If Disney were alive today, would he like or dislike want his going on in his company?

LSUmiss

DIS Veteran
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
They aren't pricing people out to keep the crowds down. They are pricing people out because they can and still make a fortune. If they thought they had to stay at a price point to entice lower middle class families, they would. Even if it meant the crowds being at max at 9 in the morning.

Besides, I hope you aren't saying that 7.7 billion people are competing to get in the parks. Not all those people even want to go to Disney. I mean I like it and all but still.
I just don’t know who all these priced out families are. It is expensive, but ppl find a way. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t go b/c they can’t afford it other than the very poor. Looking around wdw it sure doesn’t appear to be just wealthy ppl.
 

Ben E N

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2017
It seems as if you're laboring under the illusion that I've made a complaint against pricing or being shut out by the rising costs. I haven't participated in that aspect of the conversation.

My comment about the parks is on page one -- a speculation that Walt would be disgusted by the persistently grungy status of several aspects of the parks -- and stunned that the best idea decision makers and imagineering could come up with for a pavilion devoted to the idea of imagination and an inspired and beloved original character could be distilled down to a flatulence punchline.
Yes, I agree with those complaints 100%. I doubt that even Michael Eisner is too happy about that. Sadly, Iger figured out that IP sells, and is putting all of their money into that. How Walt and Roy would feel about that really depends on how they would feel about making money for themselves and those who investing in them, because that's what's driving these current decisions.
Everytime I fill out a parks survey, I mention the imagination pavilion's status, yet my voice seems to get lost in the crowd.
 
  • kaytieeldr

    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
    Joined
    Jun 11, 2005
    But I do think more ppl from different economic backgrounds go now. Maybe that says more about spending habits than anything.
    Even more about (highly successful) marketing!
    I'm not sure what the point of this mental exercise is. Walt was a man of his time. He'd have just turned 117 last year. What would 117 year-old Walt think of Disney now? Or are we asking if 50 year-old Walt traveled to 2019 what he would think?
    And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a trolley car ;)
     

    j2thomason

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 14, 2013
    I think that Walt would LOVE all of the new technology and animation. I also think that he would be thrilled that there are now Disney parks all around the world for families to enjoy.

    I think he would be very disappointed in the lack of "show" in the parks. The list is never-ending....frumpy CMs, some you even see them outside of the parks in uniform, obvious tattoos hidden by band-aids or long sleeves, fingernail polish, earrings larger than small studs, etc. and many CMs with bad attitudes. Then there is the lack of detail to maintenance and cleanliness.....the bathrooms...nasty!!!!!! There was a definite lack of quality in the building of Toy Story Land.

    I know this is not a popular opinion, but Walt did not want alcohol to be sold in the parks. He wanted to parks to be for families, where they could enjoy time together. The alcohol also contributes to some of the bad behavior from guests in the parks, especially Epcot. I know that I am a Disney prude, but it's sad to me to think that a family couldn't spend a few days together without the adults drinking alcohol. Save it for resort restaurants, but don't allow it in the parks!

    If I remember correctly, before Walt died while the "Florida Project" was being planned, he wanted there to be a campground so that those who couldn't afford a hotel room would still be able to experience the magic.

    The Traditions class used to last several days and how is only a few hours long. The CMs no longer know Disney history or the important details of the parks or attractions. One of my daughter's friends who had been on the college program twice and a then seasonal employee had never been to One Man's Dream (Walt Disney Presents) until she met us at DHS and went with us. She didn't know half of the history displayed there. That attraction should be part of the Traditions class! If they want CMs who care about their job and company, hire people who know and love the history of the company and who want those traditions to continue. Give them a Disney quiz as part of the application process, or require online Disney history classes to existing employees before they can earn a promotion or advancement in the company. Know your product!

    The focus is moving farther and farther away from Walt's original vision. The focus is now on money instead of show and experience. This is probably another unpopular opinion, but I am willing to pay more for tickets if we can get a better show experience....smaller crowds, CMs that love Disney, clean parks, and dependable maintenance of all rides, attractions, and transportation.

    This is just my opinion and I am entitled to it, just like you are to yours. Don't be a hater:)
     

    Hikergirl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2016
    Disney's prices aren't outrageous when you compare them to other things.
    I looked at tickets for a concert for dh and I, the cheapest was $130 each. That is a couple hours of entertainment vs. one day from open to close at Magic Kingdom.
    My ds wants to go to a Knicks game before the season is over, that is another thing that is priced comparable to a day at WDW.
    It's all the added expenses that aren't WDW exclusive (unless you choose to stay on-site and eat on-site) that make it so it's priced out of many families reach.

    WDW also has options to help everyone afford to visit.
    You don't need to stay deluxe, get park hoppers, do character dining or even eat their food.
    You can make a trip that is affordable for your budget.
     
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  • luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    I have no clue, either. They were never given that sort of opportunity. Those parties started out at $25, and off on the Tomorrowland Terrace. I couldn't imagine anybody saying that's a bad idea to try out. The price started creeping up to $50 in 2016, and has taken off from there. If people weren't paying the money, they wouldn't be charging it.
    They tried those stupid $600 tents a couple of years ago. People didn't want them, so they went away.
    When there's so many people (20 million+ annually at Magic Kingdom alone), there is bound to be competition for resources. I can't blame Disney for tapping into that.
    Well sure people are buying them and paying the price. Its still a created demand.
     

    smiths02

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 13, 2009
    Disneyland admission was $1 in 1955. Rides cost 10-30 cents. Maybe 9x that to account for inflation. I remember even as far back as the 1980s we always thought of visiting as relatively affordable.
    Even with $1 admission, there were low income families that couldn't afford that WANT.

    Your experiences were not the same for every family in America. In the 80s, Disney was just a dream for me and pretty much everyone I knew. Disney did not become a reality for me until I was firmly planted in the middle class.
    I think it matters where you lived. We were very low income, but in the 1980s and 1990s, we lived in Orange County, CA. Then, the ticket prices were such that we could save up and go for a day once a year or so. My friends who still live in OC who struggle now cannot realistically afford this (especially when there were discounts for So Cal for one-day tickets).
    1996...I found an article so a family of 4 could go to Disneyland for the day for about $136
    2019...It would cost $580 (without park hoppers, to be fair)
    That is 4.2 times the price.
    1996 Median household income $35,172
    2017 Median household income $60,336 (2019 not available yet)
    That increase is 1.7

    According to the inflation calculator $136 1996 dollars is about $217 2018 dollars. So Disney prices have gone up more than double inflation

    Disney has always been out of reach for some (especially if travel was involved), but there is no denying that it has become more of a luxury.

    That being said. I have no idea what Walt would think. For one, I didn't know him. For two, it would be impossible to know how he would have grown/changed if he were still alive.
     

    Mariearistocat

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Oct 22, 2018
    Low income people have always been priced out of Disney vacations.

    My parents (70 and 72) were not able to vacation at Disneyland when they were growing up. A Disney World vacation was not an option when my sister and I (50 and 49) were growing up.

    My son, nieces and nephews have all grown up going to Disney( and on other amazing vacations). Their reality was nothing more than a dream for their parents and grandparents.

    Disney vacations have always been out of reach for many.
    This is so true! I grew up going every year for over a week since 1972. The only way we afforded it is because my father worked extra shifts all year, holidays and saved for our trip. He loved it that much! Unfortunately, it was the only time we were able to spend with him. I knew a lot of kids plus a lot of my cousins never got to go due to the cost even back then. I don't know if the prices have risen equally with inflation, but the cost these days is exorbitant! I'm a Floridian and even with the discounted black out date silver pass, we don't feel it's worth it anymore with the heavy crowds. However, I get it's supply and demand. If they suddenly dropped the prices so everyone could afford it it would be even more insanely crowded there, park closures due to crowds reaching peak would become the norm. Would people prefer that when they are there for their February or September vacation they were turned away at 10:00 AM because the park has reached peak crowd level?
     

    mummabear

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    May 2, 2012
    I just don’t know who all these priced out families are. It is expensive, but ppl find a way. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t go b/c they can’t afford it other than the very poor. Looking around wdw it sure doesn’t appear to be just wealthy ppl.
    There is a difference between priced out-cant afford and priced out-dont see the value
     
  • ThistleMae

    Falling More in Love Every Year!
    Joined
    Jan 12, 2015
    I love the debates in here because any talk about WDW brings me closer to the feeling I get when I'm there. That's why I surf these boards in the first place, and oh, for information of course when planning my next trip. Of course none of us know what Walt would think, but it's fun to speculate isn't it? Personally, I was disappointed that the Great Movie Ride has changed. I loved Ellen's Universe of Energy and I hope they never retire Carousel of Progress. But when I'm dead and long gone, younger generations won't know the difference, if they never rode those rides to begin with. Young people like to reference things in their universe. New movies and inspirations will keep on being born and if we were able to go to DW a hundred years from now, my guess is we wouldn't recognize anything. Change is part of life. My motto, "Roll with it." I wish everyone a continued good debate!
     

    Gumbo4x4

    Note to the ladies who forgot to
    Joined
    Jan 19, 2012
    Disney's prices aren't outrageous when you compare them to other things.
    I looked at tickets for a concert for dh and I, the cheapest was $130 each. That is a couple hours of entertainment vs. one day from open to close at Magic Kingdom.
    My ds wants to go to a Knicks game before the season is over, that is another thing that is priced comparable to a day at WDW.
    It's all the added expenses that aren't WDW exclusive (unless you choose to stay on-site and eat on-site) that make it so it's priced out of many families reach.

    WDW also has options to help everyone afford to visit.
    You don't need to stay deluxe, get park hoppers, do character dining or even eat their food.
    You can make a trip that is affordable for your budget.
    Of course the flip side of that would be the annual passes for SW/Aquatica that we got on their annual buy one/get one deal. $400 for a family of four which included free parking and 10% off all food & merchandise. An entire year of fun for less than the price of one day at WDW.
     

    Hikergirl

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 28, 2016
    Of course the flip side of that would be the annual passes for SW/Aquatica that we got on their annual buy one/get one deal. $400 for a family of four which included free parking and 10% off all food & merchandise. An entire year of fun for less than the price of one day at WDW.
    I have no idea how much an AP for WDW is but still, that means 365 days of "value" for it so I assume if you broke it up by day it isn't that expensive at all.
    Also does an AP for WDW include all 4 parks? If yes then that is 2 more destinations for the added cost.

    It's really all relative to how you look at it. I am not saying WDW is cheap, it isn't but when comparing it to other destinations, or entertainment or sporting events it isn't outrageous.
     

    Wishing on a star

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 7, 2002
    They aren't pricing people out to keep the crowds down. They are pricing people out because they can and still make a fortune. If they thought they had to stay at a price point to entice lower middle class families, they would. Even if it meant the crowds being at max at 9 in the morning.
    I have to disagree.... Very much... The crowds in the parks and the demand for Tickets are very real.
    If the Parks were not close to full, and they were not meeting targeted numbers at current rates... They would def. not be continuing to raise rates.
    It is, without a doubt, like all economics, a supply/demand algorithm. They would have to have to find a way to limit costs and or make additional side revenues... But no way would they be raising rates if they were never 'selling out'. XX million tickets per year at $$$ per ticket might always make a 'fortune' more than XXXX million tickets per year at $$ per ticket.

    See, I think somewhat the opposite on things like dessert parties. There was no demand. Disney created that demand. Same with the infernal 6 month out ADRs. That demand is created.
    I have to disagree with this too. Demand was NOT created... the crowding (sheer number of tickets/guests) and desire (demand) for access to space to be able to really see and enjoy the evenings events wasn't "manufactured". That desire was simply cashed in on with the idea of, yes, guess what... extra cost perks. That is not rocket science.
    Same thing goes for the crowding and long waits and the desire (demand) to access to rides and attractions. FastPass simply cashed in on a demand that does exist.

    Trying to manufacture demand only goes so far. In the end, the reality of true market factors at play is what will prevail.

    I would hardly begin to believe that somebody just dreamed up a 'demand' for extra expense.
    It is not a very very very expensive cheap, low-quality, dessert that anybody truly needs or demands.
    Access to be able to enjoy better viewing and viewing atmosphere (i.e. not standing there elbow to elbow in the throngs... for some length of time) is a very true desire.

    Somebody can tell me that I just HAVE to have the latest expensive gadget... or a Pet Rock... or 'whatever'... and there are always a few suckers born every so often... But, guess what, sustained demand, with consumers willing to pay high prices, is not going to last unless there is an actual and meaningful and true desire/demand, and perceived benefit, for the product offered.
     
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    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    I have no idea how much an AP for WDW is but still, that means 365 days of "value" for it so I assume if you broke it up by day it isn't that expensive at all.
    Also does an AP for WDW include all 4 parks? If yes then that is 2 more destinations for the added cost.

    It's really all relative to how you look at it. I am not saying WDW is cheap, it isn't but when comparing it to other destinations, or entertainment or sporting events it isn't outrageous.
    Well for $360 you can get an annual pass from Sea World that includes 11 parks. Includes discount on food, a couple of free guest passes and then 50% off up to 6 guest passes.


    Universal’s for three parks is 504.00. But includes express pass.

    May be better deals but a quick google search has Disney annual pass for the 4 parks at 900. Which does include some other things too. I think the Memory maker and discounts on food maybe?
     

    luvsJack

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2007
    I have to disagree.... Very much... The crowds in the parks and the demand for Tickets are very real.
    If the Parks were not close to full, and they were not meeting targeted numbers at current rates... They would def. not be continuing to raise rates.
    It is, without a doubt, like all economics, a supply/demand algorithm. They would have to have to find a way to limit costs and or make additional side revenues... But no way would they be raising rates if they were never 'selling out'. XX million tickets per year at $$$ per ticket might always make a 'fortune' more than XXXX million tickets per year at $$ per ticket.


    I have to disagree with this too. Demand was NOT created... the crowding (sheer number of tickets/guests) and desire (demand) for access to space to be able to really see and enjoy the evenings events wasn't "manufactured". That desire was simply cashed in on with the idea of, yes, guess what... extra cost perks. That is not rocket science.
    Same thing goes for the crowding and long waits and the desire (demand) to access to rides and attractions. FastPass simply cashed in on a demand that does exist.

    Trying to manufacture demand only goes so far. In the end, the reality of true market factors at play is what will prevail.

    I would hardly begin to believe that somebody just dreamed up a 'demand' for extra expense.
    It is not a very very very expensive cheap, low-quality, dessert that anybody truly needs or demands.
    Access to be able to enjoy better viewing and viewing atmosphere (i.e. not standing there elbow to elbow in the throngs... for some length of time) is a very true desire.

    Somebody can tell me that I just HAVE to have the latest expensive gadget... or a Pet Rock... or 'whatever'... and there are always a few suckers born every so often... But, guess what, sustained demand, with consumers willing to pay high prices, is not going to last unless there is an actual and meaningful and true desire/demand, and perceived benefit, for the product offered.
    They dreamed them up just like they did the tents that didn’t seem to work.

    No one was standing there saying “this would be a good place for me to pay way too much for dessert so I can watch the fireworks”. No. Disney decided to try the idea and people bought it. Oh, wait, let’s make it something you have to reserve months in advance and that creates demand. Disney isn’t the only one that does it. Create a sense of urgency and people will buy. And with Disney, they didn’t have to worry about the numbers that say “won’t do that again” because all the new visitors will want to do it next year.


    If Disney reaches a point that they could not sell a ticket because the price is too high, they will offer more “deals” then you can shake a stick at. Look back over time. In years that the economy was down or for some reason their numbers were down they offered amazing deals and more people could afford to go. Yes it is supply and demand. Demand goes down, price goes down.
     

    Ben E N

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 14, 2017
    They dreamed them up just like they did the tents that didn’t seem to work.

    No one was standing there saying “this would be a good place for me to pay way too much for dessert so I can watch the fireworks”. No. Disney decided to try the idea and people bought it. Oh, wait, let’s make it something you have to reserve months in advance and that creates demand. Disney isn’t the only one that does it. Create a sense of urgency and people will buy. And with Disney, they didn’t have to worry about the numbers that say “won’t do that again” because all the new visitors will want to do it next year.


    If Disney reaches a point that they could not sell a ticket because the price is too high, they will offer more “deals” then you can shake a stick at. Look back over time. In years that the economy was down or for some reason their numbers were down they offered amazing deals and more people could afford to go. Yes it is supply and demand. Demand goes down, price goes down.
    I'm sure the tents didn't come from nowhere. Just walk around the parks around 2-3 PM and look at how burned out and tired some people are. The problems with those tents are simple to see, though. 1. They scream "I'm entitled and elite!" a little too loudly. 2. For only being for entitled, elite people, they were ugly. 3. They were out in the open too much, reminding everybody how much Disney was charging for them.

    Cabanas on Castaway Cay are essentially the same thing, for the same cost, but they are not in the middle of a theme park so they took a little easier.
     

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