If I buy DVC direct and get 2009 points, when do they expire?

[dudelydude]

The only situation where you might have given them erroneous info is if they were buying now and planning to take a trip prior to the end of their 2009 UY. In that scenario, they'd have only 100 available -- 50 current points + 50 borrowed from 2010.

Right, well this would be the distinction that I would have to explain, Jim. The actual booking date would determine in what Use Year they are using their points and would have to wait until their 2010 Use Year to have 150 points. I am clear on that now as the difference between calendar year and use year, which didn't click with me...rookie mistake. THanks for the clarification.

 

[JimMIA]

Right, well this would be the distinction that I would have to explain, Jim. The actual booking date would determine in what Use Year they are using their points and would have to wait until their 2010 Use Year to have 150 points. I am clear on that now as the difference between calendar year and use year, which didn't click with me...rookie mistake. THanks for the clarification.

Be careful with your terms. To most people, "booking date" means the date you call MS to make the reservation. That is NOT the date that counts.

The UY where the points need to be is the UY in which the days of the stay fall. We often call in one UY for a stay in the next, but when we call doesn't matter.

 

[wdrl]

I can think of a number of situations:

1. You want a certain resort and it's only being sold directly (Aulani, for example)
2. You want a specific Use Year at one of the "sold out" resorts and there are no contracts available with that UY in the resale market.
3. You want to buy a very small contract and you can't find what you want in the resale market.
4. Disney's price or promotion is TRULY better than what's available resale. This in probably not true today very often, but there have been times in the past where it occurred.
5. You MUST finance and DVC direct offers financing rates which make the overall cost of purchasing lower than buying resale and financing at higher rates. Usually that's not the case, but there are situations where it might be true.

I'm sure there are other situations -- this is not intended as a definitive list.

A couple more situations where direct buys may be preferable to using the resale market:

1. The resale contract is stripped of points (some or all banked, current, and borrowed UY points have been used) while the Direct buy contract has the full complement of points; and
   
2. The buyer needs immediate access to the points and cannot wait the 45 to 60 days it normally requires for resale contracts to close.

 

[roogard]

I am in the process of buying direct from DVC (BLT 215), and when on the phone with them we asked if there were any other incentives besides the current $10 off a point for buying over 200 points. She told us yes,that we would get July 2009 points that we could bank immediately since they would expire July31st 2010,and then we would get our 2010 points on August 1st, so we would be starting with double points. We were on the fence before we heard that, and once realizing we would be able to start with twice as many points as we originally thought, so we could come to Disney sooner we decided to go for it. The salesperson said this was of a $3,000 value, and we were also thinking about it as an extra year of points, 2009 to 2060 instead of 2010 to 2060 (since that is when BLT expires).
All the talk of these points being ours anyway makes me feel a little foolish, but at the same time, having twice as many points to start with which we receive in two weeks time and planning our first trip as DVC members is exciting, and going to Disney is what it is all about anyway!
BTW, I have been reading tons of threads, and have learned so much info (to the point that my husband now rolls his eyes when I say "on the forum it says....." So thanks to all the people that take time to post questions and answers!!!

 

[JimMIA]

She told us yes,that we would get July 2009 points that we could bank immediately since they would expire July31st 2010,and then we would get our 2010 points on August 1st, so we would be starting with double points.

This is true. You will start your 2010 UY with double points, half of which will expire on 7/31/2011 and cannot be further banked. However, there is still a legitimate benefit to that -- just not what your guide is telling you. I'll explain that below.

The salesperson said this was of a $3,000 value

This is a flat-out lie.

And it makes me wonder whether she's the same guide we have! Ours happens to be one of the few who will just flat lie to sell something and she's told us some whoppers.

DVC is not giving you a thing -- you are buying those points. There is real benefit to the 2009 points, but they were yours all along and certainly not a gift.

Not only is she lying, but she's very poor at math. I don't keep up with Disney direct prices, so this will be off somewhat -- but if you are paying $110 per point for 50 years of points, you are paying $2.20 per point each year. Dues aren't tied to points, but if they were, you still would not be paying any 2009 dues (you will pay about 1/3 of the 2010 dues). $2.20 X 200 = $440...not $3,000. But she's lying in the first place, so I guess she's not overly concerned about goofy math.

All the talk of these points being ours anyway makes me feel a little foolish, but at the same time, having twice as many points to start with which we receive in two weeks time and planning our first trip as DVC members is exciting, and going to Disney is what it is all about anyway!

Well, two ways to look at it. One, under Florida law you have ten days from the date you sign the final purchasing contract to rescind (cancel) and receive every penny of your money back. If you don't think this purchase is really what you should be doing, cancel.

The other way to look at it is that the banked 2009 points will be a legitimate benefit to you. You will have twice the points next year. If you don't use them all, you can't bank the 2009 points, but banked points should be used first and you will be able to bank any unused 2010 points. So in that situation, some of the points can be rolled over year after year...which is a good thing.

You guys need to put aside all of the emotional stuff and just decide whether this real deal is a good one for you.

If so, put aside the fact that the guide lied to you (but don't forget it) and go forward. If not, take more time to research and start over.

DVC ownership is a long-term thing -- don't rush.

 

[JimMIA]

The buyer needs immediate access to the points and cannot wait the 45 to 60 days it normally requires for resale contracts to close.

Yeah...but the argument could be made that the purchaser is making a rash decision if they need immediate access. Virtually everyone on the DIS usually recommends prospective buyers take a longterm view, not just focusing on their first reservation.

 

[JimMIA]

A couple more situations where direct buys may be preferable to using the resale market:

1. The resale contract is stripped of points (some or all banked, current, and borrowed UY points have been used) while the Direct buy contract has the full complement of points.

True, but in this resale market, that should not be much of a problem because there are so many contracts available. A handful of points missing from one year is no big deal, but if a resale contract is really stripped, you just move on to another contract.

For some buyers, though, a stripped contract might be a good thing if it means they can get a lower price-point. For example, if you know you can't take a Disney vacation during 2011, a stripped contract at a lower price might be a benefit. Conversely, a "loaded" contract at a higher price might be paying extra for points you can't use.

Resale buyers need to just take their time and decide what is really important to them and consider contracts accordingly.

 

[Bullseye]

They're NOT previous year points -- they're current year points.

Two examples:

1. I have an October UY, and this is July. Calendar year, we are in 2010. But as far as my points are concerned, I am still in my 2009 UY until October 1, 2010.

Likewise, a prospective owner purchasing points with a UY of August, September, October, or December would also be buying during those points' 2009 UY. And therefore, they would get the points they are entitled to -- the 2009 current year points.

2. If the buyer is buying points with a UY between January and June, those points are already in their 2010 UY. The 2009 points have expired, and the 2010 points are already issued. They would also get the points to which they are entitled -- the 2010 points.

I agree. The perk here is getting a full set of points for 2009 and paying pro-rated dues on those 2009 points, perhaps as little as a couple of weeks' worth for those who purchase an Aug UY prior to Aug 1st. Certainly a better deal than buying an Aug UY contract just a few weeks later (on/after Aug 1st) and missing out on those 2009 UY points. As JimMIA points out they will pay dues for the remaining months of 2010 as well but technically those dues are associated with the 2010 points.

I don't like the DVC sales pitch suggesting the 2009 UY points are special bonus points, however purchasing late in your UY does offer a little cost savings on dues that first year.

I just sat down this morning to try to bone up on the very same question OP had posted. We also just joined in the last few weeks and bought directly from DVC.
At first I thought JimMIa's responses were kinda negative against DVC, but after reading the examples above now I get what he's saying .
They are not extra points as indicated by DVC Rep!!
But as Lil Lisa Simpson points out, I'm only paying partial year dues, which is a good thing! Thanks to both for the help!

 

[LisaS]

I am in the process of buying direct from DVC (BLT 215), and when on the phone with them we asked if there were any other incentives besides the current $10 off a point for buying over 200 points. She told us yes,that we would get July 2009 points that we could bank immediately since they would expire July31st 2010,and then we would get our 2010 points on August 1st, so we would be starting with double points. We were on the fence before we heard that, and once realizing we would be able to start with twice as many points as we originally thought, so we could come to Disney sooner we decided to go for it. The salesperson said this was of a $3,000 value, and we were also thinking about it as an extra year of points, 2009 to 2060 instead of 2010 to 2060 (since that is when BLT expires).

It sounds like your guide was valuing those points at the $15/pt that DVC charges members to purchase up to 24 one-time use points when making a reservation. That's really stretching it!

If you purchased a point transfer from another member, you could do so for $8-$10/pt. If you wanted to use the points 11 months out at BLT, you would have to transfer in BLT points and would probably have to pay the higher figure of $10/pt so one could argue that the retail value of those points is at most $2150. The cost to the member who owned those points would be around $1300 (using Jim's figures: $110/pt / 50 years = $2.20 + $3.78/pt in dues = $5.98/pt. Multiply that by 215 points gets you to around $1300.)

All the talk of these points being ours anyway makes me feel a little foolish, but at the same time, having twice as many points to start with which we receive in two weeks time and planning our first trip as DVC members is exciting, and going to Disney is what it is all about anyway!

When calculating pro-rated dues, DVC treats points as if they are spread out evenly over your Use Year. You are at the end of the August UY so you will pay about 14 days worth of dues on those 2009 UY points (about 14-1/2 cents per point, just over $31 total of the $371.84 you will pay in pro-rated dues for 2010). They don't pro-rate the points though -- you get the full set of 2009 points and you can bank them into the next UY even though you are way past the banking deadline. If they were out of Aug 2009 points but you still wanted to purchase an Aug UY, your dues would start on Aug 1, 2010, the day your initial UY begins and you got your first points. You would save $31 but lose out on a year's worth of points. So buying what you did and when you did was a good deal. No need to feel foolish about that!

 

[parlay]

The salesperson said this was of a $3,000 value, and we were also thinking about it as an extra year of points, 2009 to 2060 instead of 2010 to 2060 (since that is when BLT expires).
All the talk of these points being ours anyway makes me feel a little foolish, but at the same time, having twice as many points to start with which we receive in two weeks time and planning our first trip as DVC members is exciting, and going to Disney is what it is all about anyway!

Let me start by saying that I am NOT a salesperson, but I do understand that their job is to convince a buyer to purchase their product. You can't fault someone for presenting their product in the best possible light. You as the consumer need to go in understanding their motivation, and being armed with the best information possible. Which is why these boards are so valuable. BUT.. There are many ways to interpret that phrase "$3000 value". You can interpret it as JimMIA does, or you can think of it in terms of the type of accommodation you can get at BLT for 215 points and then see how much it would cost you to book that same room at Rack rate (with that interpretation your guide is correct).

I don't believe that your guide "lied" to you. Did they interpret the value in a way that made it look better for you to buy? Of course they did!! Otherwise they'd be looking for a job in another field. But if you do feel taken advantage of, or are not happy, then you do have time to walk away.

 

[JimMIA]

At first I thought JimMIa's responses were kinda negative against DVC, but after reading the examples above now I get what he's saying .

I'm not anti-DVC at all; I love DVC. My family (including my two adult daughters' families) has taken 28 DVC trips in five years and have never been disappointed...not once.

But I'm a realist.

I realize that many prospective buyers get their information only from the slick DVC brochures and guides -- which is to say that they have no knowledge base to compare the claims against.

I recognize that DVC timeshare salespersons will put their product in the best possible light. They usually stop just short of telling outright lies (which is WAY better than salespersons from just about any other company...whose sales pitches are laden with lie after lie and are labled "Weasel Speak" over on TUG).

DVC guides overstate the importance of every benefit and minimize any potential drawbacks or weaknesses. That's their job, they are good at it, and most (but not all) of them are relatively honest...for timeshare salespeople. But they are timeshare salesmen, not your friend.

DVC is a great timeshare for staying in DVC resorts. But most of the other options emphasized by the DVC guides are exaggerated far beyond their real worth. And obviously, the guides aren't going to tell anyone about resale -- in fact, if you ask about resale at all they'll probably give you a lot of totally false misinformation to steer you away from resale.

Many of us here on the DIS try to offer objective advice -- that doesn't mean we are anti-DVC. Just for the record, I doubt if there are any anti-DVC people on the DVC boards.

Others see DVC through rose-colored glasses and will use every logical contortion to avoid saying anything the least bit negative about DVC ("Well, you know...you could look at it this way, or you could look at it that way"... )

 

[Bullseye]

I'm not anti-DVC at all; I love DVC. My family (including my two adult daughters' families) has taken 28 DVC trips in five years and have never been disappointed...not once.
Many of us here on the DIS try to offer objective advice -- that doesn't mean we are anti-DVC. Just for the record, I doubt if there are any anti-DVC people on the DVC boards.

Others see DVC through rose-colored glasses and will use every logical contortion to avoid saying anything the least bit negative about DVC ("Well, you know...you could look at it this way, or you could look at it that way"... )

Wow 28 trips in 5 years..thats awesome... glad to hear your enthusiasm.

After six straight years of going to WDW we decided to join DVC because we know we will be going to Disney for years to come.

And yeah I know there are those that would never utter a negative word against Disney, thats true in most of the boards here. I also like to think of myself as a realist, so I appreciate objective advice when I find it. Take care.

 

[JimMIA]

Wow 28 trips in 5 years..thats awesome... glad to hear your enthusiasm.

Well, remember that I'm really talking about 3 families over a five-year period. Our DVC is held in a family trust and all three families have access to it.

Also, my daughters (because of work and family committments) often take short (2-3 day) trips. One of my daughters had a conference in WDW and only stayed one night in DVC after the conference ended.

And not all of those have been to WDW. One was to HHI and four have been to VB.

 

[Brian Noble]

For some buyers, though, a stripped contract might be a good thing if it means they can get a lower price-point. For example, if you know you can't take a Disney vacation during 2011, a stripped contract at a lower price might be a benefit. Conversely, a "loaded" contract at a higher price might be paying extra for points you can't use.

I haven't been following the resale market as closely as I once was---I'm "out of the market" for now. But, my recollection was that stripped contracts were over-priced, but loaded ones (with extra banked points) were under-priced.

Here's a hypothetical example. Suppose there are two identical contracts, one straight and one stripped. The stripped one might be $4-$5 less per point. So, if you don't need to vacation in the first year it *looks* like a better deal. But, you could instead buy the straight contract, and rent out the first year's points. It would not be unusual to get $8-10 for those points. So, if you buy the straight contract (and put in a little bit of work) your net purchase cost is even lower than the stripped one.

 

[JimMIA]

I haven't been following the resale market as closely as I once was---I'm "out of the market" for now. But, my recollection was that stripped contracts were over-priced, but loaded ones (with extra banked points) were under-priced.

Well obviously, the prospective purchaser would have to do their homework and not pay too much for either one.

Here's a hypothetical example. Suppose there are two identical contracts, one straight and one stripped. The stripped one might be $4-$5 less per point. So, if you don't need to vacation in the first year it *looks* like a better deal. But, you could instead buy the straight contract, and rent out the first year's points. It would not be unusual to get $8-10 for those points.

That's a legitimate hypothetical for some owners, but not for everyone. Renting is a whole new can of worms. A lot of experienced owners don't rent their points because they don't feel comfortable with the risk, don't have the time or patience, and/or don't feel comfortable renting through a broker.

Either way, I'd hope they would negotiate a fairly-priced contract -- neither overpaying nor underpaying and losing their deal to ROFR.

 

[roogard]

Thanks for all the food for thought. We are 99% sure we are going to sign the contract, and can't wait to try out the BLT! We have two years that we can fit into a 1 bedroom villa before our youngest turns three, which we then would need the two bedroom as we have a total of 4 kids. This was one of our reasons for joining, as we loved staying at the Poly and we have grown out of being able to use just one room, so the DVC two bedrooms sound great for us! We thought about buying 3 years ago and researched it all back then. I am happy to we have decided to do this, as we love our Disney vacations!

 

[dbs1228]

While buying into dvc in Feb our rep for sure made it seem like we were getting something extra with the double points to start. He also made it sound like they do not usually do this and it was an incentive they were running at the time. Makes perfect sense now because we were talking about a Feb UY (after all the promises) and the fact we travel every Feb for the past 15 years and after "talking to his supervisor" came back and asked us if we wanted a Aug. UY that way we would have more time to use the points. In reality he could not give us 2009 since it was the end of Feb when we were there!

Still very happy I bought in, I am fine with Aug UY, but I am even happier we added on resale with same UY, all 2009 (banked points)and all points going forward for far less then what they were trying to get us to buy direct! Saved 4100.00! Do your research, I wish I had done more but for now I am happy with our purchase

 

[Brian Noble]

That's a legitimate hypothetical for some owners, but not for everyone. Renting is a whole new can of worms. A lot of experienced owners don't rent their points because they don't feel comfortable with the risk, don't have the time or patience, and/or don't feel comfortable renting through a broker.

Perhaps, but that unwillingness, too has a cost. Particularly given the existence of services such as Daddio's, monetizing points is relatively simple. An over-cautious purchaser may well not be willing to take that step. But, a savvy purchaser can take advantage of the fact that the market does not properly value extra/missing points.