If you believe in God.......

[6_Time_Momma]

Whoa, now there's loaded title, huh? Anyway, I am wondering what your take is on the age old question of "why do bad things happen?"

I am hoping this can remain civil (I have high hopes, what can I say?) because I really do enjoy religious discussions when they remain civil. And I really am curious as to answers.

So, do you think it's all due to free choice? Natural laws?

Do you think God causes them?

Do you think God cannot stop them?

Or, is this a current sticking point with you and God, and you really have no answer?

What is your basis for why you believe the way you do? I.E. because it's what you've been told......personal experience.....it just seems like the "right" answer.....etc

It seems like this may have been discussed before, but heck, I can't remember. (Consider this research for me )

 

[Spinning]

to me bad things happen because of free will. And things have to run its course. I feel God intervens as he feels is best, but not always in the way we feel is best or right. I feel, He is there for us to get us through it no matter what the out come is.
I have lost many dear people in my life to cancer. I have no idea why they had to die and others have survived. But I know that my faith and belief in God helped me deal and cope. And gave me a sense of peace and that I was never alone. I have come to my reasoning by both experience and what feels right for me. I don't believe that God is vengeful, mean or causes bad things to happen. To me he is love and cries right along with us when bad things happen.

 

[helenabear]

Can't completely answer that... some things are caused by free will... those who aren't listening to God's desires. Some things are just fate... beyond our control.

Everything that happens shapes us though, and I do believe there are definitely some things that God has planned that we have no idea on. And I also believe there are other things that God didn't have planned that did just happen.

See no good answer here

 

[safetymom]

I feel that some bad things happen because of free will and others because of fate. After my husband died and I felt like I hadn't done enough to keep him alive many people said it was fate or it was already written how he was going to die and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

 

[mommaU4]

My aunt battled with leukemia last year and almost died. She's the most Christian like person I know. When she pulled through everyone in the family all said she was saved by a miracle, that it was God's doing and that He heard their prayers.

Well, that bugged me because I thought what about the others who also prayed to God to cure their loved ones? Were they not worthy? Did God just decide to ignore their prayers?

I'm very happy my aunt pulled through. The doctors did a great job.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Whoa, now there's loaded title, huh? Anyway, I am wondering what your take is on the age old question of "why do bad things happen?"

I am hoping this can remain civil (I have high hopes, what can I say?) because I really do enjoy religious discussions when they remain civil. And I really am curious as to answers.

So, do you think it's all due to free choice? Natural laws?

Do you think God causes them?

Do you think God cannot stop them?

Or, is this a current sticking point with you and God, and you really have no answer?

What is your basis for why you believe the way you do? I.E. because it's what you've been told......personal experience.....it just seems like the "right" answer.....etc

It seems like this may have been discussed before, but heck, I can't remember. (Consider this research for me )

OK..these are my beliefs and my alone..they are not neccessarily those of any religion..I belive we have free will.If G-d steps in and chages events than we don;t really have free will.IE if I pray to G-d and ask him to heal me of AIDS,then in the end,we don't have free will..G-d decides.
I don't believe who he choses to inflict.I don't think he stands up their and decides.. Michelle will have a miscarriage.Bob will get run over by a car.Jenny will Get AIDS. I believe Jenny got AIDS because she had unproteced sex...I don't believe it's part of some grand plan..I do believe however,that G-d is there to suppport us and hold us whem the bad happens,and to rejoice for the good
Is ir has fault? Only in the grand sense,that he created uman beings to be flawed,to get sick and die. Beyond that,It's up to us. People die of diseas because the human body is frail. People die in car accidents,because cars move at fast speeds and break down upon impact.
When I see people thanking G-d for saving their child IE Elisabeth Smart (physically)I wonder,Do people Like John Walsh wonder why G-d took his child.Were his prayers not enough?
Either G-d is unfair and picks and choose whem he helps.or he set rules in motion at the start that he chooses not to break. If he interferes,do we really have free will>?
This belief enables me to say G-d..Thank you for giviung me strenght and confort in my illness rather than causing me to say,why me?
I came to this though many years of soul searching and the readong of a book calledWhy bad things happen to good people ,by Rabbi Harold Kushner
This is not a *Jewish book*..He lost his son and as such asked some heard questions

 

[DisDuck]

If G-D is there to either intervene or has a 'plan'. Then someone has to explain 6 million dead in the holocaust to me.

For me, there is only Free Will. Humans make their own decisions. Nothing is planned for them. No fate.

 

[What the Heck]

I've never read it, but I've heard of that book Jenny. It's supposed to be excellent.

For me, I believe God went to a lot of trouble to establish the laws of the earth, gravity, things like that. I do believe he sometimes intervenes, not due to the amount or quality of the prayers of those who were asking, but due to something in His plans, and that is a miracle. I believe that for most things (like about 99% or so) we have free will. I believe God doesn't care if I have steak, fish or chicken for dinner, he cares that I get dinner. And as long as I am willing to work for it, I will get it.

I believe that bad things happen because for the most part it's a part of life. My wife didn't die because I was a bad person or because she was a bad person, she died because it was her time. We are set on this earth for a brief period and when it is our time there is nothing we can do to stop it. That doesn't mean that I can go play in the middle of the freeway, after all, what if I get hit and it isn't my time? Pain is necessary in life, misery is optional. Doing stupid things causes misery.

I believe that God hears and answers every prayer, and it is our right (for those that believe) to ask God for things. However, sometimes the answer is no. Or like in the old joke, a guy is talking to God and God is creating something. The guy asks God, how long is a million years to Him and God replies, a second. The guy asks God how much a million dollars is to Him and He replies a penny. The guy things, and gets a big grin and asks God "Can I have a penny?" and God answers "in a second". Sometimes, as much as I dno't like it, the answer is "in a second".

 

[JennyMominRI]

If G-D is there to either intervene or has a 'plan'. Then someone has to explain 6 million dead in the holocaust to me.

For me, there is only Free Will. Humans make their own decisions. Nothing is planned for them. No fate.

Dis Duck.I don't remember who said that..Maybe Eli Weisel..But whoever it was said to him."where was your G-d during the Holocaust and his reply was"where was man?"
I believe this...If G-d can intervene and doesnt,Than I'm not sure I want to worship him.. If G-d is there to hold out hand through the good and the bad,I'm all for him. Persoaally I believe that G-d was depply saddened by the holocause but puts the blame on those who did it , Not on himself, not on the devil, but on the human beings who perpetrated such action.s There was no great plan ,by G-d Involving the Holocaust. It happened because man has free will,and unfortunately, man sometimes does horrible things. Blame man not G-d

 

[JennyMominRI]

to me bad things happen because of free will. And things have to run its course. I feel God intervens as he feels is best, but not always in the way we feel is best or right. I feel, He is there for us to get us through it no matter what the out come is.
I have lost many dear people in my life to cancer. I have no idea why they had to die and others have survived. But I know that my faith and belief in God helped me deal and cope. And gave me a sense of peace and that I was never alone. I have come to my reasoning by both experience and what feels right for me. I don't believe that God is vengeful, mean or causes bad things to happen. To me he is love and cries right along with us when bad things happen.

Mom,Just wanted to say I'm sorry I used Miscarraige in my examples. I forgot you lost a child and would have left that out had I remembered. I'm fine using examples from my own life,not so fine using other peoples. Anyway,I'm sorry

 

[What the Heck]

I am of the belief that God did intervene. Think of how many different ways it could have been worse, how close the Nazi's were to winning WWII. They were:

- If radar wasn't invented, Britain would have lost
- If Hitler allows the destruction of the British Expeditionary Force at Dunkirk, Britain might have lost
- If Hitler allows his generals a little more free reign in Russia, Russia might have lost.
- If America had a different president, one who ruled by polls, Britain would probably have lost (no lend/lease, no leaning towards the British side)
- If Chamberlain had remained in power, he would have probably given in to Hitler when he made overtures for peace in 1940.

And there were many more. God gives us the opportunities, it is up to us to choose to do the right thing.

 

[DisDuck]

Jenny,
I knew you had an answer and it is one that I can agree with. It still supports my total belief in Free Will. In case you are interested this has been diversity week at RIC and my daughter has initiated a candle light vigil for tomorrow night due to some negative responses to her attempt to start a Jewish club on campus. Her posters have been torn down and graffitied.

The connection to this thread is 'if g-d had a plan' and intervenes instead of just being there for 'support' then what kind of plan allows for 'hate'?

 

[DisDuck]

And if g-d had intervened on Hitler's assasination(sic) attempt more Jews would be alive today. So was it in his plan's to only intervene a little and on the peripheral so that more Jews would die?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I believe that God is all powerful. He is indeed, God.

However, in our situation here on Earth, I believe that bad things happen because that is our current set of circumstances. Everybodys circumstance. ie: When Adam and Eve sinned, proving their inherant sin-nature, God did not say, "Repent, and ye shall live forever in the Garden of Eden." He said "Ye shall surely die".

edited to add: and that includes all of us. We all will die. Whether it be from old age, cancer, aids, or whatever. Everyone will die. (However, it is not the "Will of God that any man shall perish". We will all be given the opportunity to recieve the gift of eternal life.)

Of course, God is able to control any little thing that he so desires. But, it seems obvious that complete control at this time here on Earth is not in his divine plan. God's plan was not "The Garden of Eden" or Heaven on Earth, with nothing bad ever happening.

God says, "The rain (meaning prosperity and good fortune) falls on the just, and the unjust". The same holds true for the bad things in life.

Of course, in His own determination, God is free to bless individuals whom he deems worthy to fulfill his plan, as well as curse those whom he may deem worthy to fulfull his plan. Just read about 'Job'.

But, for now, as a whole, Judgement and Reward are reserved until that fateful day.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Pleas etake pity on me for my typos tonight..My arm and hand really hurts.

 

[DisDuck]

Except there are those of us who don't believe in original sin. So the 'rain' fell on 6 million unjust individuals? Nice plan 'he' had.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I believe all things happen for a reason. It may seem like the end of the world, but when all is said and done, it is usually a blessing.

I have had the most horrendous 2 years of my life. I lost 2 brother and my dad in a 15 month time frame. I never once blamed God. I blame the company my brother worked for, for putting him in a job without proper training or safety gear. He was a "sniffer" in a landfill that was being capped. His job was to drive the perimeter and "sniff" for hydrogen sulfide. He was found dead at work on Father's Day 2003. He was 45 years old. He died of Hydrogen sulfide poisoning. 5 months after we buried him, my 47 yo brother was told he has a brain tumor. he spent 27 years in a nuclear submarine for the Navy....no surprise there. He gave it a great battle, but died 10 months later. Sept. 2004. In the meantime, poor dad had all he could take, and he gave up the will to live when he came down with pnuemonia in Feb. 2004. His death was a God send. He did not have to live to see another child buried.

So many people have told me how angry they would be. Strangely, I am not angry. I think of other families who have gone through far worse than we have, and I count my blessings.

Everything bad that has happened in my life, has ended up turning into better. (except the deaths, of course) So, even when we may be facing my Dh being laid off, I am not worried. If it happens, it happens, and we could be better off next year, who knows.

 

[What the Heck]

And if g-d had intervened on Hitler's assasination(sic) attempt more Jews would be alive today. So was it in his plan's to only intervene a little and on the peripheral so that more Jews would die?

No, it is my belief that God intervenes through people.

Could He have intervened earlier and more definitivly? Yes, no doubt about it. However, then we would have lost all free will and faith, and that I believe is a very important part of His plan. After all, how much faith do you need that man will someday be able to fly? Since we see it everyday, the faith that it will happen is gone.

Off topic, but does anyone else think the smilies on the right are kinda distracting for a conversation as serious as this? I keep wanting to add in a or two.

 

[JennyMominRI]

No, it is my belief that God intervenes through people.

Could He have intervened earlier and more definitivly? Yes, no doubt about it. However, then we would have lost all free will and faith, and that I believe is a very important part of His plan. After all, how much faith do you need that man will someday be able to fly? Since we see it everyday, the faith that it will happen is gone.

Off topic, but does anyone else think the smilies on the right are kinda distracting for a conversation as serious as this? I keep wanting to add in a or two.

There is always a time and aplace for a dancing banana

 

[mickeyfan2]

So, do you think it's all due to free choice? Natural laws?

We all have free will. We do good and bad things due to free will. Weather is natural, but we can effect it.

Do you think God causes them?

No we chose to do bad things. Now hurricanes etc are just natural law.

Do you think God cannot stop them?

God does not stop nature, just intercedes in what people do (move before something hit them, for example)

Or, is this a current sticking point with you and God, and you really have no answer?

No sticking point here.

What is your basis for why you believe the way you do? I.E. because it's what you've been told......personal experience.....it just seems like the "right" answer.....etc

I would say personal experience along with my beliefs.