I'm just sick over this...

[RUDisney]

i think the advice you've received about getting professional counseling is the best anyone can offer.

honestly, while the theft would be of horrendous concern to me-the fact that it appears he was activly lieing to you about his whereabouts to further conceal the theft would be an even bigger issue in our household. i have to imagine that if he was treating his friends to these meals, unless those friends have parents who don't monitor their whereabouts, these kids may have been lieing to their parents about where they were too (they may have said they were going to be at your house while your son told you he was going to be at theirs). i would be very hesitant to permit a child who had done this to have much if any freedom to go anywhere unless i could verify he was where he was supposed to be-and that 'where' had appropriate adult supervision.

several people have brought up concerns about drug usage (and btw-i don't think that he should have to agree to testing if a counselor reccommends it-it would be done period). given his family history of alcoholism i would tend to be more concerned with drinking. 13 is not too young an age to start experimenting, and if he has 2 bio parents who are alcoholics he could have a pre-disposition to developing the same (if he was exposed to alcohol as a fetus he could have a much more positive physical reaction to alcohol than the average 13 year old-and a much quicker apptitude to become addicted). not sure what state you live in, but if you are in one with non gov. liquor stores it's pretty easy to get an adult to purchase for you-esp. if you offer to compensate them (and it could explain why such large sums were spent over such a short period of time). i think it's something you need to look in to (i had friends who were extreemly high functioning alcoholics in highschool-their parents never suspected, and one of their habits was to consume ALLOT of food because it absorbed the alcohol in their bodies such that when they went home they did'nt show the classic signs of intoxication).

His lying is a huge issue to both my DH and I. We have told him that between his stealing and lying, it'll be a long time before he enjoys any freedoms and that trust will not return for a long time.

The alcohol items you posted are very scary. I have contemplated a lot since adopting him about how we will try to ensure that he stays sober. I know we can't control it, but we have been discussing his heredity since he learned to speak English. We also discuss that his Dad and I rarely drink. We want him to be contiously aware that we don't need alcohol to have fun. I certainly watch him for signs that he's been drinking and I've never seen any. But, I will say, that I'm going to put a lock on my wine cellar's door and I am having my DH contact his contractor friend about putting locking doors underneath our bar where the alcohol lives. This was always going to be done, this whole situation just makes it that much more urgent to prevent/control additional problems in a way that we can.

nothing you show him as a future deterence will make any difference if he does not experience consequences for the current situation.

good luck to you (and btw-if you have a younger child, he/she will be observing all of this so what you do will infact be educating that one on this issue as well).

He knows how I feel about sending him to a military academy. I don't want to do that. But, he also knows that if I'm pushed, I will do exactly that, so the threat would not be idle. He knows that I follow through on my threats, unlike some people. It would just absolutely break my heart to have to impart such tough love on him. I think the hardest part for him would be cutting off all his curls if he went to VF.

I refrained from saying this again yesterday... because I know how it sounds... But, in all seriousness, I continue to be concerned about how this situation with a 13 year old could fly under parental radar.

I have seen a lot of weak excuses "But we thought...." "He told us that..." However, the bottom line is that your 13 year old had the time and the ability to blow thru thousands of dollars, and apparantly a lot of people in the community knew, and you were the last one to find out.

This has me very concerned, too, and I have thought about it. I never had any reason to doubt him before this. I had all the same freedoms that I'd given to him and I never did anything that was even remotely egregious. His personality is so much like mine, it's scary. It couldn't have been more like mine if he was born from me. His DSis is just like her Dad. They are laid back, nothing phases them, they never get riled up. My DS and I are very gregarious; we make friends easily; we're very opinionated, sometimes to our detriment. I never thought I'd have to worry about him stealing from us. It was honestly never on my radar.

More on the radar was watching for any signs of alcohol or drug abuse. He'd gotten involved in Texas Hold Em games with our neighbors and we put a stop to those because he was getting over enthusiatic about the gambling aspect of the game. They'd play for a $5 buy in. My DS usually won. That is something that concerned us because of his genetic disposition to addictive behaviors. That's something that we'll discuss with the counselor.

As for my DD, she is a year younger than him. She backed off the other night when we were discussing this with him and every time we'd start to talk to him again, she'd conveniently make herself absent. She had a birthday party/sleepover last night and when she returned today, she and I had a long talk about what went on with her brother. I'll continue to talk to her so she is part of the solution and so that she knows how he is being punished/treated.

 

[bumbershoot]

My DH wanted me to post his opinion. He doesn't think your son is a terrible, emotionally disturbed person in need of counseling.

He said that any kid that finds a stash of cash in their house is going to be very tempted. Since he knows it's there, he's going to revisit the forbidden cash. Eventually he will notice that no one is using or monitoring said $$ and will convince himself that no one will notice if he only takes a little...then a little more...then a little more...

Finally, he realizes that he's taken enough that it will surely be noticed. At this point he may as well go hog wild since he's going to be caught anyway.

He's only 13. At this point the desire for the money outweighed his conscience. It doesn't mean he doesn't have one. He has probably never stolen anything from anyone but you and convinced himself that since you're his parents, it's not the same as stealing from a stranger/store/etc. DH said he's probably been living in complete terror for weeks waiting for it to hit the fan.

From what I know of my husband's experience in being "a liar", I think almost all of that is true. But counseling helped my husband as an adult work through the issues that caused him to be a "liar", and if he had agreed to counseling when he was younger, it wouldn't have had to touch our lives together.

My husband never stole like that, never lied about where he was and all of that, but he did lie. He wanted to please people. Everyone. So he would make things up to make them happy. And not tell them negative things so they would stay happy. Even when he knew they would find out (grades for instance) he would do it. He would rather put off the difficult discussion, the argument, the punishment until later (b/c maybe it wouldn't happen) rather than have it right at that moment.

He wasn't adopted, but he had a weird upbringing. Foreign-born mom who has never fully learned English. Doesn't write much. Military dad (well, first Navy then Merchant Marines, then shipping business of his own (until he defrauded the US and Malaysian gov'ts), then working for military support ships (big grey ships you see off of San Francisco were "his")) who was home *maybe* 6 months out of each year. Never fully learned Korean but never totally got the nuances of English either. Weird life.

His mom always kept cash, over 50K at one point, in the house. (although I don't see things WRONG with keeping cash in the house, I would like to point out that the OP's son STOLE 6K that wasn't easily noticed, which means it was far far more than just 6K being kept in the house) If hubby even thought he could have gotten away with it, he probably would have taken some, but actually I'm not sure he knew about it until he was in his 20s and living with his mom again, taking care of her after a heart attack she had. She told him at that point "just in case".

There were secrets and lies being kept and told in his household. Now I'm not saying the OP's household is like that...but who knows what secrets and lies were being kept and told in his household of birth?? That stuff leaves a mark. Hubby remembers the moment he became a liar, and it was when he was in 1st grade, and was punished for telling a lie that he hadn't told. His father beat him for lying, when he hadn't lied. And from that moment he decided that if he wasn't going to be believed when he told the truth, if lying could keep him out of "trouble", he would lie. That happened in 1st grade. About the same age that the OP's son was when he changed families. Stuff that happens in early childhood can stick.

I know counseling helped my husband, and I think it would help the OP's son. I know that when I was working as a chiropractor in a building with other more "out there" bodyworkers, there were several families bringing in their older adopted children for all sorts of things. Counseling, Brain Gym, other types of bodywork, to help them really work through the...omg I can't believe I've forgotten the term...help them get over the feelings of abandonment, the attachment disorders (ah, that's the phrase) caused by being older when taken from a bad home, or having lived in orphanages for years, so they could better integrate into the current family. Even though it might not be the cause of this, it might be worth exploring.


Oh, and to get behind the relative freedom this boy has had...it's possible the OP's town is like the area I grew up in in the 80s. We biked all over the place, we would go get lunch at restaurants, we would bike to my mom's workplace (we were latchkey kids and I was in charge from 9 on due to it actually being safer than the string of awful babysitters my mom could find). Our junior/middle school was an open campus and was a long block from the grocery store with restaurants, a drug store, a Hallmark store, and other places. We went every morning to that strip mall for snacks, before school started.

So I get the physical freedom, and I get how a kid could have access to places where you could buy things that could really add up. But if I lived in the area I grew up in NOW, there's no chance I would let my son have that freedom that I had, b/c it's changed. So maybe even if the town the OP lives in is as safe as my area used to feel, it is probably time to curtail the physical freedom, b/c he couldn't handle that freedom.

 

[RUDisney]

So I get the physical freedom, and I get how a kid could have access to places where you could buy things that could really add up. But if I lived in the area I grew up in NOW, there's no chance I would let my son have that freedom that I had, b/c it's changed. So maybe even if the town the OP lives in is as safe as my area used to feel, it is probably time to curtail the physical freedom, b/c he couldn't handle that freedom.

When we were in Russia, having our court hearing, the orphanage director, who'd been to our home, was speaking on our behalf. She told the judge how impressed she was that we lived so close to the center of town. That shows affluence in Russia. Here, it doesn't mean that so much when you get out of the downtowns of major cities.

Our town is safe. Most of the kids that are allowed as much freedom as my DS was are younger than he is. This is the first year that my DS has had so much freedom. He can get all over town on his bike and there are a lot of stores and restaurants that are accessible by bike.

But, that was then and this is now. He'll be on a much more restricted schedule... that is, when he's allowed to do anything with his friends again.

 

[MrsPete]

My DS (13) has had a lot of money lately. He gets money from relatives and he "works" for his uncle and earns some money. I didn't think much of him having money because it didn't seem like he was spending an overabundance of it, just what he gets from those sources. He's been going out to eat with his friends and telling me that he picks up the tab sometimes and they buy other times. They aren't going to expensive places, but places like Friendly's, Pizza Hut and a local diner.

So, I've been talking to people who are telling me that he always has a lot of cash when he's out and he likes to flaunt it. I had given him $30 to go to an amusement park on Tuesday with a church group. My youngest sister went with him and said he had well over $100 with him. He claimed that he had $52 when I asked him about it.

I spoke to his friend's mother last night and she told me that he had a wad of cash at the local carnival. She was concerned about his safety since he wasn't subtle about taking the cash from his pocket. It was during that conversation that I found out that his friends don't buy when they go out to dinner. My DS picks up the tab ALL THE TIME since he's the only one who ever has money. He also buys them things in the shops around town.

So, when DH got home last night, I told him about these concerns. It was around 10:30 and our DS was supposed to sleep over this friend's house, but when my DH checked his stash of cash he found that our DS had stolen over $6,000 from us. Money that was well hidden. (Why DH had so much cash in the house is beyond me and the rest has been deposited in the bank this morning.) We called DS and told him he was coming home now.

He denied stealing the cash but as we pressed him, he finally admitted that he'd taken it $100 at a time. He hasn't confessed as to why he did it other than to tell us that he didn't know whose money it was (DUH!) and he told me this morning that he took it because sometimes I make him mad (again, DUH! I'm his mother and it's not my job to make him happy by giving him his own way 100% of the time.) He's remorseful now because he's in trouble.

I told him that he's broken our trust and that if he'd stolen from someone else he'd be sitting in jail right now. He's in his room right now. We told him that we're going to setup an account into which he can accumulate the money that he stole from us. He told us to take the money from his college savings. Yeah, like that's going to happen. That's just more money that we saved for him to make things easier later. He claims that he's going to go to a military academy so he won't need money for college. I explained to him last night how few people make it into these academies and their grades are much better than what he's bringing home.

Basically, he's got an answer for everything except for why he did this.

If you've read this far, thank you. I feel like I've babbled through my venting.

Here's the bottom line... aside from making him repay this money, what other punishments do you suggest that we lay upon him? I'm thinking service hours/community service at a soup kitchen along with grounding him. This has just hit too close to home for me to think clearly and fairly about it.

Wow. You're dealing with several problems here, and each issue needs to be addressed so that the family can move forward:

1. He stole from you. He needs to make physical retribution to you for his crime. Other people have suggested starting by selling his ipod, video games . . . whatever. Then have him work around the house to pay for a portion of the rest. I think this is a good idea; the punishment fits the crime. However, I don't know that repaying the full $6000 is possible (or if it's possible, if it's reasonable). He's 13 -- still a baby. If you or I did this thing, of course we should have to repay the whole thing -- and interest too! But his ability to repay is considerably less. The "cost" of repayment should sting. It should sting badly. But at the same time, he should be able to see the end of the situation. He should be able to understand that he must put his shoulder to the grindstone and work hard, and at a certain point he will have redeemed himself and the situation will be over.

2. When caught, he lied about it. This is a natural kid behavior -- he didn't want to be in trouble! Grounding would be appropriate punishment for this; however, just like the cash, he needs to understand that through his punishment he can earn his way back into your good graces.

3. Instead of repaying his debt, he suggested dipping into YOUR savings, which he calls his college fund. This is a big concern because it shows he has little concept of working for money. He was looking for an easy, instant way out of his mistake. It's easy to say, "Oh, he's 13", but so many of our children today have no sense of delayed gratification, and that makes life tough for them later. Though it doesn't really fit into the reconcilliation of this particular situation, I'd look for ways for him to develop this skill.

4. He seems to have a need to be a big shot by showing off money. Your friend was already concerned for his safety when she saw him showing off wads of cash. Why does he feel the need to show off money? Is it a self-esteem issue? If so, you must be very cautious with the punishment he's about to receive -- you want it to hurt him, to allow him to feel the pain of what he's done, but you also want him to walk away from it having learned a big lesson about how to behave in the future. He needs to have NO MONEY in his pocket for a while, but he needs to find other ways to feel good about himself -- it'd be good if he could work for the money in ways that'd prove to him that he is capable and valuable: if he could build a fence, for example, he could look at it and say, "Hey, look at what I did".

This is a tough situation. I wish you luck.

 

[tonilea]

As for my DD, she is a year younger than him. She backed off the other night when we were discussing this with him and every time we'd start to talk to him again, she'd conveniently make herself absent. She had a birthday party/sleepover last night and when she returned today, she and I had a long talk about what went on with her brother. I'll continue to talk to her so she is part of the solution and so that she knows how he is being punished/treated.

First of all, I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you and your DH.

Second, since DD is making herself scarce during tense discussions - any possiblility she is feeling guilty? Perhaps she knew and didn't tell or took part and he is lying to protect her? Just a thought.

 

[RUDisney]

Second, since DD is making herself scarce during tense discussions - any possiblility she is feeling guilty? Perhaps she knew and didn't tell or took part and he is lying to protect her? Just a thought.

Hmm, I hadn't thought about that. I'm going to have to discuss what she knew in advance and why she didn't tell me about her brother having so much money. She wasn't on all of the amusement park trips with him, but she was on some, she should have at least seen then that he had a lot of money with him when she knew that I gave them equal amounts of spending money.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I would call a therapist ASAP. This is beyond normal teen behavior. I think counseling could really help him and could change his life for the better right now.

I would still make him pay back the money, of course, and I'd take away priviledges, too. I would not hold back any love or affection, though, and I'd include him in all family activities.

Good luck.

 

[lucyanna girl]

I read all of this last night late and thought about it before I posted.

First, let me say how sorry I am that you are going through this. I always enjoy your posts and can tell what a good person you are.

When you trust someone, adult or child, you do not look for deception and so it is easy to be deceived. You especially do not look for dishonesty in your child. Therefore, it hurts twice as bad if it happens.

I would also suggest counseling. A professional is trained to see what we might not see ourselves and to help set a person back on the right track.

There have been plenty of suggestions for punishment. When it comes down to it you know your child and your heart better than anyone here.

Hang in there.

Penny

 

[RUDisney]

He had to be an altar server at Mass tonight and after Mass, I thought he'd walked home with Dad. I was chatting outside with some friends and after a long while, he comes out of the church. He had taken it upon himself to talk to the priest about what he did and to make a confession while they were in the sacristy. I told him how proud I was that he'd done that. It shows that he is remorseful and doesn't want to continue down this path. He's even talking about getting up early every morning and going to Mass so he can pray for God's forgiveness and our forgiveness.

OTOH, we're not stopping at that. If the therapist I called on Friday doesn't return my call by noon tomorrow, I'll be calling someone else who was recommended to me. My Mom had the name of someone she'd met who actually deals with a lot of foreign adoptive children.

Today, he didn't sit in his room as much. I've become a big reader and he, Dad and I sat outside on the deck and read together. Tonight, I even read a short story out loud to him. Now, since it's dark, he's in his room again.

His friends aren't calling. They all know he's grounded indefinitely.

 

[dairyou]

I think it is so good that he is remorseful. I don't think anything worse can happen when you discipline your kids and they are not sorry for what they did or make excuses for why it happened. I think he's a great kid

Of course it doesn't stop the mistrust or put the money back into where he took it from, but I think that's a good start. Sounds like you have a good plan.

Continued Success!

Deb

 

[Linzybrooke]

RUDisney, I'm glad you are on your way to figuring this out, and I know you have a lot of great advice so far. However, I want to throw out a couple of things based on your posts from today.

1. My sis and I always knew what the other was up too, even if we didn't talk about it. We were a couple of years apart and just heard from others, or saw, stuff going on. It is very possible that your DD knew what was going on.

2. I'm not Catholic, so I'm not sure what the rules are of confession, but you might find out if he really was confessing before accepting that as fact. I had a very good friend growing up who got into trouble when we were in high school. She would tell her parents she was at confession and would actually just hide out in a bathroom or with friends who also went to their church for the amount of time she thought she should confess in an effort to gain her parents trust. She did this for months before anyone found out. If he is really going to confession thats great. If he wants you to take him to church early in the mornings for confession, I would support him but ask a priest or church member to meet you in the parking lot to pick him up, or walk him in and pass him over to the priest so that you know you aren't dropping him off and then he is taking off and going somewhere else. It just sounds as easy as, "I'm having dinner at Timmy's house tonight" KWIM?

Good luck!

 

[RUDisney]

Linzybrooke, your comments about confession are very appropos. DS went to tell his uncle this morning what he did since his uncle wasn't at work on Saturday. His uncle is very religious and goes to Mass every day. He told him that it is time to start learning how to say the rosary and we should say it as a family every day. He told him that there is no reason why he shouldn't be at Mass every week. (We go anyway.) He told him that he wants him to go to the priest who serves the Mass and have him sign to show that he was at Mass and DS is required to bring it to work the next Saturday. He also wants him to go to confession 1X per month and have the priest sign a paper stating that he did so.

His uncle told him that he was very disappointed in him and it's time to start praying for forgiveness while he's working to pay us back. He really gave my DS a good talk, and trust me, the scariest person to go to and tell him that you've done something wrong is my DH's uncle. That's why it was important for DS to go to him and get his thoughts and opinions. Oh, and the first thing he asked was if he was buying cigarettes, cigars or drugs with the money, because it is a lot of money to have blown on food and junk. DS vehemently denied it and their conversation came back to that several times.

So, DS says to me last night, "I'm really happy that you're finally starting to trust me again." I asked what would make him think that. He said that I was finally smiling at him again and talking to him about things other than what he'd done. I told him that I loved him and we had to continue to be a family, but that doesn't mean that we trust him at all yet. That's something he's going to have to work on for a long time. He promised me that our trust was the most important goal in his life right now. Time will tell...

 

[Loverly]

Any update?

 

[RUDisney]

He's been grounded since we found out. He gets 1 hour of TV per day and 1/2 hour on the computer for a study-related website. He has not been to a football game or dance. An account has been opened into which he's depositing money to repay us. The first appointment with the counselor is tomorrow. He's not looking forward to that.

Overall, he's not complaining about his punishment and he knows what he did was wrong. I'm far more positive about a good outcome to this situation than I was at the beginning of it.

 

[rie'smom]

I'm very happy that things are working out for you! Hugs and prayers are for a continued good outlook.

 

[mudman]

He's been grounded since we found out. He gets 1 hour of TV per day and 1/2 hour on the computer for a study-related website. He has not been to a football game or dance. An account has been opened into which he's depositing money to repay us. The first appointment with the counselor is tomorrow. He's not looking forward to that.

Overall, he's not complaining about his punishment and he knows what he did was wrong. I'm far more positive about a good outcome to this situation than I was at the beginning of it.

Glad to read this update.

I don't know why, but this entire thread reminds me of an ebay auction where a dad (as a punishment) lists an auction for a gift once designated for his son until he caught him smoking pot.

Anyone remember this...?


http://news.softpedia.com/news/Parent-Sells-Pot-Smoking-Son-039-s-Guitar-Hero-3-on-Ebay-73161.shtml

 

[Kim in TN]

I just wanted to offer my hugs and sympathies for the heartache you've felt!

 

[DawnCt1]

Sounds like you are really on top of things. Good for you and your family. I hope all goes well. I have been following your thread. Raising children is never easy. Raising teenagers is certainly more challenging.

 

[a1tinkfans]

WOW!

My heart goes out to you!

I just want to say that I read the thread and the only "thing" that "worries me" is the talk about "gong to church, going to confession, getting it all "SIGNED"
I agree that Church may be an eye opening experience for your son, A wonderful way to experience religion, but "forcing" it may backfire and actually turn him away as though Church was some sort of punishment, which is clearly NOT the message you're all going for.

I am happy to hear that you're seeking counseling as I think the BIGGER picture of WHY the stealing and WHY the need to be the center of attention and the main attraction is significant.
You sound like an amazing mom and I wish you and your entire family the VERY BEST!
I hope you'll keep us updated ON THE SUCCESS too.

 

[MossMan]

He's been grounded since we found out. He gets 1 hour of TV per day and 1/2 hour on the computer for a study-related website. He has not been to a football game or dance. An account has been opened into which he's depositing money to repay us. The first appointment with the counselor is tomorrow. He's not looking forward to that.

Overall, he's not complaining about his punishment and he knows what he did was wrong. I'm far more positive about a good outcome to this situation than I was at the beginning of it.

This makes me smile. Actually it makes me smile a lot.

I hope you and your son are getting more smiles in as well.