I'm curious - percentage of students with IEP/504/etc

[summerrluvv]

Most kids that start out in K with an IEP have already been through early intervention & CPSE, and their needs have been identified.

Also, I was told by a special education attorney that in NY (not sure about other states), the district by law has to tell you the classifications of the children in the class IF you ask (i.e. multiply disabled, orthopedically impaired, LD, speech impaired, etc.). They however, cannot tell you WHO is classified. If a child has an IEP, they have a classification.

 

[MM27]

Ok, you brought it up.... hehehehe. I was trying to refrain from commenting on this, but now that the question has been asked, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I went to my youngest son's Kindergarten room meeting. A parent asked about an accommodation for his IEP. The teacher said that she didn't know yet, and that she would be meeting with the IEP director later that week to get her schedule all worked out. Well that got all the parents talking, and the parents of 8 of the 19 kids in class started asking about their IEPs.

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?
Please don't misunderstand me; I am all for helping kids in any way necessary so they can succeed. But with such a large percentage of the class already having an IEP, I kind of felt like the system was being abused. Time, staffing, and resources are limited. If this is the new trend, and 50% of the school has and IEP then the students who need it the most can't be getting the full support they need. And then what about us parents who have just plain ol' kids? How can a teacher have 8 different sets of rules and still have time to teach the "normal" kids to the best of her ability? It seems so unfair to her. I felt really bad for DS's teacher.

I don't think that you understand what an IEP is all about. IEPs are not just handed out randomly because a parent feels their child will need accommodations in the classroom or extra help with something. If a parent believes their child may need extras, they can definitely ask for their child to be screened, but it does not mean that they will qualify for an IEP.

I teach 4th grade. The process is a long one to even get to the point where an IEP is written. First the teacher needs to put in a referral to the Intervention and Referral Services. The team meets with the parents, teachers, etc. and discuss issues the child is having that warranted the referral. Then strategies are put in place for the teacher to use in the classroom (change of seating, peer assistance with tasks, breaking down tasks, behavior systems, etc.) They usually give anywhere between 4 and 8 weeks to see if those things work. If they do, nothing further needs to be done, except to meet every so often to kind of check up on the progress.

If those things do not work to help the child, different strategies are discussed, tried in the classroom for another 4-8 weeks, and so on. If the child is still not successful even with those changes, a referral to the child study team can be done and testing can begin. After several different people on the child study team do their part of the testing, they meet and evaluate the child's needs, which could mean writing the IEP.

I've seen the process take from September (when I made the original referral) to April (when the actual IEP was put in place). So no, it's not just something done on a whim because a parent things it will help their child.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Most kids that start out in K with an IEP have already been through early intervention & CPSE, and their needs have been identified.

Also, I was told by a special education attorney that in NY (not sure about other states), the district by law has to tell you the classifications of the children in the class IF you ask (i.e. multiply disabled, orthopedically impaired, LD, speech impaired, etc.). They however, cannot tell you WHO is classified. If a child has an IEP, they have a classification.

Right. They don't just "get" an IEP if they don't do well in that learning environment. They need to be diagnosed with something.

 

[cheerful chickadee]

pardon my ignorance but what exactly are 504's and IEP's? what are the differences between the two? what issues being about the need for either?

 

[okeydokey]

Well in my family it is 50%. I have no clue about the entire school system. my husband was surprised when I told him our son was considered an ESE student due to his gifted classes. An IEP is for every kid with any need outside of basic education.

 

[daughtersrus]

Ok, you brought it up.... hehehehe. I was trying to refrain from commenting on this, but now that the question has been asked, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I went to my youngest son's Kindergarten room meeting. A parent asked about an accommodation for his IEP. The teacher said that she didn't know yet, and that she would be meeting with the IEP director later that week to get her schedule all worked out. Well that got all the parents talking, and the parents of 8 of the 19 kids in class started asking about their IEPs.

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?

Please don't misunderstand me; I am all for helping kids in any way necessary so they can succeed. But with such a large percentage of the class already having an IEP, I kind of felt like the system was being abused. Time, staffing, and resources are limited. If this is the new trend, and 50% of the school has and IEP then the students who need it the most can't be getting the full support they need. And then what about us parents who have just plain ol' kids? How can a teacher have 8 different sets of rules and still have time to teach the "normal" kids to the best of her ability? It seems so unfair to her. I felt really bad for DS's teacher.

It sounds like you're not familiar with Early Intervention (birth-3yo) program or Early Childhood (3yo-5yo) program. Children with needs are serviced in the EI program and once they age out at 3yo, they are serviced through the local school district.

There are tests, evals, studies...done before a child is placed on an IEP.

 

[daughtersrus]

pardon my ignorance but what exactly are 504's and IEP's? what are the differences between the two? what issues being about the need for either?

Here's a link that explains the difference.

http://www.washington.edu/doit/Stem/articles?52


Subtle but Important Differences

Not all students who have disabilities require specialized instruction. For students with disabilities who do require specialized instruction, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) controls the procedural requirements, and an IEP is developed. The IDEA process is more involved than that of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and requires documentation of measurable growth. For students with disabilities who do not require specialized instruction but need the assurance that they will receive equal access to public education and services, a document is created to outline their specific accessibility requirements. Students with 504 Plans do not require specialized instruction, but, like the IEP, a 504 Plan should be updated annually to ensure that the student is receiving the most effective accommodations for his/her specific circumstances.

 

[monarchsfan16]

Ok, you brought it up.... hehehehe. I was trying to refrain from commenting on this, but now that the question has been asked, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I went to my youngest son's Kindergarten room meeting. A parent asked about an accommodation for his IEP. The teacher said that she didn't know yet, and that she would be meeting with the IEP director later that week to get her schedule all worked out. Well that got all the parents talking, and the parents of 8 of the 19 kids in class started asking about their IEPs.

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?

Please don't misunderstand me; I am all for helping kids in any way necessary so they can succeed. But with such a large percentage of the class already having an IEP, I kind of felt like the system was being abused. Time, staffing, and resources are limited. If this is the new trend, and 50% of the school has and IEP then the students who need it the most can't be getting the full support they need. And then what about us parents who have just plain ol' kids? How can a teacher have 8 different sets of rules and still have time to teach the "normal" kids to the best of her ability? It seems so unfair to her. I felt really bad for DS's teacher.

For the sake of coordinating services (i.e., it's known that a specialist has x time free to work with kindergarteners each day), it's not uncommon, especially in K for all of the kids needing services to be placed, say in the morning class, with some typically developing peers, and then the afternoon class (again, hypothetical) is entirely typically developing kids. Even in older grades, certain teachers tend to end up with the bulk of the coded kids, for service coordinating reasons, or even reasons related to the ability of the teachers.

Long answer to say that while 50% seems huge, there may be reasons for it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I was shocked that almost 50% of the class had an IEP. Kindergartners - students who have never been in a public school before - and before the very first day 50% of the parents are sure that their kid needs special accommodations. How do they know little Johnny needs additional help in anything? Johnny hasn't been to school yet. How do they know that the concerns they have won't be addressed in a typical Kindergarten environment?

First, thank goodness early intervention is really addressed these days. I believe that in most states, by federal standard, early intervention begins at the age of three, at the third birthday. One can not assume that registration at Kindergarten is the first time any evaluation and early intervention has taken place for these children.

Second, the Kindergartener who has never been in any pre-school type program is probably a big minority.
One can not assume that this is the first time that these children have been in this type of learning environment.

Third, I know that where I live, there will be one or two classrooms in each age/grade where the students who need special IEP help will be concentrated to provide an inclusive enviroment, as it would be almost impossible for school systems to cover the staff and finances to cover every single classroom. One can not assume that 50%

I feel that your post ( and any related negative judgment calls) may be based on several flawed assumptions.

 

[Malibustyle23]

How did you know?

Well my son is one of the three. Atleast every Monday I volunteer in my sons class and I am aware of which ones go out with the specialist teacher with my son when she comes into take them out or assists them in the classroom.

As far as this year while the teacher did not tell me who the other 2 were (although I already know) she did tell me that there would Ve 3 in the class that will be going out with the specialist when I brought up about DS having the IEP.

Although all the meetings, paperwork, etc is done in private if you are active in the school you can see easily see who has interactions with the specialist. But this is just a small town elementary school.

Eta: My daughter will also have an IEP before starting her first day of school (if there's no big progress) she has an ifsp, I think that's the right initials? She's 2 and has speech therapy through the county's infant and toddlers program. So unless enough progress is made shell arrive on her first day with a IEP.

 

[HelenePA]

My school does not allow parent volunteers... it never has to my knowledge.. I started in '83. Not sure about when my mom went there and she is dead so I can't ask lol

 

[Malibustyle23]

My school does not allow parent volunteers... it never has to my knowledge.. I started in '83. Not sure about when my mom went there and she is dead so I can't ask lol

Wow! Is there a reason why not? Do you guys have a PTA/pro?

Well we have class mom/dad, active daily, weekly, whenever volunteers, yearbook commitees, fundraising groups, winterfest groups, etc, etc.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Around here you are not given that kind of privileged information. It's none of my business who has an IEP in the class, and it's none of yours either IMHO.

 

[MnMomtoboys]

I honestly don't see how. You can probably be pretty sure about some, but like I said, some with IEPs never leave and others leave who don't have IEPs.

I didn't know everyone's details but with our class we were all pretty close and get together every month or more so in that case I knew a lot but others could tell by who left. No one I knew tried to hide it was what it was.

Everyone ok us getting the percentage numbers for the class size, the district never listened to the teachers or the principal but they did listen to the parents and the numbers.

I realize how lucky I was with this school. I only had a problem with the district twice and the Principal and the teachers backed us up both times. Luckily the special ed parents had complete support of the teachers and principal. It wasn't until here that I knew that other parents looked down on us.

 

[HelenePA]

Wow! Is there a reason why not? Do you guys have a PTA/pro?

Well we have class mom/dad, active daily, weekly, whenever volunteers, yearbook commitees, fundraising groups, winterfest groups, etc, etc.

I dunno if there is an offical reason why... I dont know of any school around me that allows it.. .

Yes we have PTA but its held 2nd tuesday of the month at 6pm not during school hours... Its worked here for at least 30 years. Most classes now have a teacher and teacher aid.. sometimes the aid is shared between 2 classes... most classes have less than 20 kids... What exactly do you do? Why do the schools need outside help? I've never understood this being we never had it.

 

[MnMomtoboys]

I dunno if there is an offical reason why... I dont know of any school around me that allows it.. .

Yes we have PTA but its held 2nd tuesday of the month at 6pm not during school hours... Its worked here for at least 30 years. Most classes now have a teacher and teacher aid.. sometimes the aid is shared between 2 classes... most classes have less than 20 kids... What exactly do you do? Why do the schools need outside help? I've never understood this being we never had it.

In the public school I've done math help, reading help, stuff the weekly envelopes, copies, library, general questions, secret reader, playground help, lunch help, and I'm sure I'm missing a few jobs.

With the private school I've done all of the above including secratary relief, quickly subbed for a teacher for awhile when she got sick(luckily that was only 10 minutes before they went to gym) and helped once a week to keep one of my sons classmates whose parents refused to believe that their son didn't not having developmental delays.

Now I didn't do all of these at once this is just what I have done over the years. And I wasn't the only one there.

 

[HelenePA]

Do classes have an aide as well or just volunteers? All of the things you listed teacher aides do here. they are paid positions (not paid very well but paid nonetheless!) Some have co-teachers, I just found this out yesterday and usually the kids with the IEPs go to those classes... my dd9 last year had a co-teacher who specialized with SpEd kids... She does not have an IEP at all, nor does she need one.. she helped out a lot with other kids who were behind her, she picks stuff up very fast. I have no idea if the kids she "helped" had IEPs she doesn't know either.. she just has amazing spelling abilities and loves math... she is a wonderful student... I told the teacher she is the exact opposite of her sister who can NOT spell or do math (sped) I love em both though!

 

[MnMomtoboys]

Do classes have an aide as well or just volunteers? All of the things you listed teacher aides do here. they are paid positions (not paid very well but paid nonetheless!) Some have co-teachers, I just found this out yesterday and usually the kids with the IEPs go to those classes... my dd9 last year had a co-teacher who specialized with SpEd kids... She does not have an IEP at all, nor does she need one.. she helped out a lot with other kids who were behind her, she picks stuff up very fast. I have no idea if the kids she "helped" had IEPs she doesn't know either.. she just has amazing spelling abilities and loves math... she is a wonderful student... I told the teacher she is the exact opposite of her sister who can NOT spell or do math (sped) I love em both though!

Generally no, unless they have a student teacher. But the parents would still be doing the same things. The student teacher would be there to teach and the regular teacher would help the kids individually or grade papers. The aides are there to help the special ed students.

And yes the smart kids did help anyone that needed it. Most classes the desks were in groups of 4, 5 or 6. I don't know how they figured out everyone schedules. John's grade had 120 to 130 students every year spread over 4 classes.

 

[alaskanabbott]

to the OP-
IF your little Johnny doesn't need an IEP or 504, don't worry yourself with those that do The school has it taken care of and us parents of the little Johnny's that have them are concerned enough that our children are getting the best education they can, that dealing with snippy parents who are irritated that a "special" kid is getting some kind of "special" treatment is too big a deal. I don't worry that the non-IEP kids are in the class, don't worry that my IEP kid is.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Here's a link that explains the difference.

http://www.washington.edu/doit/Stem/articles?52


Subtle but Important Differences

Not all students who have disabilities require specialized instruction. For students with disabilities who do require specialized instruction, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) controls the procedural requirements, and an IEP is developed. The IDEA process is more involved than that of Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and requires documentation of measurable growth. For students with disabilities who do not require specialized instruction but need the assurance that they will receive equal access to public education and services, a document is created to outline their specific accessibility requirements. Students with 504 Plans do not require specialized instruction, but, like the IEP, a 504 Plan should be updated annually to ensure that the student is receiving the most effective accommodations for his/her specific circumstances.

My son had a 504 for his ADHD and SID, but they determined he has a writing disability and needs OT for his SID, so he now has a IEP.

Also, a lot of people do not know this, but you can "graduate" from special education (here you don't need an IEP for gifted/enrichment). Many children do and I'm pretty sure my child will be one of them.