Info on Photo Contest and BORDERS!!

[gokenin]

I respectfully disagree, my Minolta A2 does indeed shoot in raw,


plus I think a person getting a good exposure with a p&s can indeed edit a jpeg, resulting in a pic that could compete with a raw from a dslr..

ok , i will apologize i was incorrect there are p&S cameras that will allow you to shoot in RAW didnt know that and apologize to anyone that i may have offended. The second comment however proves my point that a P&S will have to edit even a good exposure to compete with an SLR. Ok now I am off

 

[mabas9395]

After reading through this thread again and then going to go vote for the night shots, it has really changed the way I vote. I was about to vote for one, but knowing what I do about what it takes to get a really good night shot, I had to vote for something else because IMHO, there is nooo way that some of those followed the "minimal editing" rule. And maybe that is the best way to "police" this, if a shot looks like too much editing was done, don't vote for it.

Actually, all of this is a moot point for me because I never win any of these contests anyway!

 

[ukcatfan]

another option would be to shoot in raw/jpeg format..that way you have your raw for your own personal use and a jpeg for the contest..

Not all RAW capable cameras have that option.

Kevin

 

[MICKEY88]

Contests and competitions always upgrade their rules as needed.but not because entrants disagree with the rules..

In addition, I don't think anyone is suggesting any radical rules changes, just clarification on the existing rules.

I know with *I* think "MINIMAL EDITING" is ... but, it seems, some people think that minimal editing also includes sitting down with Photoshop, and the Clone tool, to (essentially) completely alter the picture that they actually took!

And, as has been pointed out, the folks taking RAW pics *do* gain a significant advantage (on top of their already better DSLR performance), because the very nature of RAW processing necessitates tweaking the White Balance/Sharpness/etc....

again if people shooting raw open the file in their program and save without doing any edits, due to program defaults they will basically have a similar to one that came straight out of a caamera...

 

[ukcatfan]

This thing is growing so fast I can hardly keep up with it. How would people feel if there was a vote put up that listed what people feel is fair editing? I think a simple yes/no on each of the aspects such as sharpness, contrast, noise removal, etc... At the end of say two weeks, we compile the results and then we have our rules. IMO, this is simply to large of a judgment call to not have specific guidelines. There are just so many different things that can be done to a digital file. Would a simple conversion of a color shot to B&W be a problem for example?

Kevin

 

[ukcatfan]

again if people shooting raw open the file in their program and save without doing any edits, due to program defaults they will basically have a similar to one that came straight out of a caamera...

True, but most programs allow the defaults to be changed. Also, if we did the only defaults for RAW, then we would also have to say that JPG users cannot adjust the saturation/contrast/sharpness/etc. That would automatically throw out almost every shot I ever took with my S1 b/c I almost always had the saturation bumped one level.

Kevin

 

[steery1]

I was about to vote for one, but knowing what I do about what it takes to get a really good night shot, I had to vote for something else........
if a shot looks like too much editing was done, don't vote for it.

There is a photo in the night shots competition this week that not only breaks the "no borders" rule but also breaks the 800 x 600 rule.

RAW conversion and "minimal editing" are subjective but those two rules are not.

 

[CheshireVal]

After reading through this thread again and then going to go vote for the night shots, it has really changed the way I vote. I was about to vote for one, but knowing what I do about what it takes to get a really good night shot, I had to vote for something else because IMHO, there is nooo way that some of those followed the "minimal editing" rule. And maybe that is the best way to "police" this, if a shot looks like too much editing was done, don't vote for it.

But unfortunately, the edited pictures sometimes get a lot of votes because they naturally look the best. If people would stop voting for them altogether, then maybe they'd stop being posted.

 

[fitzperry]

reasonable people can cetainly differ, but in the end, the person running the contest sets the rules, enter any contest in the real world, and if you are found in violation of the rules, you are disqualified.

I never suggested otherwise, nor have I suggested that Dana should refrain from disqualifying anyone who she thinks is breaking the rules. It's her contest. What I am suggesting is that if the rules were more specific, she might have less difficulty with people trying to push the limits. You keep saying things like "straight from the camera," but that has never been the rule. Cropping is allowed. As far as I know converting to b&w or sepia is ok. I believe that Dana has said in the past that some adjustments to brightness or contrast are acceptable.

as for noiseware yes it is beyond minimal editing,

In your opinion. And evidently in Dana's as well, which is obviously what counts here. But are you suggesting it would be unreasonable to have believed it was permissible? A certain other well-known photography contest allows noise reduction under its "basic editing" rules. It's not permitted under said contest's "minimal editing" rules, but then again neither are cropping and RAW conversion.

ok so if evryone has noise in there night parade shots, then the playing field is even,

I would disagree. DSLRs are generally going to perform better at high ISOs. Allowing noise reduction in post processing is what would level the playing field. That said, I will of course follow the rules that Dana sets out.

 

[MICKEY88]

ok , i will apologize i was incorrect there are p&S cameras that will allow you to shoot in RAW didnt know that and apologize to anyone that i may have offended. The second comment however proves my point that a P&S will have to edit even a good exposure to compete with an SLR. Ok now I am off

the second comment doesn't prove your point at all, you said there was no way it could be doen, I said it sould..I didn't say it had to be edited...

as a matter of fact I have hundreds of pics taken in jpeg with my A2, unedited, that I'd put up against most people using raw and editing..

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

again if people shooting raw open the file in their program and save without doing any edits, due to program defaults they will basically have a similar to one that came straight out of a caamera...

Relax, there, Mickey88 ... I don't think anyone is "disagreeing" with the rules at all!

I know for my part that I'd just like to get an agreement for what "minimal editing" means....

As far as the RAW processing ... how would you PROVE that the RAW processor is just opening and saving with defaults as opposed to tweaking anything? You can't, AFAIK....

That's what's leading to the ambiguity we're trying to eliminate....

 

[MICKEY88]

This thing is growing so fast I can hardly keep up with it. How would people feel if there was a vote put up that listed what people feel is fair editing? I think a simple yes/no on each of the aspects such as sharpness, contrast, noise removal, etc... At the end of say two weeks, we compile the results and then we have our rules. IMO, this is simply to large of a judgment call to not have specific guidelines. There are just so many different things that can be done to a digital file. Would a simple conversion of a color shot to B&W be a problem for example?

Kevin

again, Danas contest Danas rules< I think anyone wanting different rules should start their own contest, if the rules get changed now, what's to say someone won't try to change them again in a month or 2..


converting to b&w is one of the easiest ways to salvage a bad picture, so I would think it is a problem

 

[MICKEY88]

I would disagree. DSLRs are generally going to perform better at high ISOs. Allowing noise reduction in post processing is what would level the playing field. That said, I will of course follow the rules that Dana sets out.

that wouldn't level the playing field at all, because more often than not the people with the expensive cameras are the ones with the expensive software..

 

[gokenin]

ahhh makes you yearn for the days of film when you got what you got you had no choice in the matter

 

[MICKEY88]

Relax, there, Mickey88 ... I don't think anyone is "disagreeing" with the rules at all!

I know for my part that I'd just like to get an agreement for what "minimal editing" means....

As far as the RAW processing ... how would you PROVE that the RAW processor is just opening and saving with defaults as opposed to tweaking anything? You can't, AFAIK....

That's what's leading to the ambiguity we're trying to eliminate....

no need for me to relax, I'm fine...


you can't prove people are just opening and saving, but if people choose to be honest, that is the option, as opposed to saying they have to edit all raw files..

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

again, Danas contest Danas rules< I think anyone wanting different rules should start their own contest, if the rules get changed now, what's to say someone won't try to change them again in a month or 2..

That's fine. I don't want a different contest. I don't want different rules.

I'd just like to hear a (near) definitive explanation of what the "minimal editing" means TO DANA.

It would be nice if we could agree on what it means ... but apparently, we all can't even abide by a pretty cut & dried "800x600 and no borders" rule! Neither of those rules have *any* wiggle room!

 

[LPZ_Stitch!]

no need for me to relax, I'm fine...

Sorry, the posting in red text struck me as "heated"

 

[Anewman]

While I agree 100% that the rules should be followed. But in reality just because someone thinks an image looks like it was "edited" beyond the rules "minimal editing" guidelines...

You are still just guessing.

I know that I can set in camera parameters to settings that would produce a jpeg that looks edited to most, especially if I mess around with white balance. Said image would likely be disqualified even though it is indeed "straight out of camera". This is Dana's contest and her rules to enforce to her liking, I just don't believe anyone is capable of looking at these entries and being 100% accurate when it comes to determining which are edited more than "minimally".

Some unedited images are sure to be labled as being outside the rules, while some VERY EDITED images will be allowed. There is no way around it unless every single entry turns in the negatives... oops there are no negatives are there.

IMO this is beyond just a friendly contest, it is more for sharing our Disney experiences. There is no prize money or trophies involved, I really do not understand why anyone would argue about the rules. As others have stated, if you feel an image is edited the best thing to do would be to not vote for said image. But accusing that person of breaking the rules requires proof... end opinion

 

[steery1]

There is no prize money or trophies involved, I really do not understand why anyone would argue about the rules.

Money or prizes are not why I enter. I enter my photo becaus I like it, want to share it with others and because I want to win. I get the feeling sometimes that its not PC if you want to win this comp. Well I do. Is it a competition or a photo sharing thread?

And the argument (I prefer to call it a dabate) is because the "minimal "editing" rule is open to speculation as to what exactly are the boundries.......

 

[MICKEY88]

Sorry, the posting in red text struck me as "heated"

I never even thought of that..sorry...