Iger Planning to Kill Imagineering?

[WBHoenig]

Honestly no Never been to Disneyland. Our attitude is if we go to Disney, we'd rather have four parks than two.

However, I would put most of the blame here on Eisner and his extreme budget cuts. WDI was given very little time or money to create these parks.

 

[ChrisFL]

I've been to both DCA and AK and DCA is by far the worst...AK while lacking some attractions actually has some flow, the areas make sense, and theming done well (save for maybe dinorama)...DCA doesn't, half of it is like a cheap version of MGM studios, and part of it looks like, or IS an amusement park with no real theming, and then a few other things thrown in like the Soarin' area and the Grizzly mountain thing.

 

[MJMcBride]

A.V. I took your message out of context because I wanted to point out one major descrepency. I agree with much of the childhood fantasy, but fantasy is for the MK. People do spend money to see things at Disney that they can also see at the "real" places. Take World Showcase for example. It seems that if you had your way, it just wouldn't exist. Why would people shell out thousands of dollars to visit replicas of other countries?

I have to agree with exDS vet on this point. It just seems like everyone always pines for the "gold old days" in everything. They don't make music like they used to, they don't make movies like they used to, and they don't make theme parks like they use to.

I wonder if there were DIS boards in the 60s and 70s would we be panning those attractions. Frankly, I don't think everything Walt did was great by any means.

 

[Another Voice]

Frankly, I don't think everything Walt did was great by any means.

I absolutely agree. No one remembers the Disneyland Circus and few had life changing moments in ‘If You Had Wings’.

The difference was that Disney always tried to do good work, and they always tried to improve one what they had already achieved. Look at the huge leaps Disneyland made from its opening – from the ‘Jungle Cruise’ to ‘Star Tours’.

Disney simply doesn’t try today. They are satisfied with the “good enough”. ‘Expedition: Everest is nothing by the ‘Matterhorn’ with a new track. There is nothing new in ‘Everest’ – even the yeti is a clone.

For the last decade Disney has run its business like a typical consumer brand. It’s been offering products that are just good enough to keep open the wallets of those willing to settle for just good enough. People go to Animal Kingdom because it’s just good enough to see since you’re already at WDW; people go to California Adventure because it’s just good enough to see if it comes free with a ticket to Disneyland.

But none of these places have added new people to Disney’s consumer base. No one who scoffed at drop the five grand for a WDW was suddenly converted into a DVC owner because of Dino-Rama.

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

....Disney simply doesn’t try today. They are satisfied with the “good enough”. ‘Expedition: Everest is nothing by the ‘Matterhorn’ with a new track. There is nothing new in ‘Everest’ – even the yeti is a clone.

For the last decade Disney has run its business like a typical consumer brand. It’s been offering products that are just good enough to keep open the wallets of those willing to settle for just good enough. People go to Animal Kingdom because it’s just good enough to see since you’re already at WDW; people go to California Adventure because it’s just good enough to see if it comes free with a ticket to Disneyland.

But none of these places have added new people to Disney’s consumer base. No one who scoffed at drop the five grand for a WDW was suddenly converted into a DVC owner because of Dino-Rama.

Having owned Macs my whole life and having several iPods in our household, I'm a firm believer that Apple and Steve Jobs aren't ones to settle for good enough. Hopefully his influence will spill over to Disney and Iger.

 

[YoHo]

Oooo, don't get AV started on Apple.


And frankly, if you think the Audio quality on the Ipod is anything better then good enough, you need to have your ears checked.

 

[barreloflaughs]

And frankly, if you think the Audio quality on the Ipod is anything better then good enough, you need to have your ears checked.

I understand that it can be made better than good by using the lossless file format and buying good (e.g., expensive) headphones and a headphone amp.

In other words........i agree with you..........not good enough...i'll pass.

barrel

 

[WBHoenig]

Isn't this a bit off topic? iPods and file codecs? Personally I think Apple products are worse than even Microsoft; an excellent Unix core with junk on top. Go Linux!

Back on topic, I think that Eisner has done nothing good for the company for the past decade, and on out last vacation to WDW that was very evident, however you could tell that something major had changed recently. Let's just sit back, give Iger some room here and see what he does. In the past months Animal Kingdom (for me) has become a lot more 'Disney' and therefore fun IMO; let's just see.

 

[MJMcBride]

Disney simply doesn’t try today.

I don't think thats fair at all. I think Disney is trying. You could even argue that Eisner tried- failed maybe- but tried. That is just an oversimplification. I can't defend Expedition Everest because I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like a great ride from various reviews and TV specials. Plus, I still say Disney has added a lot of great interesting attractions over the recent past. I know we've fought this fight before Soarin and Turtle Talk are innovative and great.

 

[WBHoenig]

I don't think thats fair at all. I think Disney is trying. You could even argue that Eisner tried- failed maybe- but tried. That is just an oversimplification. I can't defend Expedition Everest because I haven't tried it yet, but it seems like a great ride from various reviews and TV specials. Plus, I still say Disney has added a lot of great interesting attractions over the recent past. I know we've fought this fight before Soarin and Turtle Talk are innovative and great.

I agree 100% with this post. And By the way: E:E is an excellent ride in my opinion

 

[barreloflaughs]

In the past months Animal Kingdom (for me) has become a lot more 'Disney' and therefore fun IMO; let's just see.

You mean they finally bulldozed Dinoland, U.S.A??? Well, alrighty then....I'm with you!

barrel

 

[barreloflaughs]

I don't think thats fair at all. I think Disney is trying.

"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try. "...Dis-wa-nobi

Now...where can I get one of those Jedi avatars?

barrel

 

[YoHo]

A multiBillion dollar entertainment conglomerate needs to be given a break for trying? Are you kidding me?

 

[mjstaceyuofm]

Oooo, don't get AV started on Apple.


And frankly, if you think the Audio quality on the Ipod is anything better then good enough, you need to have your ears checked.

Didn't know an AV quote + a reference to Apple was taboo.... Now I know. Thanks.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I think Apple provides quality, innovative products that are distinguishable from the rest. I would hope that Disney starts to do the same. I have yet to be on E:E, but I see where AV is coming from. I had the same opinion about it when I first started to hear about the ride - essentially that WDI was told to manufacture "a new E-ticket attraction and story" around a roller-coaster to boost attendance at AK. Maybe they pulled it off and made a quaility ride, maybe they didn't. AK has seemingly received a boost in attendance with E:E. We'll see if it holds up over time.

I think it's the process and lack of original outcomes that AV has a beef with. There probably was a better way to go about boosting attendance at AK. But, I guess it's hard for me to have a balanced opinion because I'm such a fan of WDW in general. Mostly I put on my WDW rose-colored glasses and can't think objectively.

By the way, I'm pretty sure my hearing is bad - too many years of listening to my Sony Walkman at exceedingly high decibels as a child coupled with working at a car-wash as a teenager (lotsa loud equipment in those). I'm far from an audiophile. All I know is that my iPod(s) is intuitive, sleek, easy-to-use, and gets the job done for me when I work out and/or mow the lawn etc. I think it's a great product.

 

[MJMcBride]

A multiBillion dollar entertainment conglomerate needs to be given a break for trying? Are you kidding me?

I never said that at all. AV said Disney isn't even trying. All I said was that that was not fair. And what is exactly wrong with "trying"? Sometimes things might seem good on paper but don't work out.

 

[dbm20th]

Plus, I still say Disney has added a lot of great interesting attractions over the recent past. I know we've fought this fight before Soarin and Turtle Talk are innovative and great.

Not this again. Do I need to find my list of great things WDI has produced in the last 10 years???? It always seems to come back to this. The facts are that some are happy with the new stuff and some are not. As you said before, this will always be the case. For everyone who loves E:E or RnR or whatever, there will be some purist who finds something to complain about. It is just the way it is. (And for every purist, there are people like me who think Dumbo is the most ridiculous carnival rip-off waste of time in the park.)

 

[Another Voice]

The facts are that some are happy with the new stuff and some are not.

The only fact that really matters is which rides will the public pay for and which ones they are won't.

Based on all the recent evidence, the public really isn't all that interested in the latest offerings.

The opening of 'Indiana Jones' - the last true Disney-level attraction - drove Disneyland's attendance to record setting levels. But an entirely new park, filled with all the latest attractions struggles to sell 5,000 tickets a day.

What have been the lines at 'Mission: Space' recently?

The ideas behind "Disney Design" are important not because Walt made them, or because we're all wearing rose colored glasses. They're important becasue they work. Ignoring the rules leads to business failure; the last four parks Disney opened - Animal Kingdom, California Adventure, Disney Studios Paris and now Hong Kong Disneyland - have all failed to meet their business plans.

It's not a matter of "like" or "dislike". It's a matter of running a profitable company.

 

[MJMcBride]

The ideas behind "Disney Design" are important not because Walt made them, or because we're all wearing rose colored glasses. They're important becasue they work. Ignoring the rules leads to business failure; the last four parks Disney opened - Animal Kingdom, California Adventure, Disney Studios Paris and now Hong Kong Disneyland - have all failed to meet their business plans.

It's not a matter of "like" or "dislike". It's a matter of running a profitable company.

I think you only wear rose colored glasses when you look in the rearview mirror. Having said that, you are right (how's that for a left turn). In the end, the only thing that matter is what people like.

They still love Tower of Terror and Splash Mountain. Mission Space not so much (although in fairness the bad press on this ride may have something to do with that). I think Soarin' may have staying power. I think its possible that Expedition Everest might (which would help DAK in general).

 

[Another Voice]

They still love Tower of Terror and Splash Mountain.

'Splash Mountain' yes (it's older than 'Indiana Jones' by a good number of years) - but 'Tower of Terror' at Califorina Adventure is a complete walk-on. There wasn't even a noticeable bump in paid attendance when it first opened.

'Soaring' lacks the extra effort required a truely long lasting ride no matter how many times they changed the film. 'Everest' will be a walk-on by next summer and become the 'Body Wars' of Animal Kingdom (a thrill ride of last resort 'cause everyone's bored).

 

[ChrisFL]

'Everest' will be a walk-on by next summer and become the 'Body Wars' of Animal Kingdom (a thrill ride of last resort 'cause everyone's bored).

The same could have been said of Test Track when it opened, but everytime I go to Epcot, it has at least a 30-60 minute wait. I think the same will happen for Everest.

Comparing a steel coaster that people tend to love, to a flight simulator technology so popular that they stopped being built 10 years ago is kind of a stretch