Intermittent FMLA

[TwoMisfits]

Because that's not what the medical professional stated was needed. And, since FMLA is approved for a certain number of hours over a certain period of time, using a full week could leave OP without enough hours approved to take care of needs in April/May.

Please allow OP to decide how to help her husband with his recovery.

It is valuable to Op to know how unprotected her current telework arrangement is. You keep thinking she has protection for her telework hours, but she has now stated she has none. Knowing she wants to be home for the post-surgical days and yet also work should weigh in to her decision making, b/c like all the firms did after Covid (and even Fed Gov eventually did), all telework agreements can be ripped up with enough notice, and all telework WITHOUT agreements can be ripped up IMMEDIATELY. She falls in the latter category.

I think Op should play ball with her company for this event. Doing otherwise has WAY more downsides for Op's future work at the company. And that's all I'll say since Op asked for opinions and for what she didn't know (I doubt she knew how easily revokable her current work situation is).

 

[_19disnA]

My manager is who I talked to yesterday but said that she talked to HR. She said HR and the leave management teams are separate.

My suggestion is that the OP talk directly with HR and whoever this 'leave management team' is and not depend on how your manager interpreted what they told her. Having them put things in writing is also a good idea as someone else suggested. If your manager is saying things that are different from what HR and that other group are telling you, then perhaps having a joint meeting could help to clarify things that don't seem to agree.

Likely you aren't first person in your company to attempt to use FMLA and they already have various policies/procedures on how to implement this.

 

[Snowflakey]

So, they can revoke it at any time? That's actually worse for you.

Maybe.....everyone works remote. I only have to go in a few hours to open mail because the admin person left.

 

[Snowflakey]

No, they can't. Legally. The employer absolutely CANNOT dictate how FMLA leave is taken. If the time one needs off is during in-office time, that's what's taken; if the time one needs of is during telework time, that's what's taken. A person cannot be forced to "show up" in the office just to get approved FMLA time. A work-from-home agreement has zero bearing on one's ability to take FMLA.

EXACTLY!!!!

Just got off phone with case manager with leave management and she said all of what you wrote above (which is what I knew) and she was bothered by what is being said to me.

 

[Snowflakey]

Now that we know she has no telework agreement AT ALL, she can be told that she needs to work 40 hours in office tomorrow and then she'll also have intermittent FMLA granted. She has no protection for her telework since that is only managerially granted with no agreement.

Knowing that, and knowing OP wants 7 more years, I would play ball, b/c OP could have a definite change in work circumstance to ensure appropriate usage of FMLA that would not be wanted.

But I will be using FMLA correctly. I'm doing what is right, for my husband and my FMLA protection. Work isn't going to scare me

 

[Snowflakey]

It is valuable to Op to know how unprotected her current telework arrangement is. You keep thinking she has protection for her telework hours, but she has now stated she has none. Knowing she wants to be home for the post-surgical days and yet also work should weigh in to her decision making, b/c like all the firms did after Covid (and even Fed Gov eventually did), all telework agreements can be ripped up with enough notice, and all telework WITHOUT agreements can be ripped up IMMEDIATELY. She falls in the latter category.

I think Op should play ball with her company for this event. Doing otherwise has WAY more downsides for Op's future work at the company. And that's all I'll say since Op asked for opinions and for what she didn't know (I doubt she knew how easily revokable her current work situation is).

I'm not worried at all about work asking only me to come to the office when 70 others do not need to......

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Maybe.....everyone works remote. I only have to go in a few hours to open mail because the admin person left.

My mom was the only person who knew her job in the company, no one else could do her job because it was down to a specific software that only she had been trained on. It did not stop that company from laying her off during early covid because she was aged 55 and up and had worked for at least 5 years. She was several months shy of 40 years at that company.

But I will be using FMLA correctly. I'm doing what is right, for my husband and my FMLA protection. Work isn't going to scare me

I think the PP is just talking about what can happen IRL. I think companies do shady stuff all the time but it does take someone fighting back either by lawsuit or by making the appropriate complaints to the appropriate department and their complaint being taken care of seriously. I don't know that revocation of your remote-aspect is necessarily the thing to strictly focus about though. But if Leave Management and HR agree you're using it as intended a game of telephone could have occurred with your manager in relaying that to you.

You may want to check back in with your company as you start to use the time since it's for several months. I could see another avenue of reduced schedule could be a way. It's technically under the same umbrella as intermittent in Federal government terms but does fit in with what you mentioned earlier as a scenario of working "I worked from 7-noon and then had to use FMLA to bring husband to appointment." that's if your husband's aftercare from the surgery ends up being a more consistent recovery. Just a thought.

 

[easyas123]

Snowflakey - I'm glad you were able to get your HR people, your manager and whomever else you needed on a call and get it all cleared up and everyone on the same page. I'm sure that goes a long way toward helping you feel better about assisting your husband with his recovery. Good luck to you, and to him. I hope all goes well.

 

[barkley]

EXACTLY!!!!

Just got off phone with case manager with leave management and she said all of what you wrote above (which is what I knew) and she was bothered by what is being said to me.

I'm glad you received information from a source within your employer/within your particular state. if you haven't already you might want to check and see if your state has any payment program for even intermittant FMLA. in the states that have these programs it can be a nice means of at least partially replacing lost earnings.

 

[Snowflakey]

I'm glad you received information from a source within your employer/within your particular state. if you haven't already you might want to check and see if your state has any payment program for even intermittant FMLA. in the states that have these programs it can be a nice means of at least partially replacing lost earnings.

Unfortunately we don't in our State

 

[LilyWDW]

I'm not worried at all about work asking only me to come to the office when 70 others do not need to......

And that would be a clear case of retaliation if they tried to do that.

Keep notes and emails through this whole process.

 

[Snowflakey]

And that would be a clear case of retaliation if they tried to do that.

Keep notes and emails through this whole process.

I am keeping notes. And it appears they are still "making" me go to the office 3 days a week while on FMLA when no one else has to......

 

[Snowflakey]

Sigh.....big changes going on. HR - Leave Management who approved my Intermittent FMLA confirmed that I can work around any times I may need to be off for care or brining him to appointments.

Apparently local HR has been in contact with them and I received a note yesterday saying that I can only take time in 1 hour increments (which is totally fine!) and that each time I'm out counts as an "occurrence". So if I needed an hour in the morning, and had to leave an hour early in the afternoon, that would count as two occurrences.

I'm astonished that these so called professionals have no clue what they are talking about

I was approved for, and I quote: 7 occurrences lasting up to 24 hours each per week for 12 weeks. In layman's term: I'm approved for FMLA use every day of the week for 12 weeks.

I can't believe these people can't understand the "7" stands for a day, not an occurrence.

And furthermore, FMLA isn't measured by occurrences, it is recorded by time you aren't working and using FMLA.

Then they also said: "you will still be held on your office schedule" - so I'm taking that as the 3 days I go in the office to open mail (about 3 hours each day) I still have to do. Even though no one else in the company is asked to go into the office....

Appreciate your advice....

 

[lanejudy]

Appreciate your advice....

Sorry this hasn't been an easy process -- it sounds so simple, right? If it helps, my FMLA was also challenging to get it started but has worked out fine once we got into it.

I think the “occurrences” vs “hours” will be a null point. Presumably you report your work time in hours/day without a detailed accounting of each hour? (Accountants and lawyers and probably some other professions account for each hour but most of us don't.) So if you need an hour in the morning and an hour later in the afternoon, that would be reported as 6 hours worked and 2 hours FMLA with no mention of "occurrences."

As to your time physically in the office — is that flexible about what days you go in? As long as the in-office work can get done in a reasonable timeframe. You may need to have a conversation with your manager about what workload can be adjusted so everything gets done and you get the FMLA time you need; your working hours are now X instead of 40/week. Maybe that’s 2 days in the office, maybe someone else does a day in the office. Approach it as "the job is important and my family is important, I'm trying to make this temporary situation work for all of us with as little disruption as possible." Emphasis on temporary and that you recognize the importance of the work and that you want to work. (if necessary remind them: "The alternative isn't a great option for either of us because that would be full-time leave for 12 weeks with someone else completely covering all my workload. So let's work something out.")

 

[T.G.I.Friday]

If you are hourly and need to clock in and out, I can see each time you clock in/out counting as an occurrence. So I would be mindful if that is the case for you.

Because if you are able to take one hour increments, I do not interpret that 7 occurrences means 7 days. It is possible you could have 4 occurrences in 1 day.

I wish you and your husband the best and hope his surgery and recovery go well.

 

[TwoMisfits]

I am keeping notes. And it appears they are still "making" me go to the office 3 days a week while on FMLA when no one else has to......

Which was my point. With no telework agreement and a pre-existing job function for you that requires you specifically to be in the office, they are insisting that you must either take all 40 hours FMLA for a week, or you must still attend to your 6ish hours in office for that week.

Sorry it is playing out this way for you, but without the legal protection of a telework agreement, they can insist as they are.

 

[lanejudy]

Sorry it is playing out this way for you, but without the legal protection of a telework agreement, they can insist as they are.

No, the employer cannot make her change her work location to use FMLA. At that point, she can make the FMLA be that she work from home full-time. The employer cannot dictate how FMLA is used; the employee and medical professional get to determine that based on the family member's needs.

I certainly hope you never have an employee under you who needs FMLA because you clearly don't understand the employee's rights in this matter.

 

[TwoMisfits]

No, the employer cannot make her change her work location to use FMLA. At that point, she can make the FMLA be that she work from home full-time. The employer cannot dictate how FMLA is used; the employee and medical professional get to determine that based on the family member's needs.

I certainly hope you never have an employee under you who needs FMLA because you clearly don't understand the employee's rights in this matter.

She can't unilaterally say FMLA lets her work from home full time when she has a defined, pre-existing, essential job function in the office UNLESS she is taking the whole week (or at least the whole day) as FMLA. Please stop giving the Op bad advice. You keep assuming she has a telework agreement defining her home role and exact home/in office hours that she does not have. What she DOES have is an existing requirement for in office work each week. The company can insist she keeps that schedule UNLESS she is using a full day of FMLA time b/c the time she is in is nebulous, but required, on the day, so she can work around staying home to fulfill it.

 

[lanejudy]

She can't unilaterally say FMLA lets her work from home full time when she has a defined, pre-existing, essential job function in the office UNLESS she is taking the whole week (or at least the whole day) as FMLA. Please stop giving the Op bad advice. You keep assuming she has a telework agreement defining her home role and exact home/in office hours that she does not have. What she DOES have is an existing requirement for in office work each week. The company can insist she keeps that schedule UNLESS she is using a full day of FMLA time b/c the time she is in is nebulous, but required, on the day, so she can work around staying home to fulfill it.

No. Any "telework agreement" is non-issue in this matter. She absolutely can use FMLA to work from home full-time (or part-time since she is taking time off to care for a family member). Her duties can and must be temporarily re-assigned to another employee if there are in-office requirements. If the job cannot be done at all from home that is a different matter but doesn't appear to be the case for OP. IF the time OP needs to care for her family member is during her in-office time, the job must accommodate that -- either by allowing fewer in-office hours or shifting that work to another employee.

FMLA gives employees rights. The employer cannot claim undue hardship or scheduling complications, the employer must find a workaround. The employer cannot retaliate or discriminate against the employee for taking FMLA.

You are suggesting OP give up her rights and give-in to bullying tactics (though I think it's more of a lack of understanding on the employer's part). What she is asking is perfectly acceptable and within her rights under the law.

 

[TwoMisfits]

No. Any "telework agreement" is non-issue in this matter. She absolutely can use FMLA to work from home full-time (or part-time since she is taking time off to care for a family member). Her duties can and must be temporarily re-assigned to another employee if there are in-office requirements. If the job cannot be done at all from home that is a different matter but doesn't appear to be the case for OP. IF the time OP needs to care for her family member is during her in-office time, the job must accommodate that -- either by allowing fewer in-office hours or shifting that work to another employee.

FMLA gives employees rights. The employer cannot claim undue hardship or scheduling complications, the employer must find a workaround. The employer cannot retaliate or discriminate against the employee for taking FMLA.

You are suggesting OP give up her rights and give-in to bullying tactics (though I think it's more of a lack of understanding on the employer's part). What she is asking is perfectly acceptable and within her rights under the law.

From OP "so I'm taking that as the 3 days I go in the office to open mail (about 3 hours each day) I still have to do"

OP CANNOT do that work activity from home and IS the only one assigned that duty. It requires 3 appearances at work per week, not defined by set times. The employer can and will insist she continue to do that secretarial task (and she is likely the only one assigned that task in her job description) b/c it cannot be done at home AND does have a timely element (it can't just sit 2 months undone).

UNLESS she uses FMLA in full for 40 hours for a week, and thus they must abide by the FMLA rules for that week. If she uses FMLA for only 6-10 hours in a week, they will insist she still come in to fulfill her onsite task as required by her job description.