Interesting article about a Gay town....

my4kids

DIS Veteran<br><font color=darkorchid>Oh God, I'm
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Just saw this on Reuters....was wondering what people here thought - has anyone ever seen this kind of reverse discrimination?




PROVINCETOWN, Massachusetts (Reuters) - Provincetown, New England's summer gay capital, is facing a rise in harassment and discrimination. But this time it's straight people who say they are being ridiculed as "breeders" and "baby makers."

Less than a decade after a successful campaign to end violent paroxysms of "gay bashing" in the beach town at the tip of Cape Cod in Massachusetts, police and town officials report a resurgence in tension between gays and straight people.

Police Chief Ted Meyer said straight people complained of being called "breeders" over the July Fourth holiday weekend, and that in one serious incident a man was charged with assaulting a woman who signed a petition to ban same-sex marriage in Massachusetts, the only state where it is legal.

Equally troubling, he said, Jamaican workers in Provincetown say they have been the target of racial slurs.

"It's been a series of issues," Meyer said.

The flare-ups in a town that overflows in summer with a colorful mix of gay couples often openly holding hands or kissing, cross-dressers and flocks of curious tourists coincide with a planned vote this year in the state Legislature on an amendment to ban gay marriage -- a measure that has rallied activists on both sides of the issue.

Gay-marriage advocates have set up a Web site -- www.knowthyneighbor.org -- that publishes the names of people who have signed the petition, including at least two locals in Provincetown who say they have been singled out and verbally abused by gays since their names appeared on the Web site.

Town officials said the town is struggling to strike a balance between protecting the right to freedom of expression for petition signers, and ensuring its gay majority contain their anger at what many see as an assault on their hard-won right to marriage.

Police would not classify the slurs and name-calling as "hate crimes." But a town meeting was called last Friday to discuss whether social attitudes were changing in the gay resort village with a population of 3,431 that swells to 60,000 in summer and includes a large number of Jamaicans.

'HELLO, YOU'RE IN OUR TOWN'

"We have business that we haven't talked about as a family," Town Manager Keith Bergman said. "The impact of the same sex marriage petition is high on that list."

Some gays expressed shock at being accused of discrimination after years of suffering harassment.

"There are still a lot of straight people who treat gays badly," said Steve Bowersock, 35, an artist who owns the Bowersock Gallery on the town's main Commercial Street.

Bowersock, who was once married to a woman, said he moved to Provincetown in 2004 with his partner because it gives gays a political voice. He admits he sometimes discriminates against straight people he finds offensive

"If there's a straight couple and I hear them in the background going 'oh fags', I'm like 'hello, where the hell do you think you are?' So in turn I get mad," he said.

"If I see someone nervous like a big butch guy, and you can just tell he's a redneck, I'll grab my partner and I'll kiss him. It's not being mean, but 'hello you're in our town'."

The Rev. Henry J. Dahl, pastor at St. Peter's Church, said several of his parishioners had complained to him of being singled out and verbally abused after signing the petition.

"I don't think it's totally unexpected that there would be some reaction to people who signed the petition," he said. "Let's just hope we can have civil discourse."

Joe Solmonese, president of gay rights group Human Rights Campaign, said the petition signers invited trouble by taking a position that says "loud and clear that you believe that gays and lesbians should be treated as second class citizens."
 
Actually reverse discrimination means to treat a member of the oppressed group better because that person belongs to the group.

However, the street meaning that you express is fairly common.

What is there to think? :confused3 People are people. Some people retaliate in kind when faced with discrimination or bigoted statements, some don't.

It's nice to think that the group who has been treated badly would never treat another group badly, but that isn't always the case.
 
I read that article and was very disappointed. Laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation apply to everyone---gay, straight, bisexual. Discrimination is discrimination. Period.
 
I didn't think too much of it until the end of the article when the president of the Gay Rights Group said that anyone who signed the petition had invited trouble. That almost sounded mafia like. Like "do and act the way we want you to or else" Very scary, he should be made to resign. Not only because of his comments , but because he could hardly be furthering the cause of Gay Rights by behaving that way.

The other comments by the man who would kiss his partner - that didn't bother me at all except that he was deciding to do it only because the guy "looked" like a "red-neck" talk about labeling.

Being an obvious "breeder" myself, I don't know how I would react if someone said that to me. I might laugh, might say, "well -thank you , you're too kind" but even though the word would not offend...I think I would be scared of any stranger that was calling me names for no reason other than the fact I have kids and husband.

You're right abut people being people, it happens in all groups.
 

I read that article, and then a few days later read this letter to the editor about it:

OH, BOO HOO. Some residents of Provincetown signed a public petition on a vital, highly contested matter of public policy (``A new intolerance visits Provincetown," Page 1, July 14). They went on the public record -- in a town known worldwide as a safe haven for gay and lesbian people -- as opposing a basic civil right for a substantial portion of the population. And they are surprised when their action bears consequences and public reproval? Please.

Being called a ``breeder" doesn't even begin to compare with the words that gay and lesbian people get called on a regular basis . Nor does it compare with the actual physical danger that most gay people would face if they, for example, walked down a street in South or East Boston holding hands.

Why does this incident become front page news ? Worse slurs against gays and racial minorities get uttered here in Harvard Square each day, but the Globe writes nothing about that.
 
I must agree. Bashing is inappropriate no matter who the recipient or offender. However, GLBT are truly bashed on a daily basis in big cites and small towns all over the country. We are denied basic civil rights. We are equated with subhuman animals in the eyes of many republicans and most right wing christians. Being called a breeder may be unpleasant, but no more so than the tremendous challenge GLBT folks face every day. Why wasn't my anti-gay mugging in the 80's not even mentioned in the paper? I'd say my trip to the hospital was a bit worse than being called names.

Now, regarding the list. Has anyone called for the resignation of right wing christian groups who publish the names of physicians who perform abortions? Signing a petition legally provides no protection of anonymity. This is public record. So while I agree, it is distasteful, nevertheless it's right out of the republicab playbook. Sometimes, when you're pushed against the wall, fighting fire with fire seems the only way to go. I doubt there would be as many Klan members if they were required to lift their sheets. (No I'm not equating the two necessarily, but simply acknowledging what people will do when they believe they can do it secretly).

Everyone is looking for a reason to consider themselves as put upon. Remember last summer when a Chicago cafe owner posted a sign asking parents very nicely to please control their children? The outcry from parents suggested that he was trying to send them to the gas chamber! Heck, if the parents would deal with their children in a manner that encourages good behaviour instead of rewarding anarchy, it wouldn't have been necessary. Was this wrong or was this taken and blown entirely out of proportion as an attack on family.

This is media hype and apparently it worked. I'd be curious to know who owns the media outlet from which the story originated.
 
Psychometrika said:
I must agree. Bashing is inappropriate no matter who the recipient or offender. However, GLBT are truly bashed on a daily basis in big cites and small towns all over the country. We are denied basic civil rights. We are equated with subhuman animals in the eyes of many republicans and most right wing christians. Being called a breeder may be unpleasant, but no more so than the tremendous challenge GLBT folks face every day. Why wasn't my anti-gay mugging in the 80's not even mentioned in the paper? I'd say my trip to the hospital was a bit worse than being called names.

Now, regarding the list. Has anyone called for the resignation of right wing christian groups who publish the names of physicians who perform abortions? Signing a petition legally provides no protection of anonymity. This is public record. So while I agree, it is distasteful, nevertheless it's right out of the republicab playbook. Sometimes, when you're pushed against the wall, fighting fire with fire seems the only way to go. I doubt there would be as many Klan members if they were required to lift their sheets. (No I'm not equating the two necessarily, but simply acknowledging what people will do when they believe they can do it secretly).

Everyone is looking for a reason to consider themselves as put upon. Remember last summer when a Chicago cafe owner posted a sign asking parents very nicely to please control their children? The outcry from parents suggested that he was trying to send them to the gas chamber! Heck, if the parents would deal with their children in a manner that encourages good behaviour instead of rewarding anarchy, it wouldn't have been necessary. Was this wrong or was this taken and blown entirely out of proportion as an attack on family.

This is media hype and apparently it worked. I'd be curious to know who owns the media outlet from which the story originated.


I'm right there with ya on the media hype bit.....just remember that there could be 5000 peaceful demonstations agaisnt abortion that would never hit the paper (because they are not very interesting) and then one way out crazy murderer kills a doctor and that's all you hear about for a month. Although it is newsworthy, it would lead people to think that all pro-lifers are like that.

Anyway, I'm sure this is a bit hyped, and comments could have been taken out of context - and ofcourse, nothing about it compares to what the gay popultion has had to endure, but it still ain't right. I don't like when groups separate themselves. We vacation at Rehobeth Beach which is also a gay town - and I have never had one experience that would make me feel intimidated, or anything outside of just being another family enjoying a vacation....everyone just gets along and enjoys the beautiful town. I just hated reading that article because I think it would be a step back for gay rights.

By the way you made a hugely broad statement about Republicans (I am republican, live in a republican town, and I feel nothing but brotherly love for my gay friends and neighbors as do everyone I know around me) We get a bad rap in the liberal owned media you know.
 
my4kids said:
I didn't think too much of it until the end of the article when the president of the Gay Rights Group said that anyone who signed the petition had invited trouble. That almost sounded mafia like. Like "do and act the way we want you to or else" Very scary, he should be made to resign. Not only because of his comments , but because he could hardly be furthering the cause of Gay Rights by behaving that way.


I agree. The thought of harassing people simply because they signed a petition is very frightening.
 
Makes me wonder how many people get harassed into signing petitions. Perhaps harassed is too strong, but pressured at least. I was involved in checking signatures on a petition in IL for a state constitutional ban on gay marriage. It was pretty clear that they were distributed in or near churches (or some club setting). I wonder how many people who signed, did so because a fellow church member asked them too. Not too many people will stand up to an authority figure (or a peer) and express their dissenting beliefs.
 
Makes me wonder how the gay residents are going to react when Family Pride Coalition has Family Week there the first week of August. Are they going to call the gay parents breeders as well. I am sorry to hear this is going on as we have always enjoyed our vacations and Family Weeks in Ptown and I am disappointed this is going on. I firmly believe discrimination is wrong regardless of the source.
 
my4kids said:
By the way you made a hugely broad statement about Republicans (I am republican, live in a republican town, and I feel nothing but brotherly love for my gay friends and neighbors as do everyone I know around me) We get a bad rap in the liberal owned media you know.

I think if you go back you'll see that I said "many" republicans. I would have been justified in saying most, as most voted for Bush who stands against every moral fibre in my being. My generalization was thusly categorized but clearly there are those who support us.

The notion of a Liberal Owned media too is an example of the left getting the best lines, as it were. Once established, it is repeated as if it were factual. I am going to try and find the study but if you really look at the media, with an honest and open eye, it can hardly be categorized as liberal (in the perjorative sense in which it is used in this expression). The study compared coverage of stories over a two year period. There was in fact no "liberal" bias and was weighted in the conservative direction. The notion that "hollywood" is more liberal than conservative (actors/actresses) does not translate to news media, particularly print media. Apart from some notable exceptions (NYT being one) the majority of newspapers are owned by clearly conservative organizations. This is growing increasingly true as corporate mergers and losses in newspaper revenues continue to grow.

In the Reagan era, "liberal" became a bad word, even among liberals! It is such a shame. Liberals brought our elderly social security, when conservatives talked of chickens in every pot. Liberals brought us the voting rights act when the "dixiecrats" (soon to be the more modern conservatives) were lynching African Americans on school steps. Liberals have brought to our society many amazing and wonderful things. I am a liberal, and proud of it. It's too bad the democratic party has lost its message. When Bush, as he just did yesterday, talks about the "Party of Lincoln" its a sham. Neither the Dems nor Repubs are what they were in 1865. They don't even resemble what they were in 1965! What we can hope is that the principles of Lincoln, King and others will be embraced by ALL parties someday.
 
my4kids said:
I'm right there with ya on the media hype bit.....just remember that there could be 5000 peaceful demonstations agaisnt abortion that would never hit the paper (because they are not very interesting) and then one way out crazy murderer kills a doctor and that's all you hear about for a month. Although it is newsworthy, it would lead people to think that all pro-lifers are like that.

.


hmmm I didnt think that until I recieved some very "nice" email from somebody from the DIS yesterday! (and I am gay...how likley do you think I am ever going to actually consider having an abortion? but all she did was prompt me to make a big donation to NARAL today!!)

Hmm is it right to call people names? No but do I on occasion call straight people breeders?…..yes. I mean how much can we as a population be spit upon by our own citizens and just be expected to sit there and take it? Sorry but I do hear the comments everyday, I have my car spray painted with nice pretty words (while parked in my driveway) and I live in small town usa. So if straight people want to cry about a few people calling them names let them keep crying. I know its not right but I am just so fed up!

I just don’t get it, I don’t go to a NASCAR event and complain about the amount of , shall we say , rednecks that are there because thats who I would expect to be there! (and yes I know that was more name calling , I was just trying to make a point)
 
Tell you what. Let's make a deal.

All you straight people guarantee that no-one will call anyone any names because of their sexuality. Also, no-one will get beaten up for their sexual orientation. Nor will they be deprived of their rights, harassed, fired, denied housing, denied social security benefits, denied inheritance rights, denied the right to visit their partner in the hospital, have their children taken away, be subjected to any sort of legal discrimination whatsoever, or murdered because of their sexual orientation.

And I'll personally guarantee that no gay person will ever call a straight person a breeder again.

Sound fair?

My point being, I am unable to take responsibility for the actions of all other homosexuals in the world, just as any straight person is able to take responsibility for the actions of all the other straight people in the world. Sure, some of us behave badly. Some of you do too. Posting an article about the excesses of a few gay people in a gay and lesbian forum is going to prove what, exactly? That we should all be ashamed? Is there some sort of object lesson you're trying to teach here? Or is it another example, much like we see around the time of gay pride parades, of "look at the naughty, naughty gay people"?

Taking the actions of a select few and trying to extrapolate that behavior to a larger group is the definition of prejudice. The actions of these people don't say a single thing about me, or about gay people in general.

Except that some of us don't behave very well from time to time.

Clean up your side of the fence, and we'll clean up ours.

No offense, but you've got a bigger job to do.
 
LukenDC said:
I read that article and was very disappointed. Laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation apply to everyone---gay, straight, bisexual. Discrimination is discrimination. Period.


Very true. Discrimination works in all directions which is what makes it so insidious. We're all guilty even if we don't want to admit it.

:guilty: :guilty: :guilty: :guilty:
 
This is what I think:

I think this was a VERY rare occurance and by reporting it the media blew it out of proportion. I doubt there are gangs of homosexuals roaming the streets of Provincetown taunting and pointing at all of the straight people yelling "breeder". I also think the Republican party and the Catholic church are somewhat to blame (not all republicans or catholics, but the party and church as a whole). You can only push people so far until they start to push back. And the republican party and the catholic church have been pushing and pushing for quite some time now.

I also think if a person signs a petition, which is a matter of public record, to take away the rights of others, and if one of the people whose rights are being threatened finds out about it, they have the right to question the person who is trying to take away their rights.

In a few days I will be heading down to Provincetown for a vacation. I will report back on all of the "straight bashing" I see.
 
MrVisible said:
Posting an article about the excesses of a few gay people in a gay and lesbian forum is going to prove what, exactly? That we should all be ashamed? Is there some sort of object lesson you're trying to teach here? Or is it another example, much like we see around the time of gay pride parades, of "look at the naughty, naughty gay people"?


I wasn't trying to prove anything. I agreed that these events are isolated and EXTREMELY rare. That is why I shared the article, I was surprised by it as I have never read or heard of anything like it. I think if I posted it in the "Redneck at Disney" forum that would be try to prove these things.
No need to be accusatory .
 
donald...really said:
This is what I think:

I think this was a VERY rare occurance and by reporting it the media blew it out of proportion. I doubt there are gangs of homosexuals roaming the streets of Provincetown taunting and pointing at all of the straight people yelling "breeder". I also think the Republican party and the Catholic church are somewhat to blame (not all republicans or catholics, but the party and church as a whole). You can only push people so far until they start to push back. And the republican party and the catholic church have been pushing and pushing for quite some time now.

I also think if a person signs a petition, which is a matter of public record, to take away the rights of others, and if one of the people whose rights are being threatened finds out about it, they have the right to question the person who is trying to take away their rights.

In a few days I will be heading down to Provincetown for a vacation. I will report back on all of the "straight bashing" I see.


Honestly - not trying to argue. But I was curious what you meant by the Catholic Church (as a whole) being somewhat to blame. Honestly as a Catholic, I find the church to be extremely liberal (and I'm using that word the way it is meant - not with and nasty tone). Anti-war -the whole bit. The only thing that they don't agree with the Democratic Party on is abortion. Yes it is true, that as Christians, they believe in traditional marriage. But I gotta say they (we) are one of the most homosexually tolerant Christian religions. In fact I am quite sure that my dearly loved parish priest is gay. (He has taken a vow of celebacy - but if he weren't a priest - I'm sure he would live a gay lifestyle. ) There is a Catholic church in my city that holds Gay Catholic group meetings in their church. And you should see all the gay couples at their Masses. I would not have been surprised if you said Evangelical Christians were somewhat to blame. They are a whole'nother story. Although traditionally the church has viewed homosexuality as "not in God's plan" - I think today we have been "woken up" and realize this is part of our society and we are all God's children.

Anyway - I'm sure you have specific info to back up your claim and I am now donning my flame-retardent suit, but again, please don't read my post as argumentative, I just found your comment interesting and was curious on what you support it.
 
Gay people are called names everyday, and when we start reporting on that and making a big deal, I will worry about it... until then, if you don't want to be called a "Breeder" than I suggest you stay out of Proviencetown and when you are there don't be signing petitions about not supporting Gay marriage, you are asking for trouble. I do not go into Tennesse and sign Gay Marriage rights in front of straight people there, and if I did I would expect to be called a few choice words (if not beat up). So, get off your high horses, and don't be in Proviencetown with anti-Gay Marriage Petitions. The only reason they are there anyways is to create drama-- and they call us "Drama Queens".
 
hamlet35_2000 said:
Gay people are called names everyday, and when we start reporting on that and making a big deal, I will worry about it... until then, if you don't want to be called a "Breeder" than I suggest you stay out of Proviencetown and when you are there don't be signing petitions about not supporting Gay marriage, you are asking for trouble. I do not go into Tennesse and sign Gay Marriage rights in front of straight people there, and if I did I would expect to be called a few choice words (if not beat up). So, get off your high horses, and don't be in Proviencetown with anti-Gay Marriage Petitions. The only reason they are there anyways is to create drama-- and they call us "Drama Queens".

"Stay out of Provincetown? It's not privately owned and EVERYONE should be allowed to visit where they please without fear of being harrassed. Your attitude is as degrading and insulting as a homophobic person telling you to stay out of their neighborhood. Recheck your thinking.


As for those folks who go into P-town with that petition, yes, they're idiots. but they're idiots for doing what they're doing, regardless of where they are doing it. And yes, I do think they went in to specifically target a "gay area" in the hopes of getting that reaction so they could report it. But that does NOT make it right.

ANY type of harrassment is digusting, whether heterosexuals calling us names or we calling them names. Pure and simple, it's sickening.
 















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