Important changes to Rent/Trade Posting Rules

[littlewilson25]

Wow, big change. I definitely get the restriction on the spec rental threads, but not as clear on why the Res-Wanted threads had to be banned. Like others said, it's still a great forum and thank goodness it's here, though the changes will make things a bit more difficult for a couple of groups.

1) the owners who now have to create and manage their own postings, and field responses from a huge variety of renters

and

2) renters like me who are looking for a reservation but don't have the ability to hound the board all day in order to jump on new postings quickly enough to get requests in to the owners.

In the past, I'd post my request, try to make it clear that I was a veteran renter, and ready to book, so that interested owners would know exactly what the situation and could respond directly to me. That type of thing is no longer an option, and I find myself anxiously trying to keep the board on my desktop and constantly refreshed during the workday.

 

[Blytheny]

I am new to this board, and just have a question re: the "no posting until less than 30 days prior to check in" policy.

I am someone who is hoping rent points in the future, but there is NO way I could wait until 30 days prior to my vacation to see if someone had points available.

How does someone who's looking many months out go about finding a decent DVC rental w/o doing it at the last minute??

Thanks for any input on this... maybe I'm just missing something?

 

[pinnocchiosdad]

After much discussion regarding problems with the Rent/Trade board, the moderating team has decided to implement the following change:

Effective January 12, 2010, Reservation Wanted (RW) threads will no longer be accepted on the Rent/Trade board. All existing/open RW threads will be closed.

If you are seeking a reservation, you will still be able to respond to a "Points for Rent" thread with your requested resort and dates. You may also respond to a Reservation for Rent thread, if your travel dates match.

A reminder that Reservations for Rent may only be posted at 30 days or less prior to check-in date.

Everyone knows that this is not the only Disney/DVC board in town. This latest move will probably send many subscribers to these other boards which allow resie wanted ads as well as allowing specific reservations for rent "outside 30 days".

 

[RobDoc]

I am new to this board, and just have a question re: the "no posting until less than 30 days prior to check in" policy.

I am someone who is hoping rent points in the future, but there is NO way I could wait until 30 days prior to my vacation to see if someone had points available.

How does someone who's looking many months out go about finding a decent DVC rental w/o doing it at the last minute??

Thanks for any input on this... maybe I'm just missing something?

You do not need to wait until 30 days before your vacation.

The "30 days" policy applies ONLY to those offering an existing reservation and does not affect someone willing to make a reservation for others or requesting a reservation.

To try to make a reservation, all you need to do is respond to a "Points for Rent" thread on the Rent/Trade Board. Some even start looking more than a year prior to the dates they want to get access to owners of the resort they are looking for so that reservation mauy be made 11 months ahead.

Good luck!

 

[sasmmb]

Hi, after reading 6 full pages of posts to get a full understanding, I'd still like to make a plea to allow the RW threads back and here is my reasoning. I am not a DVC member, but certainly a DIS member. Last year I was looking to rent, and looked thru the Points for Rent posts. The vast majority didn't suit my needs (they needed to get rid of points sooner than my 10 month out planning, or had too few points, or too many points and wanted them all to be taken). Of those few that seemed to fit, I responded and either got no response back, or turns out one of the issues above that just wasn't clarified in the original post.

By posting my own RW thread I had 3 immediate replies, 2 whose price was too high for me even though I specifically said what I was willing to pay. The 3rd was a great match! I did my own due dilegence to make sure he was legit and read every single thread he had posted on these boards. The rental process turned out great!

Now I fully understand DIS trying to prevent spec rentals. But it is my understanding that spec rentals seem to be very date specific. Instead of banning all RW for 365 days of the year, could you not change the policy to say "No RW requesting dates during Premier Season (and add Magic Season if you feel that's also spec date territory"?

 

[macleary]

Instead of banning all RW for 365 days of the year, could you not change the policy to say "No RW requesting dates during Premier Season (and add Magic Season if you feel that's also spec date territory"?

sasmmb's got a great idea here. I like that alot.

I also happen to feel in terms of determining fair market value for points, having nobody request points distorts the market value (pushes the price down). Someone posted a few pages ago saying that removing RW threads would help push up the prices - sorry but that's wrong!! A natural economic balance that determines correct price can only be achieved if both sides participate. Econ 101. If only sellers post prices then they bid down the prices to gain buyers.

 

[Chuck S]

sasmmb's got a great idea here. I like that alot.

I also happen to feel in terms of determining fair market value for points, having nobody request points distorts the market value (pushes the price down). Someone posted a few pages ago saying that removing RW threads would help push up the prices - sorry but that's wrong!! A natural economic balance that determines correct price can only be achieved if both sides participate. Econ 101. If only sellers post prices then they bid down the prices to gain buyers.

We discussed the option of limiting the time frame for RW threads, but decided against it. First, defining actual peak high demand times for a timeshare that is designed to operate at nearly full capacity year round would be next to impossible. Even in what Disney considers low demand times, DVC demand can be extremely strong, like early December when the point charts are very reasonable. Renters may wish to travel in those time to save even more $ over cash reservations.

Second, Econ 101 doesn't really come into play in the points market as much as it does for other aspects of the travel industry. The financial aspect for renting is, ultimately, always under the control of the DVC owner. There will always be some "fire sales" on points that are expiring or if an owner is under financial pressure. But for the most part, if an owner doesn't want to sell at a low price point, they simply don't have to do so.

RW threads served as an open door for those looking to unload speculative reservations. We saw extended and continued abuse of our policies, from the speculative rental market. We know this because some RW posters reported that they were contacted via PM by people with existing reservations much farther out than 30 days, even for what Disney cash reservations considers off-peak travel times.

It was to the point that it was taking several moderator hours daily to issue infractions and restrict access of those speculative renters.

The RW thread policy is not under reconsideration at this time.

 

[RobDoc]

... A natural economic balance that determines correct price can only be achieved if both sides participate. Econ 101. If only sellers post prices then they bid down the prices to gain buyers.

Renters are more than welcome to offer what they are willing to pay for a reservation. All aspects of these rentals are subject to negotiation.

If a renter only wants to pay $6 per point, they can do so when asking about the rental. If they are willing to pay $15 per point, they can do so when asking about the rental.

The free market is alive and well with each of these transactions. The final price is up to the parties involved - but no price barriers will be suggested or maintained by the DIS and that would constitute price fixing anyway.

 

[Tamar]

I also happen to feel in terms of determining fair market value for points, having nobody request points distorts the market value (pushes the price down). If only sellers post prices then they bid down the prices to gain buyers.

FWIW, I agree with you, macleary, and predicted as much on page 4 of this thread. I think it's pretty clear that very little is going on in renting or transferring for more than $10/point now, and it seems that some posters looking for transfers are taking advantage of that and advertising their desire to pay even less (which prompts renters to expect a lower ppp, too).

Some of that might be due to the economy, but I suspect at least part of it is a regression toward the mean or slightly below, now that the mean is more obvious with less variety in the types of threads on the board. I'm not advocating for any further changes, and will be happy if the next several months reverses the trend, but what's happening now with prices IS what's happening, and probably has something to do with the change.

 

[mdinme]

I agree that it was the only way to stop it. Problem now is renting points that require just a small amount of points. Example: I'd like to add a day on the front of our 5-day [date removed] Trip, but nobody seems to want to deal with making a REZ that uses [a small amount of points] when they're trying to sell hundreds.

When you could post: I need a [room size] at *** on */*/** to add on the front of my REZ... someone would take pity and PM you!



Note: This post has been edited to remove specifics about a desired point rental. - Chuck S

 

[glavine47]

I agree that it was the only way to stop it. Problem now is renting points that require just a small amount of points. Example: I'd like to add a day on the front of our 5-day [date removed] Trip, but nobody seems to want to deal with making a REZ that uses [a small amount of points] when they're trying to sell hundreds.

When you could post: I need a [room size] at *** on */*/** to add on the front of my REZ... someone would take pity and PM you!



Note: This post has been edited to remove specifics about a desired point rental. - Chuck S

Mdinme,
I agree, I am wanting to add two days to our trip and I cannot find anyone within the 11-month window for GCV. I Have spent hours trying to find someone that is a owner, to get the best availability. When I could just make a RW, explain what I am looking for and then wait on a reply. Just my two cents.

 

[glavine47]

Mdinme,
I agree, I am wanting to add two days to our trip and I cannot find anyone within the 11-month window for GCV. I Have spent hours trying to find someone that is a owner, to get the best availability. When I could just make a RW, explain what I am looking for and then wait on a reply. Just my two cents.

I just do not understand the no Reservation Wanted policy. I have spent two weeks looking for someone wanting to rent points on this site, with no luck. I post a RW on another site and with-in two days, I have had two responses and now I have a reservation for Christmas at the GCV.

 

[Chuck S]

I just do not understand the no Reservation Wanted policy. I have spent two weeks looking for someone wanting to rent points on this site, with no luck. I post a RW on another site and with-in two days, I have had two responses and now I have a reservation for Christmas at the GCV.

That demonstrates one reason why we no longer allow Reservation Wanted posts. It is likely that someone posting a RW post for Christmas would be dealing with an owner that had pre-booked Christmas with the sole intention of renting out that reservation and not intending to use it themselves. The very definition of speculative rentals. It is also the reason for the 30 day rule here on the DIS...not allowing an owner to offer an existing reservation more than 30 days before check-in date.

 

[glavine47]

That demonstrates one reason why we no longer allow Reservation Wanted posts. It is likely that someone posting a RW post for Christmas would be dealing with an owner that had pre-booked Christmas with the sole intention of renting out that reservation and not intending to use it themselves. The very definition of speculative rentals. It is also the reason for the 30 day rule here on the DIS...not allowing an owner to offer an existing reservation more than 30 days before check-in date.

I needed a two night stay, starting on Christmas day. How would he have know that was what I needed?

This gentleman gave me a great price and I have checked him out, to make sure he is legit. I know there are some people that take advantage of the system, but there are also some that are there to just help. The RW is a great service to non-DVC owners.

Instead of looking every morning and night for someone with points at GCV, I can now focus on planning my trip.

 

[Chuck S]

I needed a two night stay, starting on Christmas day. How would he have know that was what I needed?

This gentleman gave me a great price and I have checked him out, to make sure he is legit. I know there are some people that take advantage of the system, but there are also some that are there to just help. The RW is a great service to non-DVC owners.

Instead of looking every morning and night for someone with points at GCV, I can now focus on planning my trip.

Again, this demonstrates the need for our board to enforce this policy. If non-DVC members make posts seeking a Christmas reservation and had they been contacted by someone offering an existing reservation that they had made previously, solely on the hope of renting that reservation in the future, would it be turned down?

It may not have been the case in your particular rental, but it certianly would have been for many.

Likely the non-member would take it without giving a thought to our 30 day rule or any other board policies.

We offer our Rent/Trade board services for free...all we ask is that you follow our rules.

It was not a decision made lightly. The moderators discussed many different options for several months. It is not being reconsidered at this time.

 

[glavine47]

Again, this demonstrates the need for our board to enforce this policy. If non-DVC members make posts seeking a Christmas reservation and had they been contacted by someone offering an existing reservation that they had made previously, solely on the hope of renting that reservation in the future, would it be turned down?

It may not have been the case in your particular rental, but it certianly would have been for many.

Likely the non-member would take it without giving a thought to our 30 day rule or any other board policies.

We offer our Rent/Trade board services for free...all we ask is that you follow our rules.

It was not a decision made lightly. The moderators discussed many different options for several months. It is not being reconsidered at this time.

Chuck S,
I appreciate the things that all of the moderators do. But in this, I do not agree. I appreciate you for taking the time to address these posts.

This situation is an example of life, a few bad apples ruins the whole bunch. I like this board and I will continue to enjoy it. Thanks for being a Moderator.

 

[jarrandale]

After much discussion regarding problems with the Rent/Trade board, the moderating team has decided to implement the following change:

Effective January 12, 2010, Reservation Wanted (RW) threads will no longer be accepted on the Rent/Trade board. All existing/open RW threads will be closed.

If you are seeking a reservation, you will still be able to respond to a "Points for Rent" thread with your requested resort and dates. You may also respond to a Reservation for Rent thread, if your travel dates match.

A reminder that Reservations for Rent may only be posted at 30 days or less prior to check-in date.

I just want to clarify that I understand the new rule. If you want to "rent points" or have someone make a reservation for you, you can't make that request in a post. But what about asking to transfer points? I assumed that asking for a transfer was the same as asking for a rental; however, when I scanned the postings, I saw "TRANSFER WANTED". Am I missing something or did these people ignore the rules?

Also, I want to clarify the 30 days rental rule. Assuming that I can post a "TRANSFER WANTED", can I ask for a transfer for a reservation that is more than 30 days out?

Sorry for the questions. Just want to make sure that I am following the rules before I do anything.

 

[Chuck S]

A transfer means that you are a DVC Member looking for another member to transfer points into your DVC Account, you will make your own reservation. Point Transfer Wanted threads are allowed. There is no need to include specific dates of travel, or room size desired in transfer posts, in fact, posts that include that specific info will be declined. You may include the month of travel, to be sure the transferred points are in a correct use year for that reservation. And if you sre looking for a Transfer to make a reservatin during the 11 minth window, you can include the resort, as transferred points retain their original resort priority and use year.

Reservation Wanted threads, which are no longer allowed, was a request for a DVC member to make a reservation for you with their points, and then rent that reservation to you. The problem is, it also is a vehicle for Members with pre-existing speculative reservations to solicit those reservations to the people posting Reservation Wanted threads, breaking our posting rules.

Transfers and Rentals are different animals completely.

 

[jarrandale]

Thank you for clarifying. I haven't done a transfer before...didn't need to but now Disney has increased the points needed for Sun to Thurs reservations and I find myself short 14 points. If I request a point transfer, do the points need to be at my home resort (OKW)? Also, my reservation is for March 2011 (OKW) and my use year is April. I would need to find someone willing to transfer 2011 points because of when I want to travel, correct? Thank you again.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thank you for clarifying. I haven't done a transfer before...didn't need to but now Disney has increased the points needed for Sun to Thurs reservations and I find myself short 14 points. If I request a point transfer, do the points need to be at my home resort (OKW)? Also, my reservation is for March 2011 (OKW) and my use year is April. I would need to find someone willing to transfer 2011 points because of when I want to travel, correct? Thank you again.

If you are making the reservation 7 months or less out, you can get any resort points. Transferred points retain their resort. But you will need 2010 points because your trip is in your 2010 use year.