Inspired by First Lady thread-Who here considers themself to be a feminist?

[shortbun]

Feminism has evolved for many into humanism. Acceptance
of all the feminist ideals for men and women is paramount. IMHO
very conservative religious beliefs putting the man at the "head"
of the household do not embody humanism as they represent that very patriarchal scheme from which feminism was born. I
helped my god daughter research feminism for a class last year.
She held me up as a feminist. As a humanist, I do believe that
women are still VERY behind in their basic rights all over the world.
Even here, we have a political system that basically forces women
to a different standard-ie. Terese Heinz Kerry's constantly being
bashed for being too outspoken and all the discrediting things
said about her. That Laura Bush be held up as a standard for
women because she stays in a position of submission re her husband is simply unbelievable in 2004. I think she has taken
several decades of progress for women and tossed them into
the fire pit. Her silence is deafening. When she does speak, it is
meaningless. We may have to go to that pit, burn our bras(figuratively) and march again thanks to Laura Bush and women
like her who are afraid to go into the world speaking their minds.
They are still allowing a bunch of old white men to run this country
and they think it's all good.
Well behaved women rarely make history.

 

[disney4us2002]

Originally posted by shortbun
That Laura Bush be held up as a standard for
women because she stays in a position of submission re her husband is simply unbelievable in 2004. I think she has taken
several decades of progress for women and tossed them into
the fire pit. Her silence is deafening. When she does speak, it is
meaningless. We may have to go to that pit, burn our bras(figuratively) and march again thanks to Laura Bush and women
like her who are afraid to go into the world speaking their minds.
They are still allowing a bunch of old white men to run this country
and they think it's all good.
Well behaved women rarely make history.

What a crock of crapola! I didn't see posts saying that Mrs. Bush was being held as a standard "because she stays in a position of submission". That is your interpretation. Many think she has class because she isn't obnoxious; she isn't submissive to her husband, she is respectful to both him as an individual and as the country's leader. How can someone claim to be a feminist and say they support women and then turn and bash a woman for her choices? That is truly rich!

 

[poohandwendy]

Sorry, but i had to respond to this:

Terese Heinz Kerry's constantly being bashed for being too outspoken and all the discrediting things said about her.

No, THK is 'bashed' for being crass. I have yet to hear anyone say she is 'too outspoken'.

That Laura Bush be held up as a standard for women because she stays in a position of submission re her husband is simply unbelievable in 2004.

Laura Bush is held up as a standard because she has class and it shows, IMO. What gives you the authority to say that she 'stays in a position of submission re her husband'? Do you have any facts to back that statement up? She was not elected by the people, is not employed by the people and is not required to shout an important message from the rooftops to appease the american people. She may actually, gasp, prefer to stay out of the limelight. Is that a crime?

I think she has taken several decades of progress for women and tossed them into the fire pit. Her silence is deafening. When she does speak, it is meaningless. We may have to go to that pit, burn our bras(figuratively) and march again thanks to Laura Bush and women like her who are afraid to go into the world speaking their minds.

Wow, I suppose only those who are world leaders, making a global difference, shouting from a bullhorn have any real value as women, eh? Sounds like the typical "I totally support ALL women and their choices, well, except the ones who do things differently than me" mentality.

Btw, who said LB doesn't speak her mind? Oh, that's right, she doesn't do it the way YOU want her to....

 

[Beth76]

I used to think I was the antithesis of feminism because I have mostly taken on a role that is considered for the "traditional woman". I don't have a career and I don't strive for a career. I did go to college, but I majored in Home Economics. Well, it's not called Home Ec anymore, it's called Human Environmental Sciences (nice Euphemism, huh?) That's where Interior Design falls into at my University.

I had a (male) friend who joked that I was getting my M.R.S. degree (that's OK b/c he joked he was there getting his M.R. degree ). So, while I didn't attend college *just* to find a husband, it didn't hurt to pick one up while I was there.

So, I got married and had kids. I choose to stay at home with them (rather than have a career) because that is important to me and my family. So, my husband says that I am a feminist because I'm doing what I *choose* to do and I support other women in their choices.

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
No, I would not classify myself as a feminist. Mainly because I do not see myself fitting into a group based on the specific rights of women or any other group. I believe in equal rights for all. Period.

What turns me off to the feminist ''movement'' is the unwritten "if you are born with ovaries you must support others with ovaries club' mentality.

Sorry, I support people I respect... woman, man, black, white, asian, german, jew, buddist...

ITA

 

[luvmk]

It's kind of funny to see people criticize Laura Bush and her behavior. The thread yesterday about the first lady made me do a little more research on Laura. After doing a search, I found several articles from various sources that state she isn't one for public speaking, doesn't feel comfortable with it, but 9/11 made her change her position and now she speaks more. Forbes magazine listed her as #4 of most powerful women in 2004. She has also done many speaking engagements on literacy. I believe that it's her platform. She has started the Laura Bush foundation which has helped to raise money for libraries across the country to help raise awareness about illiteracy. She has also been very involved in womens health issues, especially heart disease. She helped to get more money for the National Institute of Health for the purpose of researching womens health. I know she may not be a vocal person, but to say she hasn't done anything isn't fair. Just because people may not consider illiteracy exciting and newsworthy doesn't mean it isn't important. What's more important is that she found something close to her heart that she feels passionate about and chose to do something with it.

It was also very interesting to see the articles that stated if people consider Laura meek and mild, then they don't know her. In one article with CNN she commented that she becomes irritated that people think she just sits in the background with nothing to say because it isn't true.

I just did a google search on her name and this is just a few of the things that came up.


Rachel

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by crazyforgoofy
Um, I think it does! Would you like me to teach you the secret handshake?

LOL - sure why not! I just have never been much of a joiner! You know, it's that old thing about not wanting to belong to a club that would have me as a member! And I don't like to be pigeon holed....but what the hey.....is there a theme song too? (Please don't tell me it's "I am woman hear me roar!!!!! )

And you know what .....I <i>love</i> Teresa!

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
Sorry, but i had to respond to this:

No, THK is 'bashed' for being crass. I have yet to hear anyone say she is 'too outspoken'. Laura Bush is held up as a standard because she has class and it shows, IMO. What gives you the authority to say that she 'stays in a position of submission re her husband'? Do you have any facts to back that statement up? She was not elected by the people, is not employed by the people and is not required to shout an important message from the rooftops to appease the american people. She may actually, gasp, prefer to stay out of the limelight. Is that a crime? Wow, I suppose only those who are world leaders, making a global difference, shouting from a bullhorn have any real value as women, eh? Sounds like the typical "I totally support ALL women and their choices, well, except the ones who do things differently than me" mentality.

Btw, who said LB doesn't speak her mind? Oh, that's right, she doesn't do it the way YOU want her to....

Ya know, I had this big long response typed and realized I would
be talking to the wall. Time better spent elsewhere. Sorry not
to fight this morning. I know you are wanting to.
Maybe another day. bye

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by Beth76
I used to think I was the antithesis of feminism because I have mostly taken on a role that is considered for the "traditional woman". I don't have a career and I don't strive for a career. I did go to college, but I majored in Home Economics. Well, it's not called Home Ec anymore, it's called Human Environmental Sciences (nice Euphemism, huh?) That's where Interior Design falls into at my University.

I had a (male) friend who joked that I was getting my M.R.S. degree (that's OK b/c he joked he was there getting his M.R. degree ). So, while I didn't attend college *just* to find a husband, it didn't hurt to pick one up while I was there.

So, I got married and had kids. I choose to stay at home with them (rather than have a career) because that is important to me and my family. So, my husband says that I am a feminist because I'm doing what I *choose* to do and I support other women in their choices.

Ita and I think SAHMs do have a HUGe career in the community.
Good for you!

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by shortbun
Ya know, I had this big long response typed and realized I would
be talking to the wall.

You mind if I answer this one Shortbun? The way some of you dislike Teresa, that's how I dislike Laura. She doesn't seem genuine to me. She reminds me of Barbie on anti-depressants. I know that sounds mean but I'm being completely serious. Just so you don't think I'm Republican bashing, I think her MIL was great -- very authentic!

Teresa is real, warts and all, and seems like a very likeable person. I love her. An occasional "real person" slip? I can handle that - especialy with the package she comes with!

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by disney4us2002
What a crock of crapola! I didn't see posts saying that Mrs. Bush was being held as a standard "because she stays in a position of submission". That is your interpretation. Many think she has class because she isn't obnoxious; she isn't submissive to her husband, she is respectful to both him as an individual and as the country's leader. How can someone claim to be a feminist and say they support women and then turn and bash a woman for her choices? That is truly rich!

So you don't agree that "born again" Christians believe women
should submit to their husbands? I've been told by many that
this is a very strong belief among them.

AND-you think it's good that our leaders are almost all white
men(the rare woman proves the rule). There are NO blacks
in the senate and only a couple women. Never have we had
a black or female President , Vice President. Most churches are
lead by men; I'm an Episcopalian so we have some female ministers and lay people now AND a gay Bishop!! Hurray!
You think that in the year 2004 that white straight men lead
this country-practically the whole world is OK? They don't have
my interests at heart certainly. How about yours?
I just know you are going to say they are keeping you safe.
Been in the inner city lately?

 

[Robinrs]

Yes, I am a feminist and yes, anything that's pro female in this society has a negative connotation. The sad thing is females are socialized from birth to be pro male and anti female.

And no I don't hate men, but I DO hate idiots, male or female.

 

[poohandwendy]

Sorry not to fight this morning. I know you are wanting to.

Um, not really, but whatever.

The way some of you dislike Teresa, that's how I dislike Laura. She doesn't seem genuine to me. She reminds me of Barbie on anti-depressants. I know that sounds mean but I'm being completely serious. Just so you don't think I'm Republican bashing, I think her MIL was great -- very authentic!

I can totally understand not liking her because she 'doesn't seem genuine' to you. I just don't understand saying that she has taken women a step backwards or that her lack of being outspoken is due to a 'submissive wife' role she plays. That is what I disagree with.

 

[Pooh Girl 71]

Originally posted by Beth76
I used to think I was the antithesis of feminism because I have mostly taken on a role that is considered for the "traditional woman". I don't have a career and I don't strive for a career. I did go to college, but I majored in Home Economics. Well, it's not called Home Ec anymore, it's called Human Environmental Sciences (nice Euphemism, huh?) That's where Interior Design falls into at my University.

I had a (male) friend who joked that I was getting my M.R.S. degree (that's OK b/c he joked he was there getting his M.R. degree ). So, while I didn't attend college *just* to find a husband, it didn't hurt to pick one up while I was there.

So, I got married and had kids. I choose to stay at home with them (rather than have a career) because that is important to me and my family. So, my husband says that I am a feminist because I'm doing what I *choose* to do and I support other women in their choices.

You are a feminist because YOU chose this life for yourself. You didn't fall into it because you thought you didn't have any choice.

There has yet to be a First Lady I haven't liked. I wish more would be outspoken though. I think it is sad that any woman who is outspoken and passionate is labeled into the B word. Men who act that way are never labeled like that.

 

[auntpolly]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I just don't understand saying that she has taken women a step backwards or that her lack of being outspoken is due to a 'submissive wife' role she plays. That is what I disagree with.

Well, I don't agree or disagree - because I feel like we really don't know Laura at all. Honestly, she reminds me of a Stepford wife. Like I said, her MIL was a different story. I didn't agree with everything about Barbara, but I admired her for being herself. All I see with Laura is someone who acts like she's playing the first lady on some made for tv movie! It's just how I feel. I don't even know what she's like enough to dislike her. But I dislike her for not letting her personality show. You know, I kind of felt like that about Rosalyn Carter, too, but I loved Jimmy and really don't let how the first lady will be affect my vote. If I liked Bush, I wouldn't care at all about Laura.

For me, comparing first ladies has all the importance of a People Magazine poll. I like Teresa better, but who cares? It's her husband who will be the president!

 

[poohandwendy]

For me, comparing first ladies has all the importance of a People Magazine poll. I like Teresa better, but who cares? It's her husband who will be the president!

ITA, with the first part...I just don't think her husband will be president

 

[rcyannacci]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
No, I would not classify myself as a feminist. Mainly because I do not see myself fitting into a group based on the specific rights of women or any other group. I believe in equal rights for all. Period.

What turns me off to the feminist ''movement'' is the unwritten "if you are born with ovaries you must support others with ovaries club' mentality.

Sorry, I support people I respect... woman, man, black, white, asian, german, jew, buddist...

I respect your right to identify yourself however your choose. But I have a few responses to some of your reasons. You say that you "believe in equal rights for all." Something I completely agree with you on. But I think it is important to remember that in the 60's Feminism was a huge movement in promoting these ideas of equal rights, not just for women but for everyone. This was (and is) liberal Feminism (liberal in the lower-case sense, not Liberal). Same with the Civil Rights movement. These movements spoke about different demographics, but they taught us all a lesson, and their actions continue to give other minority groups fighting for rights a model, a reason, and a hope.

In response to the unwritten "if you are born with ovaries you must support others with ovaries club' mentality," I think we should consider this word of "support." What the movement is about (as I interpret it) is not that women have to support the positions or actions of all women, but we should support their right to speak those positions and engage in those actions (within the law), even if we disagree with what is being said. That women have equal access to all the rights associated with citizenship.

Edited to add- Saying that "I support people I respect" doesn't necessarily translate into support for their rights as equal citizens. I could respect someone "woman, man, black, white, asian, german, jew, buddist" because they did or said something that supports my beliefs on any number of political, social, or religious subjects. But if they don't have the same equal rights as I do, how do I know that they had the choice to say anything to the contrary? Rather, I should respect their right to say something that contradicts my beliefs, a much harder thing to do.

 

[Planogirl]

I am a feminist and proud to be so. Some people do see the word as negative nowadays but it's important to realize that extremists exist in every movement and like it or not, those individuals are what draws attention.

A feminist to me is someone that believes that women can make their own decisions on how they wish to live their lives. They can pursue their dreams, nurture their talents and follow their hearts' desire without unfair roadblocks based only on the fact that they're female.

 

[barbeml]

Proud feminist here (and also a wife who does not hate men).

When I entered the workforce at age 19 (in the late '70s), the women (even the 60-year-olds!) were expected to call the men "Mr. So and so," but all the men referred to the women as "My girl" or "The girl," as in "Have your girl call my girl to set up a meeting." The pay for every woman I knew was appalling, and the WORM (white old rich men) attitude was that females worked for shopping money, men worked to support families.

Those early experiences made me a feminist--I believe that no one should be denied opportunity, respect or fair compensation on the basis of gender.

While every movement has its radicals, it is wrong to try to marginalize whole groups of people by making negative generalizations. And I despise the all-too-common practice of diverting attention from a woman's opinions or accomplishments by focusing on her hairstyle or weight.

While we have come a long way since the '70s, I was saddened by a recent Dear Abby letter from a school girl who was laughed at and ridiculed BY HER TEACHER because she said she wanted to be President of the US when she grows up. I guess we still have a long way to go.

 

[gina2000]

I'm a feminist.

I don't criticise other women. I support their choices.