If points are $106 then a 10 point room is....

One of the ways I describe Walt Disney World is: "Imagine a place that, when you arrive, picks you up by your ankles, shakes you until every last penny falls out, and then sends you on your way back home, broke but feeling lucky to have had the privilege."

THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL!
I think youre joking!?
Its the cheapest of ALL the amusement parts basically (to eat inside)
Tickets can be expensive but you can get them cheaper if you think and search
You can have a good time
spend what you need to
without having to spend tons of money there!!
If you feel that way then why even go??
Its just spoils everything
 
THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL!
I think youre joking!?
Its the cheapest of ALL the amusement parts basically (to eat inside)
Tickets can be expensive but you can get them cheaper if you think and search
You can have a good time
spend what you need to
without having to spend tons of money there!!
If you feel that way then why even go??
Its just spoils everything
I'm sure Brian is exaggerating to make the point but the point is very valid. WDW is a very expensive place to visit. Sure there are ways to reduce costs somewhat but not that much unless you stay off property. Admission options are a dramatic expense as are on property lodging choices. I also wouldn't say that it's cheap to eat at Disney and I feel the DDP often increases that expense substantially. I would say you definitely have proven Brian's point about people being happy to spend the money. I have taken a family of 4 to HI and Puerto Vallarta with air as cheaply as a comparable trip to WDW would be from 4 hours away.
 
THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL!
I think youre joking!?
Its the cheapest of ALL the amusement parts basically (to eat inside)
Tickets can be expensive but you can get them cheaper if you think and search
You can have a good time
spend what you need to
without having to spend tons of money there!!
If you feel that way then why even go??
Its just spoils everything

Really?, watching it is the thing I enjoy most about going. I'm a logistics geek - and watching Disney function as a business is fascinating to me. Its more fun watching how Disney can get 40 little girls parents to pay $200 for playing dress up each hour than it is to go on Space Mountain.
 
Really?, watching it is the thing I enjoy most about going. I'm a logistics geek - and watching Disney function as a business is fascinating to me. Its more fun watching how Disney can get 40 little girls parents to pay $200 for playing dress up each hour than it is to go on Space Mountain.

Yes, and I for one am amazed at how much they will spend to do that! For sure iti's more than I spend on getting my hair done!
 

Yes, and I for one am amazed at how much they will spend to do that! For sure iti's more than I spend on getting my hair done!

I admit that we did it last trip with my daughter - she will quickly not be a little girl any longer. It was a 'special' thing - and between the dress up and the dress and the attention and the memories - and the fact that I'd gotten a huge bonus right before traveling that I certainly wasn't expecting - it was worth it.

But it sure wasn't inexpensive - nor was it even the least expensive method of getting her dressed up.
 
Breakeven for each person is different. Here is my "back of the envelope" analysis for my situation.........your mileage may vary.

Usually go one holiday (week before T-day or week before Christmas), alternating each year to make max use of AP's. Take a couple of other weekend type trips (3-5 days) as getaways. Family of four. I have 350 points. On my holiday trip, 2 bedrooms are about $700 per night. Some locations are closer to $1,000 and there have not been too many discounts (there may be in the future however). I'll use an average of $5 per point for maintenance fees.

Cost of 7 nights at holiday (2 bdr)= 7 x $700 = $4900
Tax = 4900 x 12% = $588

Cost of non holiday nights (1bdr) = 5 x $400 =$2000
Tax = 2000 x 12% = $240

Maintenance fee cost on 350 points = $1,750
Less taxes saved = -$828
Less AP savings 4x $100 = $400 (I am aware this could go away and some won't use it in their analysis).

As you can see, tax and AP savings bring me within $520 of annual breakeven of ongoing expenses. Before becoming a DVC member we would eat breakfast at various WDW restaurants. Average bill for four was about $30-40. $40 x 12 mornings = $480. We eat breakfast in the room (I know some won't want to do that) and the cost is under $100. Just eating at breakfast at the unit gets me close to breakeven.

Amortizing my purchase price is as follows. I bought AKV from Dis for about 94 per point and received 5 nights (developer points at SSR) 2bedr at XMas. Room cost for that ressie would have been $700 per night. I bought 200 points, so cost was about 19,000.

Bought 150 BWV resale for $80 per point and received 150 banked points, cost = 12,500 (clsoing costs included).

I have $31,000 into purchase cost (no small sum).

My developer points saved me $700 x 5 nights = $3,500 (yes I was going then anyway).

Banked points on BWV (if rented at $10) got me $1,500 (MF's were paid by seller). My cost to purchase is now $31-$5 = 26k. As stated above, taxes, AP savings and breakfast save me more the cost of my annual MF's, so now I need to amortize the purchase price. At $6,900 per year, my 26k get's eaten up pretty quickly.

The point I am making here is that DVC actually alters they way my family USES WDW. We eat dinner in probably half the time. Not because we have to, but because we want to. When we stayed in WDW hotel rooms, we never did that. The food cost savings are enormous when dinner is factored in. If you would never do this, then leave it out of your analysis, but for us, it probably saves another $700 per year .

I'm sure some will challenge the math and probably rightly so. But remember, if I did this for 5 years and sold, I will recoup some of my initial outlay. How much is open to argument, but even if I got 40% of purchase price, I would be way ahead. Also, I know that I could do it offsite cheaper, but for me that is not a comparison I am interested in. For the most part, I want to stay on onsite.
 
The point I am making here is that DVC actually alters they way my family USES WDW. We eat dinner in probably half the time. Not because we have to, but because we want to. When we stayed in WDW hotel rooms, we never did that. The food cost savings are enormous when dinner is factored in. If you would never do this, then leave it out of your analysis, but for us, it probably saves another $700 per year .

I'm sure some will challenge the math and probably rightly so. But remember, if I did this for 5 years and sold, I will recoup some of my initial outlay. How much is open to argument, but even if I got 40% of purchase price, I would be way ahead. Also, I know that I could do it offsite cheaper, but for me that is not a comparison I am interested in. For the most part, I want to stay on onsite.
A couple of points. Not only does DVC alter how you travel but how much you travel to WDW in many cases. Also, 350 points won't get you the trips you stated (7 nights in a 2 BR and 5 nights in a 1 BR long weekends), you're closer to 600 or more depending on the resort in question and specific dates. And as I noted earlier, using the rack rate of the destination options is fools game. From a $$$ standpoint you should use what you would get if you were paying cash both in terms of costs and discounts. Certainly DVC can give you a controlled cost to get such a luxury and there are hidden savings (and costs) such as potential dining savings.

In your case with a family of four you could likely save money if you'd stay on property anyway in deluxe and compared to studios but you're not and a lot of others are in the same situation. Or you could come out about even compared to moderates and have better for around the same cost. Just another example of how Disney and DVC tend to suck your money and make you happy they did.
 
/
I think youre joking!?
Not at all. But, I'm saying it with the lightest of possible hearts. ;)

As others have said, it is simply fascinating to watch how the various pieces of the Resort work together to separate people from their money. For example, the new MYW ticketing structure, Magical Express, and DDP are pure genius. They all work in concert to (a) create a captive audience whose entire vacation budget---in time and money---is spent with Disney and (b) upsell guests into buying more than they actually need in advance of arrival, thinking that they are really getting a discount.

Pure. Genius. I love it!
 
$200 for 40 girls to play dress up!
40 girls!!!
40 GIrls!!
THAT IS A STEAL!!
40 get their hair done and a wand and some junk for only $200
THAT IS BASCIALLY FREE!!
how much is a day for 40 kids at Build a bear, chucky cheese..etc etc
not 200 balls!
40$ even for 1 girl is a good price!
 
A couple of points. Not only does DVC alter how you travel but how much you travel to WDW in many cases. Also, 350 points won't get you the trips you stated (7 nights in a 2 BR and 5 nights in a 1 BR long weekends), you're closer to 600 or more depending on the resort in question and specific dates. And as I noted earlier, using the rack rate of the destination options is fools game. From a $$$ standpoint you should use what you would get if you were paying cash both in terms of costs and discounts. Certainly DVC can give you a controlled cost to get such a luxury and there are hidden savings (and costs) such as potential dining savings.

In your case with a family of four you could likely save money if you'd stay on property anyway in deluxe and compared to studios but you're not and a lot of others are in the same situation. Or you could come out about even compared to moderates and have better for around the same cost. Just another example of how Disney and DVC tend to suck your money and make you happy they did.


Dean:

7 nights AKV Choice season, 2 bedroom Standard =227 points. (week before xmas and checking in Fri before turkey day(i may have been off by 12 points)
5 nights BWV standard view 1 bedroom(sunday-thursday) adventure = 90
33 points left over for studio stays. (I didn't exercise good judgement in my explanation. I own Wyndham and stay Fr/sat there and move to BWV for Sun/mon night. This gives me two long weekends for the points quoted. BWV is Sun/mon once and Sun/mon/tu the other.) Wyndham is a great add on to maximize DVC. Especially with free valet at the Disney resorts. Also, since I have the AP's, I get free parking at the parks when I am at Wyndham.

Even with the adjustements, I still have points left over.

Not comparing rack rates. I am using rates I got off of Disney website last year for the dates we went (it is only a one year comparison and things do change).

Yes, I could stay at moderates, but in 19 years of going to Disney, I only did that twice. I stayed off site a couple of times as well (2x at Marriott Grande Vista and once at Sabel Palms). Nice places, but not something we enjoyed nearly as much as on site.

I wouldn't classify DVC as the bargain of the century. I know in my case however, it will definitely save me money vs the way I use to do Disney. I should have explained the Wyndham component to make things clearer in my original post (in fact, your advice helped guide me that way and it has worked perfectly.........thank you!) I have taken 3 vacations since the week before Xmas and they have all cost me $0. SSR 2 brd 5 nights at Xmas with developer points, 2 days at BWV in a studio and 2 days at Vero in studio courtesy of banked points on resale purchase. Just got back from 4 days at Bonnet Creek 2 bedroom courtesy of additional, unused points on Wyndham resale. I also made a 42k deposit into RCI with Wyndham. Also booked my MIL for 2 nights at Myrtle with the rest of the Wyndham resale points. I might add that I didn't know I had the extra Wyndham points until my deed arrived.
 
I am always fascinated by posts that talk about how expensive Disney is. I will acknowledge that Disney isn't cheap, but is it the blowout that some make it out to be? What do people do on their vacations, nothing? If you go to the beach and sit on a chair, then Disney is expensive. If you do something however, I think it is one of the cheapest options out there. Here are some examples for a family of four.

Let's just assume a cost of $35 per day to be in the parks (5 day park hopper good for 7 days). Family of four equals $140 per day.

A 2-3 hour horseback ride on the beach costs $200 for four.

A broadway play for 3 hours would cost over $500.

One simulater ride in Las Vegas would cost about $50-80 and last 10 minutes.

Movie tickets would cost $40.

An NFl game would cost well over $200 and last 3 hours. Same for baseball or basketball.

4 Tickets to Blue Man Group would cost $200-300. Cirque probably more.

A safari in San Diego at the Animal Park would cost $100, and when it's over it's over.

Tickets to the county fair, with ride tickets would cost more than a day at Disney.

How far would your kid get on $20 each at an arcade? Maybe an hour or two.

A bus tour of Hollywood or NYC would cost at least $80-$100

I could go on. I'm pretty certain there is no bigger bang for your entertainment buck than a day at Disney. In aggregate it costs a lot. When you break it down, it is very reasonable.
 
Let's just assume a cost of $35 per day to be in the parks (5 day park hopper good for 7 days)
It's been a while since you've bought tickets, hasn't it? A 5-day park hopper is ~$290 for an adult, ~$250 for a kid. A family of two adults/two kids would be just over $215 per day, not $140.

It's not just the park tickets though--and that's the only thing you are using as your point of comparison. The resorts are significantly more expensive than comparable properties in the "real world". The Deluxe hotels are comparable to something between a "regular" Marriott and a "better" Westin in terms of amenities, furnishings, etc., yet they charge (and routinely get) more-than-Ritz-Carlton money. And, there is simply no comparison between any Disney resort and the Ritz Carlton standard, and there won't be until Disney has cabana boys to set up my beach chair, adjust my umbrella as the sun moves, and bring me drinks poolside.

Even comparing only entertainment costs---all of the other "family vacation destinations" we've visited (Wisconsin Dells, Gatlinburg, Williamsburg) work out to be less expensive for entertainment, and we pack the weeks pretty full: go kart tracks, water parks, mini golf, amusement parks, horseback riding, fishing, riding the "Ducks", etc. etc. etc.

On the other hand, an all-inclusive guest ranch with unlimited fishing, horseback riding, guided hikes, etc. in the Colorado Rockies was significantly more expensive. It was also significantly more personal.

At the end of the day, I think the prices for each of these experiences was ultimately fair. Disney is more expensive than the other "usual suspects", but it delivers value comparable to its price. The guest ranch was more expensive than Disney but it too was a good value---we certainly hope to get back and do it again, because it was a lot of fun.
 
Dean:

7 nights AKV Choice season, 2 bedroom Standard =227 points. (week before xmas and checking in Fri before turkey day(i may have been off by 12 points)
5 nights BWV standard view 1 bedroom(sunday-thursday) adventure = 90
33 points left over for studio stays. (I didn't exercise good judgement in my explanation. I own Wyndham and stay Fr/sat there and move to BWV for Sun/mon night. This gives me two long weekends for the points quoted. BWV is Sun/mon once and Sun/mon/tu the other.) Wyndham is a great add on to maximize DVC. Especially with free valet at the Disney resorts. Also, since I have the AP's, I get free parking at the parks when I am at Wyndham.

Even with the adjustements, I still have points left over.

Not comparing rack rates. I am using rates I got off of Disney website last year for the dates we went (it is only a one year comparison and things do change).

Yes, I could stay at moderates, but in 19 years of going to Disney, I only did that twice. I stayed off site a couple of times as well (2x at Marriott Grande Vista and once at Sabel Palms). Nice places, but not something we enjoyed nearly as much as on site.

I wouldn't classify DVC as the bargain of the century. I know in my case however, it will definitely save me money vs the way I use to do Disney. I should have explained the Wyndham component to make things clearer in my original post (in fact, your advice helped guide me that way and it has worked perfectly.........thank you!) I have taken 3 vacations since the week before Xmas and they have all cost me $0. SSR 2 brd 5 nights at Xmas with developer points, 2 days at BWV in a studio and 2 days at Vero in studio courtesy of banked points on resale purchase. Just got back from 4 days at Bonnet Creek 2 bedroom courtesy of additional, unused points on Wyndham resale. I also made a 42k deposit into RCI with Wyndham. Also booked my MIL for 2 nights at Myrtle with the rest of the Wyndham resale points. I might add that I didn't know I had the extra Wyndham points until my deed arrived.
One could go for even cheaper points but your itemization does not match your previously stated criteria which included Christmas alternating with the the week before xmas plus two long weekends. I'm glad you've taken advantage of some of the other options out there to benefit your family and pleased I could have helped in some way. Now if you can trade in to DVC every couple of years, you'll be even better off.

I am always fascinated by posts that talk about how expensive Disney is. I will acknowledge that Disney isn't cheap, but is it the blowout that some make it out to be? What do people do on their vacations, nothing? If you go to the beach and sit on a chair, then Disney is expensive. If you do something however, I think it is one of the cheapest options out there. Here are some examples for a family of four.

Let's just assume a cost of $35 per day to be in the parks (5 day park hopper good for 7 days). Family of four equals $140 per day.

A 2-3 hour horseback ride on the beach costs $200 for four.

A broadway play for 3 hours would cost over $500.

One simulater ride in Las Vegas would cost about $50-80 and last 10 minutes.

Movie tickets would cost $40.

An NFl game would cost well over $200 and last 3 hours. Same for baseball or basketball.

4 Tickets to Blue Man Group would cost $200-300. Cirque probably more.

A safari in San Diego at the Animal Park would cost $100, and when it's over it's over.

Tickets to the county fair, with ride tickets would cost more than a day at Disney.

How far would your kid get on $20 each at an arcade? Maybe an hour or two.

A bus tour of Hollywood or NYC would cost at least $80-$100

I could go on. I'm pretty certain there is no bigger bang for your entertainment buck than a day at Disney. In aggregate it costs a lot. When you break it down, it is very reasonable.
The issue is that most people don't vacation that way and if they do, they don't do the expensive things each and every day. We go on a trip about EOY as a family. I "pay" for the accommodations and invite as many as we can to fill up the available space comfortably. This past summer we were at Gatlinburg with 35 people in 9 larger units (2 BR or above). Same when we go to HH. We normally eat out a couple of times, grill out, rotate who makes meals, rent bikes, and enjoy. And I'll be the first to say it's not necessarily about cost but value and I think there is a lot of value with Disney and DVC if one makes reasonable choices but we were discussing cost not value, that is a totally different discussion IMO.
 
It's been a while since you've bought tickets, hasn't it? A 5-day park hopper is ~$290 for an adult, ~$250 for a kid. A family of two adults/two kids would be just over $215 per day, not $140.

It's not just the park tickets though--and that's the only thing you are using as your point of comparison. The resorts are significantly more expensive than comparable properties in the "real world". The Deluxe hotels are comparable to something between a "regular" Marriott and a "better" Westin in terms of amenities, furnishings, etc., yet they charge (and routinely get) more-than-Ritz-Carlton money. And, there is simply no comparison between any Disney resort and the Ritz Carlton standard, and there won't be until Disney has cabana boys to set up my beach chair, adjust my umbrella as the sun moves, and bring me drinks poolside.

Even comparing only entertainment costs---all of the other "family vacation destinations" we've visited (Wisconsin Dells, Gatlinburg, Williamsburg) work out to be less expensive for entertainment, and we pack the weeks pretty full: go kart tracks, water parks, mini golf, amusement parks, horseback riding, fishing, riding the "Ducks", etc. etc. etc.

On the other hand, an all-inclusive guest ranch with unlimited fishing, horseback riding, guided hikes, etc. in the Colorado Rockies was significantly more expensive. It was also significantly more personal.

At the end of the day, I think the prices for each of these experiences was ultimately fair. Disney is more expensive than the other "usual suspects", but it delivers value comparable to its price. The guest ranch was more expensive than Disney but it too was a good value---we certainly hope to get back and do it again, because it was a lot of fun.

5 day park hoppers are currently good for 7 days

5- Day - DISNEY'S Park Hopper Pass - Adult (Age 10+) PLUS 2 MORE FREE DAYS UPGRADE TO A 7 DAY PASS

Disney's 5 Day Park Hopper Ticket

Gate Price:
$289.68

Our Price:
$283.00


$580 + $500 = 1080 / 7 = $155 per day. I have purchased AP most recently, so I haven't bought passes for 18 months.


I was just referring to the cost of the parks themselves, not parks + Disney accomodations. If you do everything Disney, it is expensive. I still feel the cost of the parks over a week period is a bargain. If you wanted to include hotel costs, Is there anywhere in the USA you can stay cheaper than Orlando if you chose to go the cheap route? You can get decent rooms for $69 bucks in off season, off site.
 
"One could go for even cheaper points but your itemization does not match your previously stated criteria which included Christmas alternating with the the week before xmas plus two long weekends.

Didn't change it, just didn't write it correctly.

I wrote, "the week before Christmas or Xmas". Should have written, "The week before Tday or the week before Xmas". Believe me, I have no desire to be in the parks on Xmas day or between Xmas and New Years.

I have edited my original post so that it makes more sense.
 
The issue is that most people don't vacation that way and if they do, they don't do the expensive things each and every day. We go on a trip about EOY as a family. I "pay" for the accommodations and invite as many as we can to fill up the available space comfortably. This past summer we were at Gatlinburg with 35 people in 9 larger units (2 BR or above). Same when we go to HH. We normally eat out a couple of times, grill out, rotate who makes meals, rent bikes, and enjoy. And I'll be the first to say it's not necessarily about cost but value and I think there is a lot of value with Disney and DVC if one makes reasonable choices but we were discussing cost not value, that is a totally different discussion IMO.

Dean:

I think the point I would make is that everyone seems to know exactly how much Disney costs them for a week. When they do other active vacation weeks, the money isn't going to the same company, all at once. I know that I spend as much when I'm not at Disney as I do at Disney, it just feels different.
 
Ohtarabell!!!
"I am always fascinated by posts that talk about how expensive Disney is. I will acknowledge that Disney isn't cheap, but is it the blowout that some make it out to be? What do people do on their vacations, nothing? If you go to the beach and sit on a chair, then Disney is expensive"


I LOVE THAT!!!:cool1:
THATS GREAT!!!!
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!:dance3:
 
And I'll be the first to say it's not necessarily about cost but value and I think there is a lot of value with Disney and DVC if one makes reasonable choices but we were discussing cost not value, that is a totally different discussion IMO.

Dean I'm glad you added this note because normally I see the two of us agree on many things. I feel you are really taking a hard line on cost savings and I see your point. We own DVC, Wyndham pts and a couple of TS to trade with.....yes it is expensive. However, in one of your earlier posts you made a pt that was exactly of how I did a vacation....added on to a business trip etc. I'm really upset at myself that I didn't travel more often before I had kids, but all I saw was cost. Now that my kids are young I want to travel with them and do family vacations on a regular basis.

We went to Disney and stayed at a moderate at was LUCKY to get two adjoining rooms. There was 3 adults and 3 young kids....was not cheap and I tried to get best deal I could. I started to learn about TS and yes even so still bought DVC. You hit it on the head with VALUE, I don't think I will ever be able to stay in a hotel room again for a vacation. We love being able to actually enjoy Disney PLUS relax when on vacation. It is important for us to stay onsite and so far have lucked out with BCV, BWV, DWL and in Oct BLT. I started to do some number crunching on how to get bigger accomidations at Disney and it was staggering. Then I really wanted to stay at the deluxe places and oh my I couldn't believe the cost. I started to think only for the rich an famous. I looked into offsite but we really wanted to stay onsite. We rarely eat at the parks (almost always bring our own stuff) or cook and we buy AP with discount. My wife and I did an adult only trip and we did eat out 4 nights the rest at the room. I actually prefer to eat in the room than at the parks or restaurants regardless of price.

We will do 2-3 week long or more trips a year between Disney and other locations. We will use our DVC ONLY for Disney trips our other cheap stuff is for the other vacations.

Now will DVC "pay off" for us:confused3 Hard to say beacuse I was looking to change my travel habits and go to Disney at least once a year knowing I would have to get 2 rooms. I didn't know about DVC I found it by looking at ways to go to Disney in a cost effective way. So I say DVC didn't make me spend more, I was looking at ways to do what I'm doing now and DVC seemed to be a cost effective way to get that done. Now we may go to Disney 2-3x's a year not because of DVC but because we love Disney and enjoy the experience. I have traded into DVC and yup that is a VERY cost effective thing to do especially when you can do on II's AP. However, that is unreliable and with young kids we need flexiblity (oh please let DVC go back to II). We still try to go in offseason, not because of point cost but because I hate crowds.

So yes DVC isn't going to put money in my pocket but I do think it allowing me to do what I was going to do anyway in a more cost effective way.
 



















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