If you are in high school and get caught drinking...

[momof2inPA]

ALL of the popular kids drank when we were in school-- the cheerleaders, the football players, the basketball players, the wrestlers. NONE of them were ever kicked off a team for the season. A couple had suspensions for two games when the police picked them up and drove them home.

I guess if a school wants to enforce long-standing policies, that is their perogative, but if the community is serious about sports, the administrators might soon be looking for positions in different districts. IMO, the kids were dumb for thinking their facebook photos couldn't be looked at by anyone over 18, as if we're all blind and computer illiterate.

 

[smartestnumber5]

I was wondering about this pledge the students have to take--does it make the same exceptions the law does? I believe it is legal in Minnesota for an underage person to drink alcohol so long as they are in their parent's home with their parent's consent.

 

[golfgal]

ALL of the popular kids drank when we were in school-- the cheerleaders, the football players, the basketball players, the wrestlers. NONE of them were ever kicked off a team for the season. A couple had suspensions for two games when the police picked them up and drove them home.

I guess if a school wants to enforce long-standing policies, that is their perogative, but if the community is serious about sports, the administrators might soon be looking for positions in different districts. IMO, the kids were dumb for thinking their facebook photos couldn't be looked at by anyone over 18, as if we're all blind and computer illiterate.

Actually, this high school might find this happening, but maybe not. It is one of the top high schools in the state and the sports powerhouse. I think they won something like 8 state championships in various sports last year.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

The policy is interesting because it doesn't make any exceptions for religious observances. I engaged in underage drinking every Sunday from the time I was 11. But according to this school's policy, and other schools' policies, my consumption of communion wine would be grounds for suspension from my activities.

As for the guilt by association policies, they're completely outrageous. When I was a sophomore in high school, I was invited to join a community band. Our members ranged in age from 15 to 80. The band had two parties. Alcohol was served at both parties to anyone of age. Those of us who were under 21 didn't drink. Would attendance at either of these parties have resulted in our suspension from school activities? If so, that is completely ridiculous. What if your parents host a Christmas open house party with alcohol and a friend takes a picture of you holding your red cup and standing in front of the open wine, booze, and soda? Should the school suspend you from activities?

The school really needs to stick to disciplining students for behavior in school and during school activities.

 

[mamacatnv]

Some quotes from the article:

"The foursome, who are not involved in the controversy, said students are getting longer suspensions from activities -- up to five weeks -- if they appeared in multiple photos. The evidence in some cases was also dubious, they said, noting that pictures of students holding a red cup were enough to merit a call to the dean's office."

More pictures = more punishment
Holding a red cup = guilty

"Eden Prairie Principal Conn McCartan said the school wasn't trolling around students' Facebook pages. He said administrators were "presented" with the photos, but wouldn't say who provided them. "

"We do not go out looking at student social networking sites," McCartan said. In a statement, he said the school contacted the Minnesota State High School League and district lawyers for advice on how to proceed.

High School League spokesman Howard Voigt said the league requires students and their parents to sign a form agreeing to abstain from alcohol and other drugs while participating in a league-sanctioned activity. He said member schools such as Eden Prairie develop their own policies about the evidence they use to document suspected violations."

Here is where I am confused, the "league" what is that?
Is it the entire student body?
Is it just the extra-curricular governing organization?

Each individual school can develop it's own policy of policing? That is scary


"The proof could come from virtually any source,"

A picture of a kid holding a cup, how is that "Proof"??????

"The question is whether this is a good use of school resources," he said. "There are no simple answers to whether this is the proper function for the schools or should this be in the hands of parents and police."

Even the Principal is stating this is not a simple issue.

 

[mamacatnv]

Actually, this high school might find this happening, but maybe not. It is one of the top high schools in the state and the sports powerhouse. I think they won something like 8 state championships in various sports last year.

The "state sports powerhouse"......Hummmmm, I wonder if a rival school had anything to do with the photos that just happened to get turned into the administration.

It was a happy day for our HS football team when a big rival school had the majority of their starting line busted by the Sheriff for drinking at a party. Several of the players received MIP's(minors in possession) which made the guilty players ineligible for the next 2 games (If it was their first offense, the season if it was their second and their HS athletic career if it was their 3rd). Thus giving us the opportunity to take advantage of their weakness, beat them and take their playoff spot.

Now, the parents and the community screamed bloody murder but the Sheriff had breathalyzed them all, the ones sited with an MIP were guilty, there was no doubt, there was no association and the penalty stuck as it should!

Again, not excusing or condoning underage drinking but arguing the point that in Minnesota the school IMO, overstepped its bounds.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Just as a matter of interest if a family came over to the UK and an 18 year old was caught by the school with a picture of them drinking wine would they get suspended? Even though in my country the legal drinking age is 18?

 

[epfootballcutie04]

Some quotes from the article:

"The foursome, who are not involved in the controversy, said students are getting longer suspensions from activities -- up to five weeks -- if they appeared in multiple photos. The evidence in some cases was also dubious, they said, noting that pictures of students holding a red cup were enough to merit a call to the dean's office."

More pictures = more punishment
Holding a red cup = guilty

"Eden Prairie Principal Conn McCartan said the school wasn't trolling around students' Facebook pages. He said administrators were "presented" with the photos, but wouldn't say who provided them. "

"We do not go out looking at student social networking sites," McCartan said. In a statement, he said the school contacted the Minnesota State High School League and district lawyers for advice on how to proceed.

High School League spokesman Howard Voigt said the league requires students and their parents to sign a form agreeing to abstain from alcohol and other drugs while participating in a league-sanctioned activity. He said member schools such as Eden Prairie develop their own policies about the evidence they use to document suspected violations."

Here is where I am confused, the "league" what is that?
Is it the entire student body?
Is it just the extra-curricular governing organization?

Each individual school can develop it's own policy of policing? That is scary


"The proof could come from virtually any source,"

A picture of a kid holding a cup, how is that "Proof"??????

"The question is whether this is a good use of school resources," he said. "There are no simple answers to whether this is the proper function for the schools or should this be in the hands of parents and police."

Even the Principal is stating this is not a simple issue.

The high school league is meaning the minnesota state SPORTS high school league. ALL sports participants are MADE to sign a waiver stating a bunch of things... one of which is that they will NOT BY ANY MEANS be involved in ANY drinking and/or drugs activities. Shall students decide not to sign such waiver then they will NOT be allowed to play on the team. This is a state wide rule as minnesota has ZERO tollerance. .

I, again, state that I graduated from this very school in 2004. The school is, as another person posted, a HUGE powerhouse, which i believe is one of the reasons it's hit the media so much. (NOTE: I KNOW IT'S NOT THE MAIN REASON, so don't misunderstand me there!) Our sports teams our incredible. Our football team has won numeruos state championship
titles as well as the soccer teams, hockey teams, lacrosse teams, etc etc etc... we are top notch in academics, theater and music programs as well. President Bush came to our school when i was a sophomore and we just have a lot of good going for us at that school.

It WAS A STUDENT that brought in the facebook photos and presented them to school officials... not the school officials wasting their time and energy to rat out students. If something like this happens at this high school, it is the schools policy to investigate. The waiver that the students have to sign INCLUDES doing any previously mentioned activites OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY. Thus the reason that the school investigated.

Keep this in mind: They interviewed 42 students and only 13 of them got suspended from SPORTS related activites. I think a couple were members of student government and might have lost their titles there as well. the 13 students that got in trouble, ADMITTED TO THE SCHOOL OFFICIALS that they were INFACT drinking alcohol. Some of the other students questioned either made up stories or infact did not have alcohol in the glasses.

The student's that got 'punished' KNEW that they were in the wrong and ADMITTED TO IT.

there. i feel better now

I think we can all agree to not agree on this subject. Not everyone knows how each and every school works in regards to handling situations like this. In most cases it's a 'danged if ya do, and danged if ya don't' kind of situation.

 

[epfootballcutie04]

Just as a matter of interest if a family came over to the UK and an 18 year old was caught by the school with a picture of them drinking wine would they get suspended? Even though in my country the legal drinking age is 18?

yes they would. AS LONG AS... they were drinking in the time frame that they signed the contract stating that they would have nothing to do with alcohol or drugs... it does not matter to the school if they are of legal age ro not. It simply states no alcohol or drugs period. (and it's only suspension from extra curiculars, not from school itself). good question though.

 

[golfgal]

The high school league is meaning the minnesota state SPORTS high school league. ALL sports participants are MADE to sign a waiver stating a bunch of things... one of which is that they will NOT BY ANY MEANS be involved in ANY drinking and/or drugs activities. Shall students decide not to sign such waiver then they will NOT be allowed to play on the team. This is a state wide rule as minnesota has ZERO tollerance. .

I, again, state that I graduated from this very school in 2004. The school is, as another person posted, a HUGE powerhouse, which i believe is one of the reasons it's hit the media so much. (NOTE: I KNOW IT'S NOT THE MAIN REASON, so don't misunderstand me there!) Our sports teams our incredible. Our football team has won numeruos state championship
titles as well as the soccer teams, hockey teams, lacrosse teams, etc etc etc... we are top notch in academics, theater and music programs as well. President Bush came to our school when i was a sophomore and we just have a lot of good going for us at that school.

It WAS A STUDENT that brought in the facebook photos and presented them to school officials... not the school officials wasting their time and energy to rat out students. If something like this happens at this high school, it is the schools policy to investigate. The waiver that the students have to sign INCLUDES doing any previously mentioned activites OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY. Thus the reason that the school investigated.

Keep this in mind: They interviewed 42 students and only 13 of them got suspended from SPORTS related activites. I think a couple were members of student government and might have lost their titles there as well. the 13 students that got in trouble, ADMITTED TO THE SCHOOL OFFICIALS that they were INFACT drinking alcohol. Some of the other students questioned either made up stories or infact did not have alcohol in the glasses.

The student's that got 'punished' KNEW that they were in the wrong and ADMITTED TO IT.

there. i feel better now

I think we can all agree to not agree on this subject. Not everyone knows how each and every school works in regards to handling situations like this. In most cases it's a 'danged if ya do, and danged if ya don't' kind of situation.

It is not just sports, speech, drama, debate, choir, band, etc. are all sanctioned under the state high school league rules. Any competition that involves a state tournament of any kind falls under these rules.

 

[swilphil]

Just as a matter of interest if a family came over to the UK and an 18 year old was caught by the school with a picture of them drinking wine would they get suspended? Even though in my country the legal drinking age is 18?

If they were part of a school group, yes they would. When students go on a school-sponsored trip, they and their parents sign forms that they will follow school rules, including no drinking. Also if the student was involved in a sport or activity that falls under the state's athletics/activities association, they would be kicked off the team. If they were just on a family vacation, they might not be suspended from school, but it would depend on the school.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Did you miss the point where the kids SIGNED a waiver stating they would not drink AT ALL, ANYWHERE that is STATE OF MINNESOTA POLICY for all students that participate in ANY ACTIVITY. The schools were enforcing state policy, as they are directed to do. It doesn't matter if there were police involved or not. If another parent reports that they caught whatever kids at their house drinking the school can suspend them from activities too. They will investigate but they can get suspended from sports for anyone reporting them if the reports are found to be true.

It doesn't matter if the kids signed a piece of paper. That doesn't give the school any authority at all. Contracts involving minors are enforceable solely at the option of the minor. That means that the kids can hold the school to the school's end of it, but the school cannot hold the kids to their end.

Nobody can do anything to a minor and then say, "But he said it was okay! See?!"

If the schools think that the kids' say so gives them the go-ahead, they are wildly mistaken.

 

[jrmasm]

Did you miss the point where the kids SIGNED a waiver stating they would not drink AT ALL, ANYWHERE that is STATE OF MINNESOTA POLICY for all students that participate in ANY ACTIVITY. The schools were enforcing state policy, as they are directed to do. It doesn't matter if there were police involved or not. If another parent reports that they caught whatever kids at their house drinking the school can suspend them from activities too. They will investigate but they can get suspended from sports for anyone reporting them if the reports are found to be true.

Did you miss the point that I don't think they should be required to sign a waiver that deals with their behavior WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON SCHOOLS GROUNDS OR AT A SCHOOL ACTIVITY????

Quite frankly, the fact that it is a state law is even more ridiculous to me than if it were simply an individual school policy.

 

[golfgal]

It doesn't matter if the kids signed a piece of paper. That doesn't give the school any authority at all. Contracts involving minors are enforceable solely at the option of the minor. That means that the kids can hold the school to the school's end of it, but the school cannot hold the kids to their end.

Nobody can do anything to a minor and then say, "But he said it was okay! See?!"

If the schools think that the kids' say so gives them the go-ahead, they are wildly mistaken.

The parents sign it too--again--the ENTIRE STATE has this exact same thing. The kids were suspended from their activities by the rules of the governing body OF THOSE ACTIVITIES plain and simple.

 

[epfootballcutie04]

i'm just like...

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

Whoa, back up the bus and read this thread thoroughly

Not sure how you got all of my quotes attributed to castleview, but I digress....

BEEP BEEP BEEP... **backing up the bus**

So, if a fellow teen showed up on your doorstep with a cd with pictures of your teenager holding a red cup it is my understanding from your post that all heck would break loose towards your teens.....................

No I would use my brain and my investigative skills to find out what was going on and act accordingly. Isn't that what parents are supposed to do??? If my kids are holding a red cup why would all heck break loose?

I agree that parents don't always enforce rules but that does not then make parenting and law enforcement the job of the public school system.

Then tell me, please, who is responsible for that job that the parents refuse to do? The job of raising their children??

 

[golfgal]

Did you miss the point that I don't think they should be required to sign a waiver that deals with their behavior WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON SCHOOLS GROUNDS OR AT A SCHOOL ACTIVITY????

Quite frankly, the fact that it is a state law is even more ridiculous to me than if it were simply an individual school policy.

Ok, you are 14 years old, go ahead, get drunk, do drugs, do what ever you want, just not on school property and everything will be ok.

Sorry, it is a code of conduct that EVERY student involved in activities in the state of MN signs for the PRIVILEGE of participating in whatever activity. The point is they signed it, they agreed to the terms and they broke the terms of the code of conduct and were subsequently punished. This has been in force in MN for over 30 years, it isn't like it was just sprung on these kids last week.

 

[castleview]

Well, here comes my inner fascism, I guess:

When I was about 15, I participated in a walkout (over something very stupid that I can't remember) in high school. After getting a weeks worth of detentions from school, my parents grounded me for MUCH longer.

I tried to tell mom and dad about how someone at school was given too harsh a punishment by the school and that the school had no right to do that and the student's rights were violated. Mom and dad who were teachers (what was I thinking? ) simply said: "You're 15 not 18, you have no rights and HIGH SCHOOL IS NOT A DEMOCRACY."

Some parents are probably going to flame mom and dads' opinion, but I plan on following with my own kids.

 

[golfgal]

Well, here comes my inner fascism, I guess:

When I was about 15, I participated in a walkout (over something very stupid that I can't remember) in high school. After getting a weeks worth of detentions from school, my parents grounded me for MUCH longer.

I tried to tell mom and dad about how someone at school was given too harsh a punishment by the school and that the school had no right to do that and the student's rights were violated. Mom and dad who were teachers (what was I thinking? ) simply said: "You're 15 not 18, you have no rights and HIGH SCHOOL IS NOT A DEMOCRACY."

Some parents are probably going to flame mom and dads' opinion, but I plan on following with my own kids.

What school or business is a democracy--NONE. Even if you are 45 a school or business isn't a democracy. Do you get to take a vote to see who gets hired/fired/promoted, etc. , no. You accept rules when you are hired--many, many, many companies have a code of conduct that employees sign and those deal with things off the job too. If you violate the code of conduct, you get fired--just like these kids got 'fired' from their sports teams.

 

[PaulaSB12]

yes they would. AS LONG AS... they were drinking in the time frame that they signed the contract stating that they would have nothing to do with alcohol or drugs... it does not matter to the school if they are of legal age ro not. It simply states no alcohol or drugs period. (and it's only suspension from extra curiculars, not from school itself). good question though.

In that case its got to be the most stupid rule out. Why would you ban someone for doing something legal in another country?