I'm just sick over this...

[dairyou]

I wasn't able to read the entire thread but what I did see was very good advice. I also wanted to add that any extra work he does, toward paying off the debt, should be "paid/credited" at minimum wage. This way he will understand just how hard it is to save up that kind of cash.

I hope, whatever you do, he gets the lesson and learns that people can like him without the money.

Good luck!

That's a great idea. When my son was 15 1/2 and was able to work at Chick Fil A he would say how many hours he had to work to earn 150.00. Of course it was a lot to him but he knew in "real life" it wouldn't get him too far.

 

[RUDisney]

You posted that when he works, he'll have to use the money to pay you back what he took, I agree to a point. Let him keep a few dollars-if he earns $20, let him keep $5. That way he can learn to budget with the money he earns.
In this way, he'll learn 3 lessons:
1.You have to take responsibility for your actions.
2.Money and things do not come easily and if you want something, you have to learn to put some money aside.
3.He may get an idea of how hard and long you and your husband have to work to provide your kids with what they have.

This is exactly how I feel about it. If I take the $40 per week that he earns and keep all of it, he'll only come back to me and DH to ask for money when he's allowed to do things again. That doesn't seem like it would be a very good learning experience.

As for the police and scaring him straight, I think talking to your BIL is a very good idea. However, given his personal history I would ask you to PLEASE not have him even pretend arrested. This boy needs to know that he is secure and that you are there through thick thin and any other crap that may come up. Not saying there need to be consequences and severe ones, but having the police come pick him up can totally screw up his trust for you as well and that is going to rock any foundation he has.

That is the rocky road that I see. While my BIL can talk to him about the ramifications of his actions, I wouldn't want to arrest him. He needs to understand what can happen if he chooses the wrong path and he needs to have us there for him to show him the right path that he can walk with us.

at least you can head this behavior off while he is only 13...before he goes to college and gets a credit card and starts treating the entire dorm to pizza and beer.

This has definitely crossed our minds.

Tell him he failed twice.

The code is honesty. The second part of that code is he would have to turn himself in.

We've discussed this at length. Because my BFF is the physician for the cadets and her DH is a math prof at West Point, I could give him a number of examples of people having to confess what they'd done because of the honor code. One friend of ours came very close to being thrown out because he lied about being with his GF when he was supposed to be back in the barracks.

One of my first thoughts was drugs too. When he works for his uncle, is he around other employees that have the drug/alcohol problems? If so, I would consider not having him work there anymore. You would be amazed at how much influence co-workers could have on people, especially a 13yo -- and I don't necessarily mean drugs per se, just their attitudes/thoughts on life/etc.

I really think that the adoption aspect could be a big part of the cause. I would definitely get counseling.

Luckily, those who have drug/alcohol problems do not work remotely near my DS. He tends to work in the office, with the ladies, shredding the week's castoffs or he works near the customer counter mopping and sweeping, etc. The guys at the counter are all class acts, and many are his cousins or uncles.

I have a feeling that the adoption aspect is a big part, too. The more I think of it, the more I've been remembering about him having to leave our house when the summer program was finished to return to Russia. When he got back to the orphanage, he bragged to the other children that he and his Dsis had rich parents. Rich in his mind meant that he and she had their own bedrooms, they had bicycles and we had 2 cars (if you can believe that we are so rich. ) All of the kids were mad at him and didn't want to play with him. He had to learn to keep his mouth shut around the other children who didn't have prospective parents yet.

Another thing is that he had to go out with his other siblings to beg in the streets to keep their house going. He's always been very money focused as he could find a kopeck on the ground from far away. (There are 100 kopecks in a ruble and about 30 rubles in a dollar.)

So, from that, I would think that he would understand the importance of having and keeping money, but evidently he sees money as a quick fix to fun. I just don't want that fix to turn into drugs or alcohol from candy.

He asked me if I had ever stolen anything tonight. I could look him in the face and honestly say that I never did, nor did his Dad. He was amazed. I told him he could confirm that with either of his grandmothers.

I really think the day has helped him to put the gravity of his actions into perspective. I can't wait to hear the lecture his uncle gives him tomorrow at "work." He said he's going to confess everything to him so he can seek out his advice on what he should do to make it up to us. I know he'll be scared, but I also know that he'll listen to everything that his uncle has to say and he'll take it to heart.

I've gotta go to bed. What a long day!

Thank you again for all your support and advice!

 

[Loverly]

Evidently, this has been going on for a while, unbeknownst to us. He said that on average, he spent about $50 per day on snacks/candy, meals and other useless junk like pokemon cards.

...

He's 13-I still can not see how you, as his mother, did not know he was eating out at restaurants every single day-didn;t you drive him ?
Although an adult could spend this amount daily, a child of 13 has to get to all these places he is spending money at=who took him?
I still can't see him spending $6000 since May- doesn't make sense.

 

[rie'smom]

I've gotta go to bed. What a long day!

Thank you again for all your support and advice!

You're welcome. Sleep tight.

 

[RUDisney]

He's 13-I still can not see how you, as his mother, did not know he was eating out at restaurants every single day-didn;t you drive him ?
Although an adult could spend this amount daily, a child of 13 has to get to all these places he is spending money at=who took him?
I still can't see him spending $6000 since May- doesn't make sense.

I'm going to go to bed right after this post, I swear.

We live very near the center of our town. All of the eateries that he's frequented are within walking/biking distance. He's also told me that he's eaten at his buddies' houses a lot. His friends eat at our house, too, so I didn't see anything strange about that. Turns out, he was also eating at restaurants on those nights that he claimed that he was eating with the other families.

 

[Mahnahmahnah]

RUDisney - I just read through this thread and I am so sorry

I was thinking drugs, too at first. An ext-FM of mine has a very bad drug problem. He also stole from family. The drug problem started when he was 13. I hope this is not the case for you.

I have to agree with DisneyDoll on the materialistic idea.

In our area I think that a lot of kids feel the need to "keep up with the Jonses"- if a friend of his has a family who has money, and he sees that friend buying up the mall, he may want that for himself, too. And if he sees that friend being popular, he may have it in his mind that he wants to be just like that.

So all that money= him being popular.

Just a theory.


Good luck.

 

[LisaR]

I have a feeling that the adoption aspect is a big part, too. The more I think of it, the more I've been remembering about him having to leave our house when the summer program was finished to return to Russia. When he got back to the orphanage, he bragged to the other children that he and his Dsis had rich parents. Rich in his mind meant that he and she had their own bedrooms, they had bicycles and we had 2 cars (if you can believe that we are so rich. ) All of the kids were mad at him and didn't want to play with him. He had to learn to keep his mouth shut around the other children who didn't have prospective parents yet.

Another thing is that he had to go out with his other siblings to beg in the streets to keep their house going. He's always been very money focused as he could find a kopeck on the ground from far away. (There are 100 kopecks in a ruble and about 30 rubles in a dollar.)

Just imagine being so poor or neglected that you had to beg and maybe even steal for money or food as a little kid. He went from that to being "rich" in his eyes. And if you look at it from that perspective, he really did go from poor to rich.

I am actually very surprised that he hasn't had regular therapy since you adopted him (unless I missed that). Our son was only 9 months old when we adopted him but they advised we at least keep an eye out as he got older because some kids struggle no matter how good their new life is. My son went through a period where he would FREAK when my husband traveled. I am talking totally out of control freak outs. He would say that DH was leaving him and never coming back. Thankfully, they were short trips and each time DH came home, he realized nobody was going anywhere.

 

[DaParkers]

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been suggested. I would look into some type of "Scared Straight" program. Something that would expose him to police and the inside of a jail itself. Some programs even let the inmates talk to the kids. He needs a big wake up call and that might help. I know that you must be hurt. Just be thankful that he didn't steal this amount of money from someone else becasue he could have been seriously hurt. Everyone doesn't call the police. Some handle things on their own. Maybe this is an opportunity to thwart future hazardous behavior. God bless you and your family.

 

[Goobergal99]

WOW

I can't imagine ever stealing from my mom, horrible!!!

If DD ever stole from me, I would be soooo upset... I don't believe in groundings, I have never been punished, DH was punished if he sneezed the wrong way... we both ended up teen parents to DD so clearly parenting styles made no difference... I also brought home A's and he well..... didn't

But honestly, I think this would be one thing I would never tolerate, this and being lied to... I am working hard to have an open relationship with my child and she is only turning 10 her next birthday, I want her to feel comfortable telling me anything.... I just don't know what I would do if she broke mine and DH's trust

But to you

 

[darlak]

2. Our county has a program called Teen Court. To qualify, it must be your first offense, non-violent and you have to have admitted guilt. The jury, bailiff and both attorneys are made up of trained, volunteer teens. The judge is a real judge. Your son would be "tried" in front of his peers. They have sentencing guidelines, including community service that the court will set up (and the organization reports back to the court so they know how he is doing). This program has a 97% success rate. Maybe you could check to see if you have something similar in your area.

We have Teen Court in our area. I am a volunteer case manager and my DD14 is a teen court volunteer juror/bailiff/clerk/attorney. The qualifying criteria is the same as you mentioned, but the child must first be charged with a juvenile offense. At that point, the Juvenile Probation Officer makes the referral to our teen court coordinator for qualifying cases and it’s her decision to accept them or not. The only problem with that would be that he must first be actually charged with the crime in juvenile court. The court part is necessary because the kids realize that failure to comply with the terms of their teen court sentence will result in their juvenile charges being re-filed. Compliance with the terms AND incurring no further charges will result in the child’s juvenile record being expunged, still I’m not sure that’s a chance the parents would want to take.

 

[Loverly]

I'm sure that he'll continue to "employ" my DS. At least when he's 14, he can get working papers so he can work more than 4 hours per week like he does now.

.

I really feel sorry for your son. Right now his 4 hours a week is probably netting him $30. This $$ will go into an account to pay off $6000.

I honestly know of no establishment that will hire a 14 year old. The burden of repaying this huge amount of $$ will create more friction in your lives. I think seeing a counselor to figure this all out is the way to go.

But I really do not understand why people have huge amounts of $$ hidden, unless it is in a fire proof locked safe-makes no sense to me?

 

[shortbun]

That's a lot of money. My son would be working to earn and repay it. Lawns, car washes, snow shovelling, maybe a yard sale of some of his possessions. There would be a couple of weeks at home with no TV, video games, social events and then the repayment jobs until all was repaid. He had the fun now he must repay the money. I'd also seek counseling for the whole family. He's going to be resentful and the fact that he did this sounds an alarm. The couseling is to keep him out of further trouble. Be sure to tell him you love him and give him a smile and a hug now and then. He'll need it. You will too.

My 13yo has started a business. The motto is :" I can do stuff, hire me!!!" He has a smiling picture of himself on his flier. It's pretty funny but he's washed a couple of cars and done some digging so far. He has set fees for some jobs and some, like painting or gardening, are by the hour. He's a hard worker and I have no doubt that he'll turn this into a great little business. For now, he goes door to door. His hope is that he'll get repeat customers. The car wash people are being reminded each time that he is going to be raking leaves and shoveling snow. He's planning on buying a rake and shovel with his recent earnings. One of his friends works with him and shares the profit sometimes. That boy also has a paper route that DS has helped with and gotten a few dollars pay. If these kids can do this, yours can too. Sounds like he has no trouble promoting himself. Make sure he receives no pay until the job is done and if it's working, let him keep 10% if you think that's appropriate.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

My DH wanted me to post his opinion. He doesn't think your son is a terrible, emotionally disturbed person in need of counseling.

He said that any kid that finds a stash of cash in their house is going to be very tempted. Since he knows it's there, he's going to revisit the forbidden cash. Eventually he will notice that no one is using or monitoring said $$ and will convince himself that no one will notice if he only takes a little...then a little more...then a little more...

Finally, he realizes that he's taken enough that it will surely be noticed. At this point he may as well go hog wild since he's going to be caught anyway.

He's only 13. At this point the desire for the money outweighed his conscience. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one. He has probably never stolen anything from anyone but you and convinced himself that since you're his parents, it's not the same as stealing from a stranger/store/etc. DH said he's probably been living in complete terror for weeks waiting for it to hit the fan.

 

[RUDisney]

In our area I think that a lot of kids feel the need to "keep up with the Jonses"- if a friend of his has a family who has money, and he sees that friend buying up the mall, he may want that for himself, too. And if he sees that friend being popular, he may have it in his mind that he wants to be just like that.

Unfortunately, among his group of friends, we are the "Joneses". He has privileges that many of his friends do not. His best friend has to be out of their apartment by the end of August because the house in which they rented 1/2 was sold. They were given just 30 days notice with a family of 4 children. Hopefully, his parents will find a house to buy soon while they live with his aunt.

I think DS may feel like he wants to share what he has with his friends. I know that is buying them, but he has always been a sharer. When we took him home from the orphanage, he had asked us to bring big chocolate bars for the caretakers. He and his sister broke pieces from the chocolate and shared it with all of the children.

I think he was just trying to share with his friends, not realizing that he was buying them.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night and he said we should take him to Valley Forge Military Academy to show him what could be his if he screws up just once more. He said that his parents did that with him when he misbehaved and seeing the cadets in their wool uniforms in 90 degree heat made him turn about quickly. I don't know about that with my DS. He thinks military life is so great that he'd probably beg us to go there if we showed it to him. Plus, I want to raise my child, not turn him over to a military academy to do it for me. KWIM?

 

[barkley]

I'm going to go to bed right after this post, I swear.

We live very near the center of our town. All of the eateries that he's frequented are within walking/biking distance. He's also told me that he's eaten at his buddies' houses a lot. His friends eat at our house, too, so I didn't see anything strange about that. Turns out, he was also eating at restaurants on those nights that he claimed that he was eating with the other families.

i think the advice you've received about getting professional counseling is the best anyone can offer.

honestly, while the theft would be of horrendous concern to me-the fact that it appears he was activly lieing to you about his whereabouts to further conceal the theft would be an even bigger issue in our household. i have to imagine that if he was treating his friends to these meals, unless those friends have parents who don't monitor their whereabouts, these kids may have been lieing to their parents about where they were too (they may have said they were going to be at your house while your son told you he was going to be at theirs). i would be very hesitant to permit a child who had done this to have much if any freedom to go anywhere unless i could verify he was where he was supposed to be-and that 'where' had appropriate adult supervision.

several people have brought up concerns about drug usage (and btw-i don't think that he should have to agree to testing if a counselor reccommends it-it would be done period). given his family history of alcoholism i would tend to be more concerned with drinking. 13 is not too young an age to start experimenting, and if he has 2 bio parents who are alcoholics he could have a pre-disposition to developing the same (if he was exposed to alcohol as a fetus he could have a much more positive physical reaction to alcohol than the average 13 year old-and a much quicker apptitude to become addicted). not sure what state you live in, but if you are in one with non gov. liquor stores it's pretty easy to get an adult to purchase for you-esp. if you offer to compensate them (and it could explain why such large sums were spent over such a short period of time). i think it's something you need to look in to (i had friends who were extreemly high functioning alcoholics in highschool-their parents never suspected, and one of their habits was to consume ALLOT of food because it absorbed the alcohol in their bodies such that when they went home they did'nt show the classic signs of intoxication).

 

[mirmartinez]

I believe a 13 year old could easily spend $6000, in 3-4 months. The OP mentioned a carnival and a amusement park, and who knows what other activities (wave pool, movies, etc....) he enjoyed this summer.

 

[TomLovesBecky]

I vote for counseling too. I think this has everything to in the world to do with the orphanage situation. He feels a security having money to share/flaunt/whatever, but then he has to be angry with someone for "letting" him do something wrong, and he is blaming you because you didn't even notice that he stole a very large sum of money. He needs you to be there for him because he still feels insecurity from the orphanage situation, but he resents you because he needs you. And you make him angry sometimes the way all good parents do. He wants you to save him from himself, deep down. All kids want that! Good luck, but whatever you do don't be fooled into thinking he doesn't need counseling. He totally needs it!

 

[barkley]

Unfortunately, among his group of friends, we are the "Joneses". He has privileges that many of his friends do not. His best friend has to be out of their apartment by the end of August because the house in which they rented 1/2 was sold. They were given just 30 days notice with a family of 4 children. Hopefully, his parents will find a house to buy soon while they live with his aunt.

I think DS may feel like he wants to share what he has with his friends. I know that is buying them, but he has always been a sharer. When we took him home from the orphanage, he had asked us to bring big chocolate bars for the caretakers. He and his sister broke pieces from the chocolate and shared it with all of the children.

I think he was just trying to share with his friends, not realizing that he was buying them.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine last night and he said we should take him to Valley Forge Military Academy to show him what could be his if he screws up just once more. He said that his parents did that with him when he misbehaved and seeing the cadets in their wool uniforms in 90 degree heat made him turn about quickly. I don't know about that with my DS. He thinks military life is so great that he'd probably beg us to go there if we showed it to him. Plus, I want to raise my child, not turn him over to a military academy to do it for me. KWIM?

i don't think showing or telling him what 'could' happen will nesc. have that much of an effect at this point (though i think a strong worded discussion from the uncle in law enforcement is advisable) unless you and your dh are on the exact same page that if there is a repeat of theft you are going to follow through (and most parents honestly don't-they give chance after chance and the kids come to realize that the odds are against them ever having to face anything other than their parent's). right now he's done it already and the best learning experience will be what IS happening as a result of it. nothing you show him as a future deterence will make any difference if he does not experience consequences for the current situation.

i can't see this as a situation where he wanted to share what he had with his friends-he was'nt. he was'nt taking what was his, or using funds he earned and sharing. he was taking what he knew was'nt his-and enjoying it in the company of his friends. he was the beneficiary of the theft-and his friends went along for the ride.

i applaud your desire to raise your own child. i've seen too many kids cycle in and out of the private schools my kids attend who are there strictly because their parents had some misguided idea that putting them there was going to teach them out of their inappropriate or illegal behaviours. just because our school made them accountable to behave in an appropriate manner made no difference at all if the parents were'nt doing the same at home (i recall one case in particular where the minute school got out for the summer the parents assuming the kid had 'learned' all they needed about behaving from the school gave the young teen the same freedoms she'd had and gotten into trouble with before. she did'nt return to our school because she was now getting her schooling in juvinile hall (she stole from a family member who had no reservations about reporting it to the police).

good luck to you (and btw-if you have a younger child, he/she will be observing all of this so what you do will infact be educating that one on this issue as well).

 

[tevagirl]

Unfortunately I have no words of wisdom for you. I just want to say how very sorry I am that you are going through this. You must be heart sick.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am glad to hear that you are looking into counseling!

I refrained from saying this again yesterday... because I know how it sounds... But, in all seriousness, I continue to be concerned about how this situation with a 13 year old could fly under parental radar.

I have seen a lot of weak excuses "But we thought...." "He told us that..." However, the bottom line is that your 13 year old had the time and the ability to blow thru thousands of dollars, and apparantly a lot of people in the community knew, and you were the last one to find out.

You sound like a wonderful person and a good/concerned parent!!! But, just for the sake of everybody involved, I do see this as an issue. An issue that, perhaps, you have not seemed to take ownership of yet.

Your son sounds like a good kid!!! (maybe a few issues, but we all have issues, right!!!)

I am sure that all will work out well !