Inspired by the polygamist thread - How many kids are acceptable

[cats mom]

It ticks me off that if you have a whole bunch of kids that society sees you as some kind of hero, that they think all you made all these "miracles" (NO they are not. All you did was have sex, not walk on water), and the media puts you on a pedestal for simply reproducing a lot.
snip
But to me, having more than 3 or 4 in this day and age just seems antiquated, and I have to wonder if the woman sees herself as more than a "baby machine."

I found this interesting. It seems to me that in general societal attitudes about large families tend to be more negative (ie your last statement) than making families with a lot of kids look like heros.

 

[Free4Life11]

Does that mean you should not take the tax credits for children? Since people without children don't get that tax credit, are not they in essance subsidizing people with children who take the credit?

Taking the tax credits does not mean you can't financially afford children. It just means you are taking advantage of benefits the government offers. No one could support a child on the tax credit alone. It is a government subsidy. Individual people do not subsidize, unless they are directly sending a check to support someone (like child support.)

 

[Hannathy]

I agree with the posters who say if the Parents want that many kids they should take care of them not the older kids. Helping is one thing being resposible for all the cooking is not helping. When are they supposed to be kids? And about the clothes you tell me any 16 year old girl is going to willingly pick those jumpers? How appropriate is it for a Mother to dress just like her 3 yr old and her teenager. My 14 yr. DD thinks those dresses are hideous and she isn't even into clothes like a lot of other kids her age. Let the older kids be kids and not unpaid servants and see how many more babies she has. And along these lines we keep getting told that class size has to be smaller so the teacher can work effectively with the students THey are getting close to this number themselves(class size) and they say each child gets attention so who is right them or the teachers.

The original quetion- what you can truly afford -no reduced lunches, food stamps, etc- and give quality attention to.

 

[lulugirl]

I can't believe people think they aren't footing the bill for others. I don't care how many children people have but I think it's naive to think taxpayers do not subsidize children's well being.

I really don't think getting a higher tax credit means taxpayers are "footing the bill".

 

[Free4Life11]

I really don't think getting a higher tax credit means taxpayers are "footing the bill".

I can't stand that phrase. A $1000 tax credit is not footing the bill. And if we are going to start looking at what tax dollars go to what, we're ALL "footing the bill" for someone for something.

 

[chobie]

I can't stand that phrase. A $1000 tax credit is not footing the bill. And if we are going to start looking at what tax dollars go to what, we're ALL "footing the bill" for someone for something.

Exactly, so one way or another we are helping to subsidize families that choose to pop out babies like rabbits. So, maybe you should qualify your statement to say that you are okay with people having as many children as they want as long they are not being completley supported by public money.

Personally, I'm not okay with that. Unless its a family that has adopted several hard-to-place children. I would gladly help foot the bill as a taxpayer for a family like that.

 

[chobie]

Taking the tax credits does not mean you can't financially afford children. It just means you are taking advantage of benefits the government offers. No one could support a child on the tax credit alone. It is a government subsidy. Individual people do not subsidize, unless they are directly sending a check to support someone (like child support.)

And where does the government get this money to subsidize people with children?

 

[KelNottAt]

I don’t care how many kids someone has as long as they’re properly cared for (emotionally, financially, and physically, as others have posted above).

What gets me though, is something I have seen in no less than 4 women I know. They made it look like they accidentally got pregnant when the youngest child was entering school. Years later, these women openly and freely admitted to me that their pregnancies were deliberate.

They had their “oops” babies just so they wouldn’t have to return to the workforce. I am neither kidding nor exaggerating that I really know 4 women who did this. I just can’t justify the dishonest and manipulative reason for bringing a child into the world. In a 2 cases, they say the husbands still don’t know.

 

[Free4Life11]

Exactly, so one way or another we are helping to subsidize families that choose to pop out babies like rabbits. So, maybe you should qualify your statement to say that you are okay with people having as many children as they want as long they are not being completley supported by public money.

I'm not qualifying anything. This is a friggin' message board. You are making this more complicated than it has to be. Seriously, don't read so much into what I said.

And where does the government get this money to subsidize people with children?

Taxpayers. So are you saying that those with children pay taxes? My parents always got the credit but they also always paid.

 

[mommapoppins]

I think the Duggars go beyond just having the siblings help each other out. On that show they had the girls from like ages 8-14 doing all the cooking for the entire family and they made that oldest son build the mansion for the younger siblings even though he will be an adult once its built. That's bordering on slave labor IMO.

If the mom was sitting on her bum sipping Coca-Cola all day long, then yes that would be slave labor. Expecting a child to contribute to the family because they are part of the family - not slave labor. There is more to having the girls make dinner than just making dinner than having food put on the table... it is training for when they grow up and become mothers themselves.

It amazes me to see how people feel free to judge others by a few small glimpses into their lives. You have seen only about 45 minutes of the daily lives of the Duggars, and IMHO no one can really say whether or not those kids are neglected by their mother, or whether they have time to "be kids." Just because there is a one-hour show about a family does not give America an all seeing eye into their home.

I happen to think that those parents are doing a better job with their children than a lot of people who have only one or two kids. The mom is home every day for any problems that may arise in the children's lives, and they sit down for dinner together every night. They use every day situations to teach life skills, and teach family togetherness and responsibility by having the older children help out the younger children.

Many families in today's fast paced society have completely forgotten about BEING a family. The parents work 80 hours a week, and try to compensate their children for not being there for them by buying them frivolous gifts. They cart them off to dance lessons, music lessons, sports, and whatever else the Jones's down the street might be doing, and miss out on their children's childhood in the process. IMHO, a 9-yr-old in a girl band that is making a record is having less time to "be a kid" than the Duggar kids who have plenty of time to read (No TV), play games together, etc.

I think the Duggar family is the way that God intended families to be... they love each other, help each other and look out for the interests of the others. The problem is that because some of us KNOW that we wouldn't be able to handle 15 kids, we think that no else can.

 

[RobinMarie]

I really don't think getting a higher tax credit means taxpayers are "footing the bill".

I wasn't referring to a tax credit.

 

[In a hurry]

If a family can afford to raise happy well-loved children it is their business if they choose to do so. As for the whole tax issue...if a family is raising happy well-loved children, I will happily "foot" a tax credit. The world needs more happy well-loved people, nstead of a bunch of emotionally defective crabby ones!

No comment on the Duggers. They are just plain creepy to me.

...They also have the right to own as many kitties as they want as long as they are loved, fed and thier home is not the litter box! (They just had to burn down a house near me that had 61 cats...all fed, but they peed everywhere!

 

[lulugirl]

I wasn't referring to a tax credit.

What were you referring to?

 

[Free4Life11]

I wasn't referring to a tax credit.

Not to be rude, but what then? Public education is really the only thing I can think of, aside from public assistance programs which many people with children don't qualify for.

 

[chobie]

I'm not qualifying anything. This is a friggin' message board. You are making this more complicated than it has to be. Seriously, don't read so much into what I said.



Taxpayers. So are you saying that those with children pay taxes? My parents always got the credit but they also always paid.

I'm just saying that people who pay less taxes by virtue of having children are in essence being subsidzied by people who have to pay more taxes because they do not have children. Yes, your parents paid taxes, but they paid less then those who did not take have children.

If one is concerned about their tax dollars going to to pay for other people's children, then one should resent the child tax credit as well as welfare.

And if you can't tolerate people commenting on your comments, then maybe you should refrain from posting on message boards.

 

[Free4Life11]

Yes, your parents paid taxes, but they paid less then those who did not take have children.

Not necessarily.

If one is concerned about their tax dollars going to to pay for other people's children, then one should resent the child tax credit as well as welfare.

And I understand a lot of people think like that. I'm glad I'm not one of them.

And if you can't tolerate people commenting on your comments, then maybe you should refrain from posting on message boards.

I can tolerate comments.

 

[chobie]

If the mom was sitting on her bum sipping Coca-Cola all day long, then yes that would be slave labor. Expecting a child to contribute to the family because they are part of the family - not slave labor. There is more to having the girls make dinner than just making dinner than having food put on the table... it is training for when they grow up and become mothers themselves.
It amazes me to see how people feel free to judge others by a few small glimpses into their lives. You have seen only about 45 minutes of the daily lives of the Duggars, and IMHO no one can really say whether or not those kids are neglected by their mother, or whether they have time to "be kids." Just because there is a one-hour show about a family does not give America an all seeing eye into their home.

I happen to think that those parents are doing a better job with their children than a lot of people who have only one or two kids. The mom is home every day for any problems that may arise in the children's lives, and they sit down for dinner together every night. They use every day situations to teach life skills, and teach family togetherness and responsibility by having the older children help out the younger children.

Many families in today's fast paced society have completely forgotten about BEING a family. The parents work 80 hours a week, and try to compensate their children for not being there for them by buying them frivolous gifts. They cart them off to dance lessons, music lessons, sports, and whatever else the Jones's down the street might be doing, and miss out on their children's childhood in the process. IMHO, a 9-yr-old in a girl band that is making a record is having less time to "be a kid" than the Duggar kids who have plenty of time to read (No TV), play games together, etc.

I think the Duggar family is the way that God intended families to be... they love each other, help each other and look out for the interests of the others. The problem is that because some of us KNOW that we wouldn't be able to handle 15 kids, we think that no else can.

Okay, first of all what makes you think a girl will or must grow up to be a mother and if she chooses to become a mother that she will be the only one responsible for making them dinner? Should not the boys also have to learn to cook for the potential children they might father?

And again, these people have chosen to broadcast their lives to the world to profit off of their fecundity. They have chosen to put themselves out their for public comment.

 

[disykat]

One comment on the Duggars - my mom worked in the afternoon and I was responsible for making dinner from age 11 through 18. I never knew I was abused until I started reading these threads! I thought I was part of a family who pitched in to do what needed to be done.

I think people can have as many kids as they want and can afford to feed, etc. without taxpayer help. For many people that's 0 - so it evens out population wise. I know a couple of people with 5 - 7 kids and they're all pretty normal.

 

[chobie]

Not necessarily.



And I understand a lot of people think like that. I'm glad I'm not one of them.



I can tolerate comments.

Think like what? Resent people on welfare? I don't, but many people do. And when you make a comment like "as long as they can afford to take care of those kids", I take it to mean as long as they are not on public assistance?

 

[chobie]

One comment on the Duggars - my mom worked in the afternoon and I was responsible for making dinner from age 11 through 18. I never knew I was abused until I started reading these threads! I thought I was part of a family who pitched in to do what needed to be done.

I think people can have as many kids as they want and can afford to feed, etc. without taxpayer help. For many people that's 0 - so it evens out population wise. I know a couple of people with 5 - 7 kids and they're all pretty normal.

Yes, but were you also responsible for your siblings from the moment you got up until the moment you went to bed? Were you also responsible for making your own clothes?