Intermittent FMLA

[TwoMisfits]

I don't think I agree - I'm trying to WORK around times I may need to help my husband so how could that be looked at as abusing intermittent FMLA?

Also, I had read that they really have no say when it comes to time I'm going to take off or work. I'm protected and I have been approved for intermittent. ALso, they can't hold against me any time off I took while on FMLA protection.

No, they can't hold it against you directly. But future telework negotiations (which I assume they can open an intervals for the job position), promotions, raises, bonuses, work evaluations, etc), can all factor in to how they manage you in the future. And it won't ever literally be "she took FMLA the way we didn't want, so she now sucks" - instead, they'll elevate mistakes that they normally looked past, praise other employees more, and relegate you into the "satisfactory" bucket.

I would definitely caution not taking any FMLA in a partial day to avoid going in a day you work 2 hours and telework 6, unless it's for the 6 telework hours. That will red flag you with your management. They'll wonder how you couldn't get the appointments for the other 6 hours, and only the other 6 hours.

 

[lanejudy]

There is a difference between incremental and intermittent IMO when describing the usage of your FMLA time.

No, "intermittent FMLA" is the official federal policy term. You can call it incremental or intermittent or part-time or whatever you want, but OP is correct with the proper terminology.

Also, I had read that they really have no say when it comes to time I'm going to take off or work. I'm protected and I have been approved for intermittent. ALso, they can't hold against me any time off I took while on FMLA protection.

This is correct. The employer cannot dictate when or how you take the time as long as it's within the approved dates and amount of time. That is why they have a separate "leave management" who approves this, because your HR apparently doesn't understand the process. Stick to your guns. Ask the leave manager person to join you for a conversation (conference call) that includes HR and your manager; explain your plans and let the leave manager inform HR that you are allowed to do it that way.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't think I agree - I'm trying to WORK around times I may need to help my husband so how could that be looked at as abusing intermittent FMLA?

Also, I had read that they really have no say when it comes to time I'm going to take off or work. I'm protected and I have been approved for intermittent. ALso, they can't hold against me any time off I took while on FMLA protection.

FWIW I do agree with TwoMisfits here. Legally they can't fire you for taking FMLA but they can take things like your performance, productivity, etc any other metric that they would normally use into account for a decision later on. You would have to prove it was only the usage of FMLA time that caused you to be let go if in the future they did.

At the insurance company being brutally honest many workers who used FMLA were fired later on for performance reasons. Again most were using it for themselves so that does change the discussion a bit but in truth their work did have the propensity to suffer. It was tied into their minds being elsewhere, stressors, etc. I'm not saying the insurance company was always on the legal straight and narrow but I think people don't think about how else companies can do things.

No they don't have clear policies - just a short paragraph about FMLA and how you could qualify for it, one being intermittent which is what I got.

Well that's no help on your end, that's a bummer

 

[Snowflakey]

No, they can't hold it against you directly. But future telework negotiations (which I assume they can open an intervals for the job position), promotions, raises, bonuses, work evaluations, etc), can all factor in to how they manage you in the future. And it won't ever literally be "she took FMLA the way we didn't want, so she now sucks" - instead, they'll elevate mistakes that they normally looked past, praise other employees more, and relegate you into the "satisfactory" bucket.

I would definitely caution not taking any FMLA in a partial day to avoid going in a day you work 2 hours and telework 6, unless it's for the 6 telework hours. That will red flag you with your management. They'll wonder how you couldn't get the appointments for the other 6 hours, and only the other 6 hours.

I'm not to worried about how they look at me in the future, I don't get raises anymore and I'm eyeing retirement in about 7 years. Also, I have only positive reviews from all who I work with. We are able to request feedback from those we work with and I'm very proactive doing that making sure to keep all replies.

Confused on your last paragraph??

 

[Snowflakey]

No, "intermittent FMLA" is the official federal policy term. You can call it incremental or intermittent or part-time or whatever you want, but OP is correct with the proper terminology.


This is correct. The employer cannot dictate when or how you take the time as long as it's within the approved dates and amount of time. That is why they have a separate "leave management" who approves this, because your HR apparently doesn't understand the process. Stick to your guns. Ask the leave manager person to join you for a conversation (conference call) that includes HR and your manager; explain your plans and let the leave manager inform HR that you are allowed to do it that way.

Thank you! Great suggestion!!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No, "intermittent FMLA" is the official federal policy term. You can call it incremental or intermittent or part-time or whatever you want, but OP is correct with the proper terminology.


This is correct. The employer cannot dictate when or how you take the time as long as it's within the approved dates and amount of time. That is why they have a separate "leave management" who approves this, because your HR apparently doesn't understand the process. Stick to your guns. Ask the leave manager person to join you for a conversation (conference call) that includes HR and your manager; explain your plans and let the leave manager inform HR that you are allowed to do it that way.

I very clearly stated it was IMO and my way of describing it. I was very clear in stating it was for explanation's sake and IMO

There is a difference between incremental and intermittent IMO when describing the usage of your FMLA time. I'm not talking about maybe the exact definition your company uses but just to separate it out for explanation sake.

It could be they more mean your situation is calling for incremental usage (again my way of describing it).

 

[lanejudy]

I very clearly stated it was IMO and my way of describing it. I was very clear in stating it was for explanation's sake and IMO

Yes, but there is no such thing as "incremental FMLA" so you are making up your own description which does not help the OP.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes, but there is no such thing as "incremental FMLA" so you are making up your own description which does not help the OP.

With all due respect what is your deal? This isn't the first time you've commented on me like this.

Multiple people are trying to figure out just why the OP is told one thing and then told another. Multiple people are trying to figure out why they were told to take 2 weeks by one person and told you can't do work for a portion of the day by another. Whether YOU think it is helpful to the OP please don't pick on my words when I'm also trying to do the same thing as other people including you. For the OP there is obviously something going on at their workplace for why they are being told different things. The OP clarified they don't have a clear cut policy at their work and they were approved for what their company called incremental. There's obviously a lack of understanding between what employees are able to do at their company. Please don't continue to come at me just because you don't like my way of answering the OP's dilemma

 

[TwoMisfits]

I'm not to worried about how they look at me in the future, I don't get raises anymore and I'm eyeing retirement in about 7 years. Also, I have only positive reviews from all who I work with. We are able to request feedback from those we work with and I'm very proactive doing that making sure to keep all replies.

Confused on your last paragraph??

The question will be "How could you not come in to the office today but still could work your full 6 home telework hours? Could you really not schedule your spouse's doc appointment during the hours you'd already be home? Could he really need exactly only help during your 12-2pm office shift but he was fine all other hours?" It will speak to an abusive use of the hours vs the intended use. Management will increase scrutiny on you from that day forward if this type of use happens.

I mean, step back and be a manager...what would you think the employee was doing, especially if they had no defined work product and/or no defined must do task (like answering a phone line) for the telework day? And then they took a day like this, and then another...and only for their in office hours on their in office days.

Again, you can do it. But you may regret doing it down the line.

 

[lanejudy]

Multiple people are trying to figure out why they were told to take 2 weeks by one person and told you can't do work for a portion of the day by another.

There is a very simple answer to that -- HR and the manager are not well-informed about FMLA.

Posters twisting it up, trying to make up definitions of incremental vs intermittent, suggesting to only take full days not partial days, etc. is nonsense. With all due respect, many here obviously don't understand the law. I do. As I stated I've been through this myself. The OP apparently knows the rules and their leave management has approved it as such. The OP needs someone (none of us) to inform HR and the manager that they don't get to dictate how OP takes FMLA. If the medical professional says it's what's needed, and the leave management approves it, that's what she can do.

 

[lanejudy]

The question will be "How could you not come in to the office today but still could work your full 6 home telework hours? Could you really not schedule your spouse's doc appointment during the hours you'd already be home? Could he really need exactly only help during your 12-2pm office shift but he was fine all other hours?" It will speak to an abusive use of the hours vs the intended use. Management will increase scrutiny on you from that day forward if this type of use happens.

You do realize that is illegal? FMLA can be used to work from home instead of in the office. FMLA can be used as a few hours here and there instead of full days. FMLA can be used across a broad stretch of time not just consecutive days for # of weeks.

 

[TwoMisfits]

You do realize that is illegal? FMLA can be used to work from home instead of in the office. FMLA can be used as a few hours here and there instead of full days. FMLA can be used across a broad stretch of time not just consecutive days for # of weeks.

Yes, but if her telework agreement says "must work in the office 2 hours 3 days per week", then the hours used for FMLA would be billed as telework hours and she'd still have to schedule her in office hours.

Like the company could be saying (and probably is), yes, on your telework only days, you can bill by the hour, but on your in office days, telework hours must be billed as FMLA 1st and you MUST show up for 2 hours IN OFFICE that day UNLESS you are taking a full 8 hours.

In fact, I'd bet my lunch here that the telework agreement says that, and says something about "in office work being an essential job component/function of this position"...and if it doesn't say it now, I'm betting corporate will be adding that to the next renewal of the agreement.

 

[Snowflakey]

The question will be "How could you not come in to the office today but still could work your full 6 home telework hours? Could you really not schedule your spouse's doc appointment during the hours you'd already be home? Could he really need exactly only help during your 12-2pm office shift but he was fine all other hours?" It will speak to an abusive use of the hours vs the intended use. Management will increase scrutiny on you from that day forward if this type of use happens.

I mean, step back and be a manager...what would you think the employee was doing, especially if they had no defined work product and/or no defined must do task (like answering a phone line) for the telework day? And then they took a day like this, and then another...and only for their in office hours on their in office days.

Again, you can do it. But you may regret doing it down the line.

Oh I see what you are saying and thank you for that perspective. To be honest, I don't know if I won't be able to run to the office for a few hours. This is all new to me and I have no clue the amount of care I will need to give. The only thing I do know is he can't drive at all so I will have to bring him, wait the hour and bring him home 3X a week. Other than that, it will be one day at a time. I am not at all trying to get away from going to the office?

Oh, and there was a time that I was a manager of a small group of 18 people and there were a few that used FMLA and all I can say is I let them do what they needed to do. They were protected and I was the last one that was going to disrupt that. They needed that time.....after all, that is what it is for.

 

[Snowflakey]

There is a very simple answer to that -- HR and the manager are not well-informed about FMLA.

Posters twisting it up, trying to make up definitions of incremental vs intermittent, suggesting to only take full days not partial days, etc. is nonsense. With all due respect, many here obviously don't understand the law. I do. As I stated I've been through this myself. The OP apparently knows the rules and their leave management has approved it as such. The OP needs someone (none of us) to inform HR and the manager that they don't get to dictate how OP takes FMLA. If the medical professional says it's what's needed, and the leave management approves it, that's what she can do.

THANK YOU - I called leave management and talked to them about my call yesterday with my manager. They confirmed that my manager is wrong with everything she said. Leave management is going to have my case manager call me.

 

[Snowflakey]

Yes, but if her telework agreement says "must work in the office 2 hours 3 days per week", then the hours used for FMLA would be billed as telework hours and she'd still have to schedule her in office hours.

Like the company could be saying (and probably is), yes, on your telework only days, you can bill by the hour, but on your in office days, telework hours must be billed as FMLA 1st and you MUST show up for 2 hours IN OFFICE that day UNLESS you are taking a full 8 hours.

In fact, I'd bet my lunch here that the telework agreement says that, and says something about "in office work being an essential job component/function of this position"...and if it doesn't say it now, I'm betting corporate will be adding that to the next renewal of the agreement.

Don't bet your lunch because I don't have any sort of telework agreement!

 

[TwoMisfits]

Oh I see what you are saying and thank you for that perspective. To be honest, I don't know if I won't be able to run to the office for a few hours. This is all new to me and I have no clue the amount of care I will need to give. The only thing I do know is he can't drive at all so I will have to bring him, wait the hour and bring him home 3X a week. Other than that, it will be one day at a time. I am not at all trying to get away from going to the office?

Oh, and there was a time that I was a manager of a small group of 18 people and there were a few that used FMLA and all I can say is I let them do what they needed to do. They were protected and I was the last one that was going to disrupt that. They needed that time.....after all, that is what it is for.

So, since you've managed and now you see both sides, why not tell your manager you appreciated his/her suggestion of re-evaluating need/usage after the surgery, so you're gonna take 1 week off in full (or whatever the rest of the week is for work the day of and then after surgery) and get all of post-op stuff sorted and then give a plan for the rest of the usage based on how the surgery and the 48 hours post-op goes and what gets set up.

The manager will feel more comfortable about non-abuse and you will likely get more of what you're looking for afterwards (and even the spouse might be more relaxed, knowing they are not stealing your attention from something you need to do).

 

[TwoMisfits]

Don't bet your lunch because I don't have any sort of telework agreement!

So, they can revoke it at any time? That's actually worse for you.

 

[lanejudy]

Like the company could be saying (and probably is), yes, on your telework only days, you can bill by the hour, but on your in office days, telework hours must be billed as FMLA 1st and you MUST show up for 2 hours IN OFFICE that day UNLESS you are taking a full 8 hours.

In fact, I'd bet my lunch here that the telework agreement says that, and says something about "in office work being an essential job component/function of this position"...and if it doesn't say it now, I'm betting corporate will be adding that to the next renewal of the agreement.

No, they can't. Legally. The employer absolutely CANNOT dictate how FMLA leave is taken. If the time one needs off is during in-office time, that's what's taken; if the time one needs of is during telework time, that's what's taken. A person cannot be forced to "show up" in the office just to get approved FMLA time. A work-from-home agreement has zero bearing on one's ability to take FMLA.

 

[TwoMisfits]

No, they can't. Legally. The employer absolutely CANNOT dictate how FMLA leave is taken. If the time one needs off is during in-office time, that's what's taken; if the time one needs of is during telework time, that's what's taken. A person cannot be forced to "show up" in the office just to get approved FMLA time. A work-from-home agreement has zero bearing on one's ability to take FMLA.

Now that we know she has no telework agreement AT ALL, she can be told that she needs to work 40 hours in office tomorrow and then she'll also have intermittent FMLA granted. She has no protection for her telework since that is only managerially granted with no agreement.

Knowing that, and knowing OP wants 7 more years, I would play ball, b/c OP could have a definite change in work circumstance to ensure appropriate usage of FMLA that would not be wanted.

 

[lanejudy]

why not tell your manager you appreciated his/her suggestion of re-evaluating need/usage after the surgery, so you're gonna take 1 week off in full (or whatever the rest of the week is for work the day of and then after surgery) and get all of post-op stuff sorted and then give a plan for the rest of the usage based on how the surgery and the 48 hours post-op goes and what gets set up.

Because that's not what the medical professional stated was needed. And, since FMLA is approved for a certain number of hours over a certain period of time, using a full week could leave OP without enough hours approved to take care of needs in April/May.

Please allow OP to decide how to help her husband with his recovery.