, and why should society tell her that the "old ways" of thinking are wrong?



I feel like this is a lost cause. I acknowledged to her that yes, she can have whatever opinion she wants, but that I do not have to hear about it, she has the option of keeping it to herself, she disagrees.

I don't even know where to go from here, it's not like we have this phenomenal mother/daughter relationship anyway, I wouldn't miss much by stopping contact for a while.

Thanks for listening and not judging me for being a terrible daughter by posting this, it's really nice to hear other people's perspectives and obviously I wouldn't discuss this type of thing with people that we mutually know.

 

[MamaLema]

It doesn't bother me.

I have 3 kids, and I don't care who they date as long as the person treats my kids good and they are happy

 

[Mkrop]

Well, we had another conversation today and this time it was actually worse. Basically the highlights are:

1. I'm doing everything that I can to be opposite of her and the way I was raised.
2. She has a right to her opinion and she should be able to express it honestly whenever she wants to.
3. How can I believe it's OK for the "races to mix?"
4. DS being mixed race has nothing to do with this and it's an entirely different situation.
5. She was raised this way, and why should society tell her that the "old ways" of thinking are wrong?



I feel like this is a lost cause. I acknowledged to her that yes, she can have whatever opinion she wants, but that I do not have to hear about it, she has the option of keeping it to herself, she disagrees.

I don't even know where to go from here, it's not like we have this phenomenal mother/daughter relationship anyway, I wouldn't miss much by stopping contact for a while.

Thanks for listening and not judging me for being a terrible daughter by posting this, it's really nice to hear other people's perspectives and obviously I wouldn't discuss this type of thing with people that we mutually know.

Than I thiink you need to take Disney Doll's advice...and say yep Mom you are entitled tp your opinion but if you ever say a word to or in front of my son or this young woman, it will be the last word you say to any of us for a long time.

 

[Lynne M]

Well, we had another conversation today and this time it was actually worse. Basically the highlights are:

1. I'm doing everything that I can to be opposite of her and the way I was raised.
2. She has a right to her opinion and she should be able to express it honestly whenever she wants to.
3. How can I believe it's OK for the "races to mix?"
4. DS being mixed race has nothing to do with this and it's an entirely different situation.
5. She was raised this way, and why should society tell her that the "old ways" of thinking are wrong?



I feel like this is a lost cause. I acknowledged to her that yes, she can have whatever opinion she wants, but that I do not have to hear about it, she has the option of keeping it to herself, she disagrees.

I don't even know where to go from here, it's not like we have this phenomenal mother/daughter relationship anyway, I wouldn't miss much by stopping contact for a while.

Thanks for listening and not judging me for being a terrible daughter by posting this, it's really nice to hear other people's perspectives and obviously I wouldn't discuss this type of thing with people that we mutually know.

Not that I ever had any issues with interracial dating, but the thing that really drove home to me how silly racism was was participating in Nat Geos mitochondrial DNA project.

Every single person on this earth has an ancestor who lived in what is now Africa. And given what we know about the migration of humanity over thousands of years, lots of ancestors of other races as well.

We are ALL mixed race. All of us. Your parents are mixed race. Your mother is carrying the DNA of a black woman, our common ancestor.

You could try giving her some of that information to read, it might help her see things in a different light.

 

[ebtbmom]

Not that I ever had any issues with interracial dating, but the thing that really drove home to me how silly racism was was participating in Nat Geos mitochondrial DNA project.

Every single person on this earth has an ancestor who lived in what is now Africa. And given what we know about the migration of humanity over thousands of years, lots of ancestors of other races as well.

We are ALL mixed race. All of us. Your parents are mixed race. Your mother is carrying the DNA of a black woman, our common ancestor.

You could try giving her some of that information to read, it might help her see things in a different light.

Thank you for your perspective, it makes perfect sense to me! I believe however, that she has a different worldview and explaining how we all came from Africa isn't it. I know we can't talk religion, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

 

[Wishing on a star]

ebtbmom, yes, of course your mother, or any other person, has the right to their viewpoints and opinions. And, that is okay!

It seems that, as you seem to know, your mother's opinions come from HER life experience, etc... And, I just love the saying that is sometimes used here on the DIS, 'a person always has a right to their feelings'.

To be honest, your mother's feelings about race are less the issue, than the fact that she feels that she has the right, almost the obligation, to impose and impart her negative opinions onto others.

THAT is what troubles me and raises red flags.
Especially in reading your update.


Just based on the fact of how I am reading "Well, we had -another- conversation today..." I will just throw this in here.
I guess what I a saying is, if you don't want her to question you, and to try to impose her personal feelings/beliefs on you...
Then, you should have no expectation of doing that to her.
If her viewpoints are to ever change, it will be a process, and will not come 'just because you know it is right'.

I would not limit contact with my mother because we have a difference of opinion. But I would, certainly, limit contact with anyone who feels that they have the right to cross personal boundaries and impose/impart THEIR feelings and desires onto others.

I posted this on another recent thread about the friend, who all of the sudden, had began to make her negative feelings about gay relationships known, and how it had become an issue between the two women.

I would say the same thing now that I had posted then.
Doesn't matter which, or either, side of an issue one happens to be on.
People have a right to their feelings...
What people do not have a right to do, (again, from EITHER side) is to be negative and judgemental and feel that they have a right to impart/impose their own personal feelings/opinions onto others.

 

[ols386]

Frankly, people have the right to hold whatever opinion they want, whether or not I agree with it. I don't like people telling me what opinions Imay or may not have so I won't do it to anyone else.

However, I would also warn them that if they voiced that opinion in the presence of these youngsters in any way, shape or form, if these youngsters were made to feel uncomfortable because of their mixed-race relationship, of if they said or did ANYTHING even remotely offensive, that it would be the last time they would be seeing us for a VERY LONG TIME.

I think that's an excellent point.

I have no problem with interracial dating/marriage, but my Dad (not so much my Mom), would have had a huge issue with it if I had been in that situation, and he would not have hesitated to let me know about it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, I think Disney Doll kind of nailed it.

 

[Sabeking]

I don't have a problem with it. My only concern would be that I feel my DD and her boyfriend would have to prepare themselves for those who don't agree.

I find this very interesting; one of my closest friends husband is black and she is white. I asked if they have experienced prejudice because of this. She told me never and we live in a small town. She told me that she thinks it is because he used to be an NFL football player before he was injured and the guy is HUGE. She is not sure if they ae scared to say something or don't because they think he is famous.

 

[Disney Doll]

Well, we had another conversation today and this time it was actually worse. Basically the highlights are:

1. I'm doing everything that I can to be opposite of her and the way I was raised.
2. She has a right to her opinion and she should be able to express it honestly whenever she wants to.
3. How can I believe it's OK for the "races to mix?"
4. DS being mixed race has nothing to do with this and it's an entirely different situation.
5. She was raised this way, and why should society tell her that the "old ways" of thinking are wrong?



I feel like this is a lost cause. I acknowledged to her that yes, she can have whatever opinion she wants, but that I do not have to hear about it, she has the option of keeping it to herself, she disagrees.

I don't even know where to go from here, it's not like we have this phenomenal mother/daughter relationship anyway, I wouldn't miss much by stopping contact for a while.

Thanks for listening and not judging me for being a terrible daughter by posting this, it's really nice to hear other people's perspectives and obviously I wouldn't discuss this type of thing with people that we mutually know.

Well, then your alternative is to keep Grandma away from this cute young mixed-race couple, which is what I would be doing because judging from her responses, you cannot really trust on her to not say something insulting.

Once Grandma starts missing some family events, she'll learn to be quiet.

 

[pigletgirl]

I don't have a problem with it. My only concern would be that I feel my DD and her boyfriend would have to prepare themselves for those who don't agree.
.

There are many different situations in which a family member(s) may or may not agree with someone's choices in regards to a life partner whether it being race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. The most important thing is to have an open line of communication and for them to always know they are supported no matter what, because you love them.

I would never ever cut the lines of communication with my daughter and future sons and daughters because of who their partner is.

 

[Sabeking]

There are many different situations in which a family member(s) may or may not agree with someone's choices in regards to a life partner whether it being race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. The most important thing is to have an open line of communication and for them to always know they are supported no matter what, because you love them.

I would never ever cut the lines of communication with my daughter and future sons and daughters because of who their partner is.

Of course to all points

 

[maelstrom]

My mother made it known to me my entire life that she did not want "nappy-haired" grandchildren. Yikes!!! I dated a few Puerto Rican boys along the way and while she was never rude or anything to them (in fact, she still sees one of them around town, and thinks he's just the nicest and most polite man), I know she was hoping it wouldn't last. Turns out, I married a white guy, and I'm sure that makes my mom very happy. I just married the person I fell in love with. Could've just as easily been a black girl or an Asian man. I never found culture and/or colour to be an issue when I was dating... religion was MUCH more of an issue, and that time I dated the evangelical Christian was not a good time for this atheist. I ended up marrying someone who shares my religious views, and that guy ended up marrying another evangelical Christian, so happy endings for both.

I don't have kids of my own yet, but as long as my future child's significant other treats them well and respects them, I really don't care what colour they are, or what their cultural background is, or what their sexual orientation is... there is so much more to life.

 

[okeydokey]

Well, we had another conversation today and this time it was actually worse. Basically the highlights are:

1. I'm doing everything that I can to be opposite of her and the way I was raised.
2. She has a right to her opinion and she should be able to express it honestly whenever she wants to.
3. How can I believe it's OK for the "races to mix?"
4. DS being mixed race has nothing to do with this and it's an entirely different situation.
5. She was raised this way, and why should society tell her that the "old ways" of thinking are wrong?



I feel like this is a lost cause. I acknowledged to her that yes, she can have whatever opinion she wants, but that I do not have to hear about it, she has the option of keeping it to herself, she disagrees.

I don't even know where to go from here, it's not like we have this phenomenal mother/daughter relationship anyway, I wouldn't miss much by stopping contact for a while.

Thanks for listening and not judging me for being a terrible daughter by posting this, it's really nice to hear other people's perspectives and obviously I wouldn't discuss this type of thing with people that we mutually know.

She has a right to think what she wants and YOU have a right to not have to hear it. I would end immediately any conversation in which she started offering her opinion, by hanging up the phone or walking out of the house. And I would certainly never allow her to be in the same room with my child and their date.

 

[Lynne M]

Thank you for your perspective, it makes perfect sense to me! I believe however, that she has a different worldview and explaining how we all came from Africa isn't it. I know we can't talk religion, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

I do understand what you mean. I wanted to go back to her comment about being raised to believe these things, and society telling her that the old ways are wrong.

There have always been 'old ways'; things we used to believe that we know now are not true. We used to believe that the earth was flat. We used to believe that an eclipse meant a wolf was eating the sun. At some point, we gave up on those 'old ways' because we came to realize that they were just wrong.

And we used to believe that people of other races were biologically inferior, or inherently less intelligent, or lazy. Interestingly enough, some other cultures have thought the same of white people. It's kind of a thing for the dominant culture to see the 'other' as inferior.

If it were me, and I were going to have any further conversation with her about it (and I'm not sure I would), I might say something like "Mom, when the old ways cause people pain and harm just because they look different than us, then the old ways deserve to be thrown away."

I'd also tell her that if she says these things around her grandson or his girlfriend, she's going to hurt them both, terribly, and that I really don't think she wants to do that. And that if she hurts them that way, she's going to cause permanent damage to her relationship with him, and with you.

 

[Lynne M]

And I just have to throw out there, that this reminded me of an incident when I worked in a hospital blood bank about 25 years ago. An aide had stopped by to pick up some blood and was looking at our inventory board. It was a big metal board with slots that held cards for each unit of blood we had, and there were different color cards for each blood type.

Our shift supervisor was explaining all of this to her, and she said "but how do you know which is white people's blood and which is black people's blood?"

<insert cricket sound here>

You could have heard a pin drop.

Somehow, the poor supervisor composed himself and said "well, we don't, because there's really no difference, and no way to tell."

"You mean you might give black people's blood to white people?"

"Um, yeah."

The girl was HORRIFIED. Completely horrified.

So were we.