If points are $106 then a 10 point room is....

[Sandisw]

There's one more factor to consider... while it's not financial, I still feel it's important... emotional.

I crunched the numbers every way I could, then finally I asked myself, "Do you want to own a little piece of Disney?"

The answer was "Yes!" It makes me happy to own this. I can't say that about most things that I own.

We look forward to the trips as a family and it gives us something we can all relate to (for now, at least). We have taken the grandparents and the cousins with us on trips, that would not have happened with cash vacations.

I still think it was a good decision financially to own DVC, for us at least. This also makes me happy. And it has been amazing how many deals on travel I have been able to get now that I have a consistent destination in mind. I don't find we have "saved" a lot of money at the end of the day, but taken many more trips, in really nice accommodations, for the same money we had previously spent on much fewer, less satisfying locations.

I also expect the value to grow as time passes and cash prices also go up. I'm thinking the 10 year mark will really make me glad we did it.

Just my 2 cents.

Great points and just the line of thinking that I took when we bought last month. We go to Disney almost every year and I love it!!! I am also fortunate to have vacation dollars built into my household budget that are solely for the purpose of vacation and fun.

When I analyzed the costs of DVC vs. continuing to pay out of pocket, I used those vacation dollars as my guide. The cost of owning DVC for the year--MF, monthly payments, tickets, food, and airfare--was less then what I currently put away for vacations, so I knew it was a good deal for me!

Now that I own, I am even more excited about my WDW trips!! I can't wait to go home in August!!!!

 

[nunzia]

I try not to overthink this..actually..I could look at it this way..I bought my OKW using a stock sell before the market crashed..therefore..that stock is now worth much less so if I had left it in the market instead of buying OKW I'd have less, so buying OKW saved me money As far as OP post, if you know where you can get 8% return, I'd love to know where as I'm lucky to be hitting 2%.
Seriously..what I am doing is writing down everything I spend (purchase, MF) and then writing down what the same trip would cost with cash and subtracting it from what I've spent. I'm using the rates on the Disney site and this may not be totally accurate if you factor in deals, discounts, etc. But I'm also not factoring in the amount of money I save using my member discounts and the like. I'm just trying to get a feel for the general time I break even, not have a penny by oenny spreadsheet.
How much is nightly tax on Disney properties and daily resort fees? Anyone know?

 

[Anal Annie]

So in the end is DVC really a deal? Do you pay everything upfront or make payments?

You are talking to DVC addicts here so most of the answers will be yes!

I'm not a financial minded person by any means and I can be a little dippy sometimes but I rationalize things my own way. Dean says not to look at the "rack rate" but I do, I just keep in mind that I would probably never actually PAY that rate - I would always look for a deal of some sort of % off of it - maybe 10% off. But there are some people who WOULD pay it.

Anyway, we purchased 2 years ago and have done several trips now with our membership. We have utilized our membership by staying solely on points, have bought AP's with the member discount, have stayed a few nights on cash using the DVC discount and have taken a 4 n cruise (tho probably won't cruise on points again). We currently have a total of 14 nights booked in studios for this year over 2 trips and we still have 25 points left to bank. OK so (in MY MIND) before any discounts that may or may not have been available thru CRO, our 14 nights this year would've cost $4,245 based on the rack rates. Our annual dues are approx. $1,100 / year so that's leaving $3,145 in my pocket this year.

YES, there was the upfront purchase price ($21,500 for us), but we figure if we're saving approx. this much cash every year that we will recover our purchase price in less than 7 years and all of our trips after that for the life of our membership will be gravy. ($21,500 divided by $3,145 = 6.8 yrs.) This is just a rough estimate and I know there are other variables involved and that this isn't a precise way to figure it out but I think it's a way to ballpark the value of the purchase (and it works just fine in MY MIND) . We could actually recover our initial purchase price a little sooner, depending on the different ways we use it as far as unit size, # of nights we go and the season we use it. But I do belive it when they say the average length of ownership time to recover your initial investment is about 7 years and this is how I get to that number for us.

 

[Anal Annie]

I try not to overthink this..actually..I could look at it this way..I bought my OKW using a stock sell before the market crashed..therefore..that stock is now worth much less so if I had left it in the market instead of buying OKW I'd have less, so buying OKW saved me money As far as OP post, if you know where you can get 8% return, I'd love to know where as I'm lucky to be hitting 2%.
Seriously..what I am doing is writing down everything I spend (purchase, MF) and then writing down what the same trip would cost with cash and subtracting it from what I've spent. I'm using the rates on the Disney site and this may not be totally accurate if you factor in deals, discounts, etc. But I'm also not factoring in the amount of money I save using my member discounts and the like. I'm just trying to get a feel for the general time I break even, not have a penny by oenny spreadsheet.
How much is nightly tax on Disney properties and daily resort fees? Anyone know?

I think the hotel tax in FL is about 12%.

 

[booger73]

You are talking to DVC addicts here so most of the answers will be yes!

Anyway, we purchased 2 years ago and have done several trips now with our membership. We have utilized our membership by staying solely on points, have bought AP's with the member discount, have stayed a few nights on cash using the DVC discount and have taken a 4 n cruise (tho probably won't cruise on points again). We currently have a total of 14 nights booked in studios for this year over 2 trips and we still have 25 points left to bank. OK so (in MY MIND) before any discounts that may or may not have been available thru CRO, our 14 nights this year would've cost $4,245 based on the rack rates. Our annual dues are approx. $1,100 / year so that's leaving $3,145 in my pocket this year.

Of course now, you have to consider you probably will go to Disney more now that you actually 'own' DVC - i.e. more annual pass, food, expenses, airfare.. than you would have if you "didn't own"..

 

[Anal Annie]

Of course now, you have to consider you probably will go to Disney more now that you actually 'own' DVC - i.e. more annual pass, food, expenses, airfare.. than you would have if you "didn't own"..

Especially on the years that we purchase AP's...yes, it does lead to more trips to WDW!! However, if we were'nt going THERE we'd be going somewhere else...so still blowing a wad somewhere. I used to work at a place that owned a couple of beach properties for rent to it's employees at a discount (a condo in OC, MD and a house in Bethany Beach, DE). So we used to be able to take 1 "cheap" local vacation and plan 1 other "destination" vacation every year. Once that "cheap" option disappeared for us we didn't feel like the going rate in OC was something we wanted to spend our money on so we started planning more trips to FL etc. So I still look at it that we'd be spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $3-5,000 / year on vacations depending on where we went and they would all be out-of-pocket.

We are going to try Vero Beach for a few nights this year to see if we'd like to plan a beach week there sometime & skip WDW one time (at least the water s/b warm unlike OC). On another programming note, we go to Hawaii about once every 5 years so we're looking forward to the idea of the Ko'Olina resort. By going every 5 years it gives us plenty of time to save up for reward flights so that's helpful. It's not going to be on our favorite island and we're not sure if it will be too point intensive for us or not...but anxious to find out more details - in theory it should really make our trips a lot more affordable!! Since we have been to Hawaii several times, we know the cash expense involved for comparision...so again, DVC may come thru as a big cash saver for us and a trip like that would REALLY knock down a lot off of our initial investment price!

 

[OneMoreTry]

Many of us have already recouped our buy in considering value of vacations used , even when accounting for annual dues. And Dean, considering a "future value of money" at 5-7% annually (even though it has turned out to be lower than that over the past 10 years), I think I've still recouped .

It's one purchase I never regretted, but keep in mind I'm big on vacations.

 

[Dean]

And Dean, considering a "future value of money" at 5-7% annually (even though it has turned out to be lower than that over the past 10 years), I think I've still recouped .

I doubt that's really true if you look at dollars alone. The question is what would you have spent without DVC vs what you have spend with DVC. As I noted earlier, using DVC rack rates as the basis for a comparison is a fools game. The ONLY people that are likely to recoup in under 10 years are those for a studio (or 2 BR if they'd have done 2 rooms otherwise), routinely stayed on property for mostly deluxe, minimized weekends and never used cash equivalent exchanges. There is a subgroup that will spend more money than they would have spent if they paid cash and stayed in the same DVC units, esp those who do mostly weekends and use the cash equivalent exchange options routinely such as DCL and CC. Certainly this situation will change to a degree with the points reallocation. One of the biggest risk with any timeshare is the future uncertainty and that's likely MORE true with DVC than most.

 

[crisi]

The answer is it depends. In large part it's a gamble on what maint fees and cash prices will do over time. For some, it's a very good gamble, for others,not so much so. And for some it's actually more expensive than if they paid cash.

For us, its DEFINITELY been more expensive. Had we not purchased DVC we wouldn't go to Disney as often. We certainly wouldn't have treated friends and family to rooms. We'd stay either in a Disney Deluxe Studio - or maybe a moderate studio - or now that business trips to Orlando have broken me of being an onsite snob (not for the room quality, but for the convenience) offsite.

Instead of a single hotel room, we stay in one bedrooms.

Instead of skipping a vacation - or doing a 'staycation,' we take a trip to Disney.

Instead of taking our immediately family, we've brought guests for numerous trips - paying for their room (and sometimes their airfare and park tickets and food).

Instead of a trip hitting our credit card and cash flow nearly all at once - our cash flow was moved to a large upfront purchase - this gives us the 'illusion' of smaller costs while we are taking our trip - with no hotel bill and dues long paid, we spend more on dining out, seeing Cirque, etc., than we would be likely to do if we had all our costs in the month of travel.

And - if posts here are any indication - I don't think we are atypical in any of these things. Frugal DVCers (at least around here) who use the program in a way that would actually save them money are the exception, not the rule.

Its a more effective way for Disney to take money from my pocket - I think the value trade has been worth it - I really like having my kids sleep in a separate room, and I loved being able to vacation with my parents and sister and nephews - but for us, its a joke to think we've saved money.

 

[Anal Annie]

For us, its DEFINITELY been more expensive. Had we not purchased DVC we wouldn't go to Disney as often. We certainly wouldn't have treated friends and family to rooms. We'd stay either in a Disney Deluxe Studio - or maybe a moderate studio - or now that business trips to Orlando have broken me of being an onsite snob (not for the room quality, but for the convenience) offsite.

Instead of a single hotel room, we stay in one bedrooms.

Instead of skipping a vacation - or doing a 'staycation,' we take a trip to Disney.

Instead of taking our immediately family, we've brought guests for numerous trips - paying for their room (and sometimes their airfare and park tickets and food).

Instead of a trip hitting our credit card and cash flow nearly all at once - our cash flow was moved to a large upfront purchase - this gives us the 'illusion' of smaller costs while we are taking our trip - with no hotel bill and dues long paid, we spend more on dining out, seeing Cirque, etc., than we would be likely to do if we had all our costs in the month of travel.

And - if posts here are any indication - I don't think we are atypical in any of these things. Frugal DVCers (at least around here) who use the program in a way that would actually save them money are the exception, not the rule.

Its a more effective way for Disney to take money from my pocket - I think the value trade has been worth it - I really like having my kids sleep in a separate room, and I loved being able to vacation with my parents and sister and nephews - but for us, its a joke to think we've saved money.

But I think this would be true of owning any timeshare, not just DVC. Timeshares were designed to make the annual vacation easier to do every year.

Personally, we are people who would take a couple of trips a year, dropping anywhere between $3-5K anyway. So I will not blame Disney for making my vacations more expensive....the dollars we spend are just more concentrated in one place rather than scattered all about. I would still eat out on vacation and I would still spend money on some sort of excursions or something (ex - in Hawaii we snorkel and take pricey helicopter tours etc.). So whatever we spend on AP's is a wash and is used over & over again so it's actually a pretty good value in retrospect. Actually, it's probably less money spent. Plus, say if we're in Hawaii we'd probably spend more on dining out than we do at WDW bcuz we only do 2-3 TS meals in a weeks time rather than EVERY nite. So I don't know that I'd say owning DVC makes us spend more. We just spend it all in one spot. DVC is at least saving on our lodging expenses. Doncha think?

 

[Dean]

But I think this would be true of owning any timeshare, not just DVC. Timeshares were designed to make the annual vacation easier to do every year.

Personally, we are people who would take a couple of trips a year, dropping anywhere between $3-5K anyway. So I will not blame Disney for making my vacations more expensive....the dollars we spend are just more concentrated in one place rather than scattered all about. I would still eat out on vacation and I would still spend money on some sort of excursions or something (ex - in Hawaii we snorkel and take pricey helicopter tours etc.). So whatever we spend on AP's is a wash and is used over & over again so it's actually a pretty good value in retrospect. Actually, it's probably less money spent. Plus, say if we're in Hawaii we'd probably spend more on dining out than we do at WDW bcuz we only do 2-3 TS meals in a weeks time rather than EVERY nite. So I don't know that I'd say owning DVC makes us spend more. We just spend it all in one spot. DVC is at least saving on our lodging expenses. Doncha think?

Timeshares tend to force vacations which can be a good thing. Prior to my foray into DVC then other timeshares, I rarely took a real vacation. About the most I'd do would be a few extra days on a professional meeting and trip to see family at the holidays, maybe a week a year total. Still, DVC does so more than most because it draws you to a place that is a master at taking your money. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it seems some can't even think of the cost of such an ownership, only the emotions that go with it, to heck with the cost. Their choice of course but when they try to convince themselves and others that it really was a good deal, that's when things tend to go wrong.

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC does so more than most because it draws you to a place that is a master at taking your money.

One of the ways I describe Walt Disney World is: "Imagine a place that, when you arrive, picks you up by your ankles, shakes you until every last penny falls out, and then sends you on your way back home, broke but feeling lucky to have had the privilege."

 

[Golden Rose]

We're a family that regularly did get either two bedrooms or a suite; we enjoy doing trips that include my DM, and, most recently, her DF. We really need at least two bathrooms between us, and we like having two seperate bedrooms. We love Club level, and have used it regularly since Disney started offering it. We put up with the loss of Club level because we can easily keep and prepare so much real food in the villas. We have always stayed at Deluxes in my adult life, although we always tried to find some sort of deal. Still, we always seemed to end up spending _at least_ $600 a night.
We took big trips somewhere every year, although admittedly not always WDW. Once DS got to be about 2.5, we started doing WDW about every 9 months.

We were basically ideal DVC candidates. We are definitely saving money with DVC, but even so, I think it will take us at least 7 or 8 years to really break even.

I will say, we're really enjoying some of the perks. We loved saving the money on the annual passes (it made it worth it for us to get the AP), the TiW card we decided to get after getting the APs paid for itself in one meal at V & A's, and my DM and her DF played golf almost every day with her DVC golf membership. We'd have eaten at the exact same restaurants without the TiW card, they'd have played the same rounds of golf without the DVC discount, and we'd have paid for daily internet without the free internet for DVC members. Being DVC members probably saved us $700+ in perks on our January trip. I didn't figure these into our break even analysis, but it makes me pretty comfortable about using rack rate as a comparison when explaining our savings to friends.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I doubt that's really true if you look at dollars alone. The question is what would you have spent without DVC vs what you have spend with DVC. As I noted earlier, using DVC rack rates as the basis for a comparison is a fools game. The ONLY people that are likely to recoup in under 10 years are those for a studio (or 2 BR if they'd have done 2 rooms otherwise), r....

With 7 in the family, we HAVE TO HAVE A 2BR. Which is where we've stayed every time -- even before we bought in (have you checked out the cash price?). Comparing points to rack rates, and almost always staying sun to thurs, we broke even at about 6 years .(not taking into account "future value.") Keep in mind we paid $61 or $62pp and almost always stay at OKW. We are getting close to the 10 year mark and I can't prove it, but I honestly believe we've recouped.

Now, if we had RENTED points year-to-year from members at $10 pp, we may have come out ahead of where we are, but I wouldn't want to do that.

In case you wondered, we didn't buy in earlier because we weren't visiting often and had no plans to increase frequency for a number of years.

 

[OneMoreTry]

One of the ways I describe Walt Disney World is: "Imagine a place that, when you arrive, picks you up by your ankles, shakes you until every last penny falls out, and then sends you on your way back home, broke but feeling lucky to have had the privilege."

I always hear a great sucking sound when I pass under the WDW sign that doesn't end till I leave.

As for forcing vacations, it'd be pretty hard to get me to vacation more than I do, which has always be a lot. Most of our vacations are NOT to WDW. I've been to CO 5 times in the past year, which is my favorite. but as I get older and lazier basking by the pool in the Florida sun gets better every year. I'm hoping to buy enough points by the time I retire to be able to spend 2 mos at OKW every Jan-Feb.

 

[Dean]

With 7 in the family, we HAVE TO HAVE A 2BR. Which is where we've stayed every time -- even before we bought in (have you checked out the cash price?). Comparing points to rack rates, and almost always staying sun to thurs, we broke even at about 6 years .(not taking into account "future value.") Keep in mind we paid $61 or $62pp and almost always stay at OKW. We are getting close to the 10 year mark and I can't prove it, but I honestly believe we've recouped.

Now, if we had RENTED points year-to-year from members at $10 pp, we may have come out ahead of where we are, but I wouldn't want to do that.

In case you wondered, we didn't buy in earlier because we weren't visiting often and had no plans to increase frequency for a number of years.

Most are overly optimistic on the break even point. I'd venture the only ones under 10 years were those that got free passes or those that almost completely avoid weekends and never exchange out. Unless you're going times that Disney never discounts, using the rack rate is a false comparison.

 

[alice99]

I believe many people are off the mark when they believe they have broken even in 6 years.

We took the Disney Financing (10.75% ) and when I looked at the payments online they were broken down separating principle and interest. Principle paid was $140. .... interest paid was $260.

I could go on vacation on the interest ALONE, without the investment of DVC.
I am a FIRM believer that this is a purchase that should NOT be financed. Any savings is rendered null and void by the ridiculous interest rates.

And- I haven't paid a penny of maintenance fees yet in this equation.

My point is , if you have financed this purchase you are most definitely saving nothing.

PS - My loan is going to be paid off by the end of April,so I will be paying interest for only 3 months. Yes, it seems that I am caught in this financing disaster, but not really the case.

 

[CUL8R]

Hello Carl Aird,

Well, as you see, there are many different answers regarding the value part of your question, and I'm going to give you another perspective altogether.

What I've learned about buying and using your DVC points is that there are people who are going to explain value to you based on what they actually pay/paid for their points. Then there are those who will explain value to you based on the "value" of your points (what you might get for them in the rental market, assuming you'll even be able to rent them out, and other prospective measures).

What I'm going to tell you is that this is a personal choice. There's always going to be someone out there telling you you're doing it wrong and they'll give you a bunch of numbers to prove their point. It boils down to what do YOU want and how do YOU want to spend YOUR money. Then if you buy in, how do you want to spend your points.

I won't attempt to tell you when you'll break even, but I will tell you that you will break even...when you're talking a span of 50 years I really don't think a 3-7 year variation makes that much difference.

Next, I'll tell you to ask yourself why you want DVC. Is it for the personal gratification of you and/or your family or is it to make money and play the who-can-get/keep-the-most-money game with Disney? Because if you're going to always try to one-up Disney, you'll lose the enjoyment of owning DVC.

I'll also tell you that if you crunch your numbers and figure out what you ACTUALLY spend for your DVC points and what you'd ACTUALLY spend for a cruise, there are times when using your DVC points will either be a wash or a better deal (even with the $95 additional charge).

The point is, it's your money and your points. If you obtain personal satisfaction owning DVC and utilizing your points in one/any/all of the options available, then do it. But if you're thinking of buying in to "beat" Disney (so to speak) then I wouldn't bother because you'll either be miserable yourself, or make others be miserable with continuous number crunching and a need to be right.

Remember the combined words in Analysis are Anal and Lysis. Anal = of, part of or pertaining to the anus and Lysis is the disintegration or destruction of...

 

[Dean]

I won't attempt to tell you when you'll break even, but I will tell you that you will break even...when you're talking a span of 50 years I really don't think a 3-7 year variation makes that much difference.

This is exactly the point, there is a fair subset of membership that will NEVER break even. Beyond that, a timeshare is simply too high of a gamble to hope to break even in 40-50 years. If you can't break even in 20 years or less considering the time value of money, what you'd actually spend if you didn't buy, interest paid if any; it is foolish to buy in. The increased luxury, kitchen savings if any, members perks and the like need to be gravy and not an integral part of one's calculations. Certainly anyone can make foolish choices if they want, no argument there.

 

[crisi]

With 7 in the family, we HAVE TO HAVE A 2BR. Which is where we've stayed every time -- even before we bought in (have you checked out the cash price?). Comparing points to rack rates, and almost always staying sun to thurs, we broke even at about 6 years .(not taking into account "future value.") Keep in mind we paid $61 or $62pp and almost always stay at OKW. We are getting close to the 10 year mark and I can't prove it, but I honestly believe we've recouped.

Now, if we had RENTED points year-to-year from members at $10 pp, we may have come out ahead of where we are, but I wouldn't want to do that.

In case you wondered, we didn't buy in earlier because we weren't visiting often and had no plans to increase frequency for a number of years.

Well, you could have done a number of other scenarios - you could have counted on getting connecting rooms at a moderate. You could have bought an offsite timeshare or rented a house offsite. You could have done the Ft. Wilderness cabins. Most of those options would have likely turned out cheaper than DVC

Which isn't to say DVC isn't a good value for you - just if you are looking for cheap ways to vacation at Disney, DVC is never really it.

But then, vacations are by definition luxury items - so you are pretty much determining you are going to spend on a non-essential. If we all wanted to maximize our cash, we would be taking Disney trips to start with - regardless of if its a suite at the Grand Floridian or a campground in Kissemee. We've decided to vacation at Disney, and for many DVC owners, DVC makes a lot of sense. In the end, if you are happy with it, and you can afford it, then you are getting value out of it.