Interesting Experience w/ ADR Change Issue

[Lilsia]

I wonder if with the return of the dining plan, they will crack down on this even more. There are going to be a lot more people trying to get reservations. Playing musical restaurants is not really conducive to a properly run system. I can see people getting annoyed at trying for weeks to get a reservation, finally settle for another restaurant, and then seeing the restaurant that they originally wanted have a walk up list. Disney is kind in not charging you for things like an illness, most places that have a cancellation fee don't care what the reason is.

 

[Chi35364]

Hello all, So sorry if I caused controversy by creating this post. I was not going for that. I didn't' get to read all 100 posts but I did want to point out some things that might have been overlooked or i didn't mention:

1 - when I was referring to the old policy changing to the new 2hr, i was actually referring to the 24hr rule, Upon reading more, I understand there were multiple changes in between the 24hour cancel rule and the 2hr rule which changed more than 2 times. Several yrs ago, we were actually able to change reservation times/dates within 24hr window. I was not really aware of this new restriction for being able to change within the cancel window.

2 - We initially booked Chef Mickey's, and always intended on going to it. We merely saw an opportunity! perhaps from SOMEONE who had canceled their Artist point ADR just before 2 hours?? So we thought this was be a great opportunity for us. Our last trip we tried get an ADR at Artist Point but was never successful.

3 - I fully understand the purpose of a cancellation policy. This is to prevent deliberate abuse of the system. But i'm confident i'm not who WDW is trying to go after with this NO-SHOW policy. We always show up for our ADRs that we book, and upon reading I now understand a bit more on why this rule was implemented. I guess there was a loophole that allowed people to park at resorts for free? 100% not my case either - we didn't even have car on our trip.

4 - the fact is we were attempting to move from 1 WDW restaurant to ANOTHER WDW restaurant. It's not like we canceled and left WDW property to eat somewhere else.

5 - MOST IMPORTANTLY - The 1st CM was extremely RUDE and was accusing and blaming ME as to why restaurants were 1/2 empty. It would have been much different if he said, So sorry, I'd like to make the change, but current policies prevent me from doing so. What possible reason to add those accusations to the conversation? he was very blunt, rude, and lied when he offered to move our reservation time but said none were available when indeed there was an opening for an hour later. This is where my post was mostly getting too.

I think with ADR cancellation/changes, there are lots of variables that can come into play that could easily allow a change outside of standard policies. Perhaps someone got sick/fever, transportation issues, etc.

Lastly, I think WDW should reconsider guests who want to modify from one WDW restaurant to another WDW restaurant. I think it's not totally unreasonable. At the end of the day, the other restaurant had an ADR opening which wasn't being filled, I'm now offering to fil it, i just transferred the opening to the other. It was a NET ZERO loss. Unless someone can explain otherwise.

 

[Chi35364]

I'll add one more post.

Our 1st trip back in 2018, we booked about a month before our trip, was NEW to WDW so didn't really understand the craziness of ADRs and how they disappeared so fast. Initially it baffled me how it was possible to book date/time of what your going to eat 6months before.

Anyways, we watched many YT videos and were excited to eat breakfast at Ohana. We obviously never got an ADR but I did book Kona which we were excited to try the famous Tonga Toast. In fact we really couldn't find any Character meal ADRs. We did finally snag a BOG 2 days before with much stalking of the site.

We walked to our 8am breakfast reservation at Kona, I noticed both Ohana and Kona restaurants were very close, I walked up to Ohana and asked if anything was available. CM said yes we have a table now. I scratched my head thinking, WTH! I've been refreshing for almost a month to find a breakfast reservation, How??? I told the CM I had booked Kona, he told me goto the Kona check-in and let them know you are able to move to Ohana they will take care of it for you. I did and we actually were able to have our 1st character meal. We would have still ate at Kona but an opportunity surfaced and WDW was offering to accommodate. Why are some considering this wrong of me?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The 1st CM was extremely RUDE

Yeah no one disagreed with you there

3 - I fully understand the purpose of a cancellation policy. This is to prevent deliberate abuse of the system. But i'm confident i'm not who WDW is trying to go after with this NO-SHOW policy. We always show up for our ADRs that we book, and upon reading I now understand a bit more on why this rule was implemented. I guess there was a loophole that allowed people to park at resorts for free? 100% not my case either - we didn't even have car on our trip.

The loophole that was most recently changed was people being able to modify to a future date and either keeping or canceling that future reservation. This allowed no fee to be charged so long as you cancelled within the timeframe (which used to be 24 hours then was reduced to 2 hours). Disney attempted to be flexible, accommodating, etc until they couldn't. That's why you are seeing now a tightening. Who knows maybe in the future they loosen them back up. But they didn't just tighten them for no reason here. In the world of Disney planning 2 hours is very realistic in terms of not allowing modifications. Now if only they could get rid of 7am LL

4 - the fact is we were attempting to move from 1 WDW restaurant to ANOTHER WDW restaurant. It's not like we canceled and left WDW property to eat somewhere else.

Not all restaurants are owned and operated by Disney. Space 220 for example is not owned nor operated by Disney. It may be on Disney's property but it's not run by Disney.

In addition staffing and pay is determined differently depending on which restaurant. You see it as an even switch but you're not considering any of the background stuff going on.

I think with ADR cancellation/changes, there are lots of variables that can come into play that could easily allow a change outside of standard policies. Perhaps someone got sick/fever, transportation issues, etc.

They still have flexibility for out of your hands issues, that's actually where a company should be saving their exceptions for. But just checking and seeing a different restaurant, for whatever reason, is available isn't a good way of maintaining that flexibility especially when you've opted to tighten your policy.

I don't think any of us presumed you were doing something so awful it was just that you have this fairly generous policy (for Disney) of not allowing modifications or cancellations without a penalty so long as it's within 2 hours, an improvement from 24 hours. It did seem like from your OP you were most upset with a fee being charged when that fee has been assessed for a long time, the only real change was reducing from 24 hours to 2 hours. Had you done this last spring/summer you would have been charged the fee regardless of it being within 2 hours, well unless you modified Chef Mickey's which is the loophole that was closed because now Disney does not allow modifications nor cancellations within 2 hours of the ADR time.

 

[DLgal]

I'll add one more post.

Our 1st trip back in 2018, we booked about a month before our trip, was NEW to WDW so didn't really understand the craziness of ADRs and how they disappeared so fast. Initially it baffled me how it was possible to book date/time of what your going to eat 6months before.

Anyways, we watched many YT videos and were excited to eat breakfast at Ohana. We obviously never got an ADR but I did book Kona which we were excited to try the famous Tonga Toast. In fact we really couldn't find any Character meal ADRs. We did finally snag a BOG 2 days before with much stalking of the site.

We walked to our 8am breakfast reservation at Kona, I noticed both Ohana and Kona restaurants were very close, I walked up to Ohana and asked if anything was available. CM said yes we have a table now. I scratched my head thinking, WTH! I've been refreshing for almost a month to find a breakfast reservation, How??? I told the CM I had booked Kona, he told me goto the Kona check-in and let them know you are able to move to Ohana they will take care of it for you. I did and we actually were able to have our 1st character meal. We would have still ate at Kona but an opportunity surfaced and WDW was offering to accommodate. Why are some considering this wrong of me?

So, in this case, you were literally transferring business WITHIN the same entity (the Polynesian Resort). The money amd restaurant management there is all interconnected. So, they had no problem doing a switcheroo.

However, as mentioned, every hotel and theme park (and it's affiliated restaurants) at WDW operates as a separate entity, with its own budget and sales projections to meet. It's not all "the same place" as far as revenue is concerned. In addition, restaurants in Disney Springs (and some in the parks) are third party operated and are not tied to Disney's financials at all, so swapping isn't always one Disney restaurant for another. If a bunch of people make last minute swaps or no show for their reservations, it's lost revenue and a potential overstaffing situation at the restaurants, which also cost Disney money.

Clearly Disney has been impacted by the old policy enough to tighten it up. The next step is likely no changes at all once you book without incurring a fee.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think with ADR cancellation/changes, there are lots of variables that can come into play that could easily allow a change outside of standard policies. Perhaps someone got sick/fever, transportation issues, etc.

Lastly, I think WDW should reconsider guests who want to modify from one WDW restaurant to another WDW restaurant. I think it's not totally unreasonable. At the end of the day, the other restaurant had an ADR opening which wasn't being filled, I'm now offering to fil it, i just transferred the opening to the other. It was a NET ZERO loss. Unless someone can explain otherwise.

But being sick didn't apply in your case.

Also, not all restaurants are Disney owned. Funny thing is you know the rules, and are just looking for an exception to be made. Doesn't hurt to ask, but you need to be able to take being told No gracefully. Even if the way it was handed to you wasn't the best.

 

[Lilsia]

Hello all, So sorry if I caused controversy by creating this post. I was not going for that. I didn't' get to read all 100 posts but I did want to point out some things that might have been overlooked or i didn't mention:

1 - when I was referring to the old policy changing to the new 2hr, i was actually referring to the 24hr rule, Upon reading more, I understand there were multiple changes in between the 24hour cancel rule and the 2hr rule which changed more than 2 times. Several yrs ago, we were actually able to change reservation times/dates within 24hr window. I was not really aware of this new restriction for being able to change within the cancel window.

2 - We initially booked Chef Mickey's, and always intended on going to it. We merely saw an opportunity! perhaps from SOMEONE who had canceled their Artist point ADR just before 2 hours?? So we thought this was be a great opportunity for us. Our last trip we tried get an ADR at Artist Point but was never successful.

3 - I fully understand the purpose of a cancellation policy. This is to prevent deliberate abuse of the system. But i'm confident i'm not who WDW is trying to go after with this NO-SHOW policy. We always show up for our ADRs that we book, and upon reading I now understand a bit more on why this rule was implemented. I guess there was a loophole that allowed people to park at resorts for free? 100% not my case either - we didn't even have car on our trip.

4 - the fact is we were attempting to move from 1 WDW restaurant to ANOTHER WDW restaurant. It's not like we canceled and left WDW property to eat somewhere else.

5 - MOST IMPORTANTLY - The 1st CM was extremely RUDE and was accusing and blaming ME as to why restaurants were 1/2 empty. It would have been much different if he said, So sorry, I'd like to make the change, but current policies prevent me from doing so. What possible reason to add those accusations to the conversation? he was very blunt, rude, and lied when he offered to move our reservation time but said none were available when indeed there was an opening for an hour later. This is where my post was mostly getting too.

I think with ADR cancellation/changes, there are lots of variables that can come into play that could easily allow a change outside of standard policies. Perhaps someone got sick/fever, transportation issues, etc.

Lastly, I think WDW should reconsider guests who want to modify from one WDW restaurant to another WDW restaurant. I think it's not totally unreasonable. At the end of the day, the other restaurant had an ADR opening which wasn't being filled, I'm now offering to fil it, i just transferred the opening to the other. It was a NET ZERO loss. Unless someone can explain otherwise.

I don't think that you did anything wrong in asking to change. If they couldn't or didn't want you to do it, then all of the cast members would have said that it is not possible. There is no excuse for the first cast member to treat you that way and they should have been reported.
Disney is doing it's best to try to find a way to be fair to all. The old system would let anyone book multiple reservations and let them cancel last minute with no penalty. That led to many people making a bunch and not showing up, leaving restaurants half empty. That has not been the case for several years though. I think that Disney does a good job of going case by case. It seems that you just got a crappy cast member.

 

[Lilsia]

I'll add one more post.

Our 1st trip back in 2018, we booked about a month before our trip, was NEW to WDW so didn't really understand the craziness of ADRs and how they disappeared so fast. Initially it baffled me how it was possible to book date/time of what your going to eat 6months before.

Anyways, we watched many YT videos and were excited to eat breakfast at Ohana. We obviously never got an ADR but I did book Kona which we were excited to try the famous Tonga Toast. In fact we really couldn't find any Character meal ADRs. We did finally snag a BOG 2 days before with much stalking of the site.

We walked to our 8am breakfast reservation at Kona, I noticed both Ohana and Kona restaurants were very close, I walked up to Ohana and asked if anything was available. CM said yes we have a table now. I scratched my head thinking, WTH! I've been refreshing for almost a month to find a breakfast reservation, How??? I told the CM I had booked Kona, he told me goto the Kona check-in and let them know you are able to move to Ohana they will take care of it for you. I did and we actually were able to have our 1st character meal. We would have still ate at Kona but an opportunity surfaced and WDW was offering to accommodate. Why are some considering this wrong of me?

I believe that they save some spots for walk ups. I have always been lucky with dinner at Boma when I got there about 10 minutes before opening. Now, they just have it in the app with their "join wait list". Plus, as you said, some people will cancel last minute for various reasons.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I believe that they save some spots for walk ups. I have always been lucky with dinner at Boma when I got there about 10 minutes before opening. Now, they just have it in the app with their "join wait list". Plus, as you said, some people will cancel last minute for various reasons.

There are also a few reservations for certain resorts (which started also last fall), Boma being one of them, held back for guests of that particular resort. Chef Mickey's is another one. Disney is trying to increase odds that guests of certain resorts can dine at their resort more easily.

 

[10CJ]

There are also a few reservations for certain resorts (which started also last fall), Boma being one of them, held back for guests of that particular resort. Chef Mickey's is another one. Disney is trying to increase odds that guests of certain resorts can dine at their resort more easily.

Many people are implying that Chef Mickey's probably lost money on this transfer. However I think it would be easier to fill a spot at Chef Mickey's than Artist Point. You call walk to CM from MK, no transportation required. The OP moving to AP would potentially open a spot for a resort guest to now dine at CM. Does CM have a walk up waitlist?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Many people are implying that Chef Mickey's probably lost money on this transfer. However I think it would be easier to fill a spot at Chef Mickey's than Artist Point. You call walk to CM from MK, no transportation required. The OP moving to AP would potentially open a spot for a resort guest to now dine at CM. Does CM have a walk up waitlist?

I don't know about walk ups for Chef Mickey's TBH but it def. is still possible they lost money as there were 8 people in the OP's party.

 

[Lewisc]

Hello all, So sorry if I caused controversy by creating this post. I was not going for that. I didn't' get to read all 100 posts but I did want to point out some things that might have been overlooked or i didn't mention:

1 - when I was referring to the old policy changing to the new 2hr, i was actually referring to the 24hr rule, Upon reading more, I understand there were multiple changes in between the 24hour cancel rule and the 2hr rule which changed more than 2 times. Several yrs ago, we were actually able to change reservation times/dates within 24hr window. I was not really aware of this new restriction for being able to change within the cancel window.

2 - We initially booked Chef Mickey's, and always intended on going to it. We merely saw an opportunity! perhaps from SOMEONE who had canceled their Artist point ADR just before 2 hours?? So we thought this was be a great opportunity for us. Our last trip we tried get an ADR at Artist Point but was never successful.s

3 - I fully understand the purpose of a cancellation policy. This is to prevent deliberate abuse of the system. But i'm confident i'm not who WDW is trying to go after with this NO-SHOW policy. We always show up for our ADRs that we book, and upon reading I now understand a bit more on why this rule was implemented. I guess there was a loophole that allowed people to park at resorts for free? 100% not my case either - we didn't even have car on our trip.

4 - the fact is we were attempting to move from 1 WDW restaurant to ANOTHER WDW restaurant. It's not like we canceled and left WDW property to eat somewhere else.

5 - MOST IMPORTANTLY - The 1st CM was extremely RUDE and was accusing and blaming ME as to why restaurants were 1/2 empty. It would have been much different if he said, So sorry, I'd like to make the change, but current policies prevent me from doing so. What possible reason to add those accusations to the conversation? he was very blunt, rude, and lied when he offered to move our reservation time but said none were available when indeed there was an opening for an hour later. This is where my post was mostly getting too.

I think with ADR cancellation/changes, there are lots of variables that can come into play that could easily allow a change outside of standard policies. Perhaps someone got sick/fever, transportation issues, etc.

Lastly, I think WDW should reconsider guests who want to modify from one WDW restaurant to another WDW restaurant. I think it's not totally unreasonable. At the end of the day, the other restaurant had an ADR opening which wasn't being filled, I'm now offering to fil it, i just transferred the opening to the other. It was a NET ZERO loss. Unless someone can explain otherwise.

1. You didn't read the cancellation terms when booking nor on your confirmation email. THAT'S ON YOU.
2. Same as 1. You assumed you could do what wanted.
3. The purpose to penalize guests who don't keep their reservations or cancel on a timely basis.
4. You wanted to cancel.a reservation and make a new reservation at a different restaurant. You're transferring the empty table from restaurant to another. A brand new booking is what Disney wants.
5. There are 2 sides to the conversation. The CM should have politely said no and that should have been that. I'll speculate you engaged the CM and asked for an explanation and or an exception. You weren't owed either. The CM doesn't know the reason and shouldn't have engaged you.

Exceptions when something out of the control of the guest occurs, sickness, is reasonable. Asking for an exception for something under the the control of the guest not so much.

I understand your points I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

@Chi35364 I hope you and your group enjoyed your meal. Lesson learned and next time READ what is on your reservations. This could have been avoided by doing so. As the emails from Disney tell you “ Know Before You Go “

 

[Chi35364]

I keep hearing that not all WDW restaurants are owned/managed by WDW. For example Disney Spring area is great example. This is a valid point made there. But did you also know that 99% of restaurants that require reservations don't have a fee for MODIFICATION or even worse, a NO SHOW. Some how they can manage the backend w/ staffing, food prep, etc. i guess it's a WDW thing that they don't know how to do?

But that has no bearing on my situation. Chef Mickys and Artist Point ARE owned and managed by WDW. At the end of the quarter, they flow through the same division P&L (Park, experiences and resorts) and earnings statement for the same corp.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I keep hearing that not all WDW restaurants are owned/managed by WDW. For example Disney Spring area is great example. This is a valid point made there. But did you also know that 99% of restaurants that require reservations don't have a fee for MODIFICATION or even worse, a NO SHOW. Some how they can manage the backend w/ staffing, food prep, etc. i guess it's a WDW thing that they don't know how to do?

But that has no bearing on my situation. Chef Mickys and Artist Point ARE owned and managed by WDW. At the end of the quarter, they flow through the same division P&L (Park, experiences and resorts) and earnings statement for the same corp.

How many restaurants take your CC info for the reservation? Because Disney does that and for a reason.

Have you never had a situation where you've made a reservation, you get there and yet you have to wait? Sometimes that's directly due to staffing issues. Restaurants that take reservations also determine that for staffing levels as well. They may either decide to increase staff based on reservations including how many are in a party--you were 8 people which is a lot for a table, when we went to Longhorn for my birthday we had a table of 9 and they had 2 servers for our table one for each side, that's not entirely uncommon as it's a lot for 1 server to be responsible for. We had made a reservation about 2 days in advance although we could have shown up it would have been quite the wait to get a party that large as there's about 4-5 tables total in the whole place that can accommodate that large and if they are shorter staffed it's going to take longer.

When people do cancel reservations especially close to the time it can cause a domino effect for the establishment. I know we've walked away from restaurants when they tell us the wait and it's too long and depending on the place they'll explain there's reservations being held for people. Hereford House-a steakhouse here is like that. One night we went there and they turned us away because they had no more ability to take in anyone because of their reservations starting in 30 mins and lasting for about 3 hours from then. Basically their staff was already accounted for. Had a reservation been last min cancelled they would have lost a table as they had to turn away walk ins.

This is general talk about staffing stuff you're mentioning for outside of Disney.

The reason several of us mentioned about who runs restaurants is because of your insistence you didn't leave property, you were just swapping restaurants, etc. Well at that point you're making general comments about your rationale and people are responding about general understandings that those points don't mean a rightful penalty should be waived

 

[EdnaMarieMode]

Justify it any way you want, but the reality is there is a policy in place. That policy for most dining experiences is cancellation required 2 hours prior or incur a fee.

That policy was put in place because of the number of people who cried about having to cancel 24 hours prior or by midnight the night before, and then those who used a loophole to modify a reservation so they could cancel it without a fee. If this wasn’t a problem for Disney why would they bother doing any of this? The bottom line is that it also doesn’t matter what the problem is that this creates for Disney, what matters is that Disney is a company and they put a policy in place to fix some issue they were having.

“I switched to Ohana before the morning of” is not relevant beyond demonstrating that you do this regularly enough and that you DO know there are policies in place. Maybe they didn’t have call-outs that day and had enough staff to accommodate additional reservations. Maybe they had someone cancel by midnight the night before if that was the policy in place at that time. Doesn’t matter. They’ve already made this exception for you once and now you think you’re entitled to it every time- which is exactly how policies change and things get taken away.

You were told no, and while I can agree that it’s unnecessary for the CM to be rude, I also don’t have both sides of that story. Because several people here have told you you’re in the wrong, and yet here you are arguing that it was done for you before and he was mean and you’re entitled. I worked in customer service long enough to know how the other side of that call tends to go.

 

[Moliphino]

2 - We initially booked Chef Mickey's, and always intended on going to it. We merely saw an opportunity! perhaps from SOMEONE who had canceled their Artist point ADR just before 2 hours?? So we thought this was be a great opportunity for us. Our last trip we tried get an ADR at Artist Point but was never successful.

And maybe they paid the $10 per person fee.

3 - I fully understand the purpose of a cancellation policy. This is to prevent deliberate abuse of the system. But i'm confident i'm not who WDW is trying to go after with this NO-SHOW policy. We always show up for our ADRs that we book, and upon reading I now understand a bit more on why this rule was implemented.

LOL. Of course you are.

 

[mom2rtk]

LOL. Of course you are.

Apparently the second cast member the PP spoke with didn't think so.

 

[HopperFan]

But that has no bearing on my situation. Chef Mickys and Artist Point ARE owned and managed by WDW. At the end of the quarter, they flow through the same division P&L (Park, experiences and resorts) and earnings statement for the same corp.

You don't seem to understand accounting and especially accounting at Disney.

Chef Mickey and Artist Point are NOT on the same P&L, are not managed by the same people, do not mix their profits and losses - they keep them for themselves. They are independent profit centers, within hotels who are independent profit centers. They are all responsible to produce at projected income which they then pass on profits to the mother company.

So Chef Mickey took a big hit when you cancelled last minute and especially since they didn't get the cancellation fee that you owed. And no they can't easily replace those in an hour being in a resort (parks are much easier). Chef Mickey's management will be the one questioned when they are under projections, over on expenses etc.

Bottom line there is a very clear cancellation policy.

 

[Lewisc]

I keep hearing that not all WDW restaurants are owned/managed by WDW. For example Disney Spring area is great example. This is a valid point made there. But did you also know that 99% of restaurants that require reservations don't have a fee for MODIFICATION or even worse, a NO SHOW. Some how they can manage the backend w/ staffing, food prep, etc. i guess it's a WDW thing that they don't know how to do?

But that has no bearing on my situation. Chef Mickys and Artist Point ARE owned and managed by WDW. At the end of the quarter, they flow through the same division P&L (Park, experiences and resorts) and earnings statement for the same corp.

It must be frustrating. You keep making similar posts but most posters don't agree with.
It's irrelevant what 99% of other restaurants do. Disney's reasons are irrelevant. Disney told you the policy when you booked via.a web notice and email.

You didn't fill a hole caused by a cancelled close in reservation. You transferred it from one restaurant to another.

You called until you could persuade a CM to make an unwarranted exception.

Let it go. You weren't charged.