If Contemporary Villas become a reality...how will points be offered?

[CindyTx]

Based on the rumor post below, it appears that CR may actually happen. How will points be offered? Will current DVC members be offered points first before the general public? What has happened in the past when a new resort was offered?

If CR is offered, I predict a pre-construction sell out!

Any one else?

Have a great day!!!

 

[Doctor P]

I don't think it will necessarily be a pre-construction sell out when offered. Here is a possible scenario:

1) Premium points per villa: e.g., 200+ points for a week in a studio at the holidays.

2) Premium price per point (i.e., above SSR's price at the time)

OK, here's where it gets controversial and speculative:

3) SSR is removed from existing DVC and becomes 1st resort in new DVC II with the Contemporary being the second property. Neither set of owners can use their points at existing DVC resorts, but may use them at either SSR or Contemporary. Note that this scenario will increase the demand for more DVC II on-site resorts, therefore helping to perpetuate DVC beyond 2042 in a viable fashion without having to mess around with "re-declaring" the non-SSR resorts. This also opens the possibility of DVC resorts around the world to supplement.

4) Only current SSR owners get the opportunity for the presale of Contemporary, thereby propping up demand for SSR, too.

 

[shantay1008]

OK, here's where it gets controversial and speculative:

3) SSR is removed from existing DVC and becomes 1st resort in new DVC II with the Contemporary being the second property. Neither set of owners can use their points at existing DVC resorts, but may use them at either SSR or Contemporary. Note that this scenario will increase the demand for more DVC II on-site resorts, therefore helping to perpetuate DVC beyond 2042 in a viable fashion without having to mess around with "re-declaring" the non-SSR resorts. This also opens the possibility of DVC resorts around the world to supplement.

4) Only current SSR owners get the opportunity for the presale of Contemporary, thereby propping up demand for SSR, too.

Would current SSR owners get grandfathered in and still be able to use their points at all DVC resorts? That seems rather hugely unfair to change the rule like that. I mean, I like SSR but part of the reason we bought into DVC was that we had options to stay all over the place.

 

[FreeTime]

There is no guarantee that SSR owners or and other resort owners can exchange into another resort. Again, this is the reason to buy where you want to stay.

I did tell DH that I wanted to start saving to be able to buy into Cont DVC if it is a reality because I think that it will be difficult to exchange into. However, I have to consider the potential higher dues for monorail maint., and location, so I may just rent a regular room when we get a hanking for a monorail resort.

 

[shantay1008]

There is no guarantee that SSR owners or and other resort owners can exchange into another resort. Again, this is the reason to buy where you want to stay.

I did tell DH that I wanted to start saving to be able to buy into Cont DVC if it is a reality because I think that it will be difficult to exchange into. However, I have to consider the potential higher dues for monorail maint., and location, so I may just rent a regular room when we get a hanking for a monorail resort.

I know you're right about the "buy where you want to stay" idea. And we'd honestly be perfectly happy staying at SSR or renting points to stay at a different property if we wanted a change.

I guess I fell victim to marketing when we bought in and just focused on the idea of all these great places we could stay and didn't listen very well when the guide said (whispered? mumbled?) that some day we wouldn't actually be able to stay anywhere other than SSR. The upside of a DVC II might be that this concept will be a lot more clear: Here are the two resorts you get to stay at and there are no other options, so don't even get any ideas about staying at BCV unless you want to pay cash.

 

[kmermaid]

I was wondering what the rooms would look like. If they are anything like the reno rooms at the CR I think I would just be fine with staying somewhere else! Those rooms sound way to mod for me.

 

[Dean]

Based on the rumor post below, it appears that CR may actually happen. How will points be offered? Will current DVC members be offered points first before the general public? What has happened in the past when a new resort was offered?

If CR is offered, I predict a pre-construction sell out!

Any one else?

Have a great day!!!

They generally offer pre-construction with an impending price increase. I seem to recall that VWL, BCV and SSR were all offered initially to members only then later to the public but my brain is failing me a little and I'm not certain on this portion.

 

[Doctor P]

I know you're right about the "buy where you want to stay" idea. And we'd honestly be perfectly happy staying at SSR or renting points to stay at a different property if we wanted a change.

I guess I fell victim to marketing when we bought in and just focused on the idea of all these great places we could stay and didn't listen very well when the guide said (whispered? mumbled?) that some day we wouldn't actually be able to stay anywhere other than SSR. The upside of a DVC II might be that this concept will be a lot more clear: Here are the two resorts you get to stay at and there are no other options, so don't even get any ideas about staying at BCV unless you want to pay cash.

Here is the part that most people don't understand and that is very critical to buying any kind of real estate: oral representations really don't mean anything (and officially don't mean anything). The contract you sign and agree to abide by is in the Public Offering Statements (POS) and other legal documents that were given to you in writing at the time of purchase. This is PART of the reason for the 14 day cooling off period. There are a lot of clauses in there that protect the developer, and one of them is that they basically can remove the resort from DVC and you would only have rights to your home resort. What is important is not what your guide says, but what the written documents commit to. Anyway, I was just having fun speculating (and not trying to be funny, but rather just kind of provocative in raising the issue). I've got to believe that something will change to split off the longer term resorts or to split off a new set of even longer term resorts. But, I am often wrong, and am prepared to be this time, too, LOL.

 

[Doctor P]

They generally offer pre-construction with an impending price increase. I seem to recall that VWL, BCV and SSR were all offered initially to members only then later to the public but my brain is failing me a little and I'm not certain on this portion.

I'm almost positive that is true on VWL and BCV, but my memory is less as certain about the presale on SSR as to whether it was restricted at first.

 

[shantay1008]

Thanks for your post about the fine print, Dr. P. Do you think most people buying into DVC know about the "removing DVC resorts from inventory" part? I wonder if it would really make a difference in their purchasing decision.

I'm glad we bought at SSR for a host of reasons, but gosh I like the idea of staying at other places, too. I'm really quite thrown that it's even an issue, like we're trespassing at the other resorts. I mean, I get what you said about how the developer protects itself, but am I wrong in thinking that we were encouraged to enjoy all the resorts? And not just orally, but in the Vacation Planner and other materials as well?

 

[CarolA]

Would current SSR owners get grandfathered in and still be able to use their points at all DVC resorts? That seems rather hugely unfair to change the rule like that. I mean, I like SSR but part of the reason we bought into DVC was that we had options to stay all over the place.

Um... this is a RUMOR. Personally it's the only thing I have read about the CR resorts that I don't agree with. I don't think Disney is going to do that since they are also still in the business of reselling the other resorts.

Yes, it's in the contract that they can remove resorts. I think that the negative backlash would give them publicity they don't want and I just don't forsee this happening. The contract has EVERY possible thing the lawyers could think of. It protects Disney for example, if HH or VB just get washed away by Hurricane XYZ and Disney decides not to rebuild. They remove it from the list, settle with the current owners and they are gone.

Now, I agree with the MASSIVE point increase for CVR. I don't see a week in a studio for 90 points there. Actually it might even be in Disney's interest to LET all of us use CR. If you use your normal 1 week in a 2 BR allotment for five days at CR in a studio, Disney gets to rent the 2 BR at a premium if no other member picks it up.

 

[Dean]

Um... this is a RUMOR. Personally it's the only thing I have read about the CR resorts that I don't agree with. I don't think Disney is going to do that since they are also still in the business of reselling the other resorts.

Yes, it's in the contract that they can remove resorts. I think that the negative backlash would give them publicity they don't want and I just don't forsee this happening. The contract has EVERY possible thing the lawyers could think of. It protects Disney for example, if HH or VB just get washed away by Hurricane XYZ and Disney decides not to rebuild. They remove it from the list, settle with the current owners and they are gone.

Now, I agree with the MASSIVE point increase for CVR. I don't see a week in a studio for 90 points there. Actually it might even be in Disney's interest to LET all of us use CR. If you use your normal 1 week in a 2 BR allotment for five days at CR in a studio, Disney gets to rent the 2 BR at a premium if no other member picks it up.

I can't imagine DVC separating out a new resort at least not until near the end of the contracts. And I'd expect the points structure to be the same for the same room types but we shall see.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for your post about the fine print, Dr. P. Do you think most people buying into DVC know about the "removing DVC resorts from inventory" part? I wonder if it would really make a difference in their purchasing decision.

I'm glad we bought at SSR for a host of reasons, but gosh I like the idea of staying at other places, too. I'm really quite thrown that it's even an issue, like we're trespassing at the other resorts. I mean, I get what you said about how the developer protects itself, but am I wrong in thinking that we were encouraged to enjoy all the resorts? And not just orally, but in the Vacation Planner and other materials as well?

One should read the literature and/or do extensive investigation before buying. As for feeling like a trespassor, or a second class citizen, it really comes down to one's internal clock. The reality is that if you stay at a resort you don't own, you are second on the list or lower. But if everyone is friendly and you get what was promised and appropriate, you should be comfortable. I think too many people take the philosophic discussion of why certain people bought at X resort as a personal affront when they should not. With the exception of a few posts from non BCV members stating that BCV members shouldn't have pool hoping privileges if other members couldn't use the BCV pool, I don't recall any personal type posts on this subject. But chastising DVC for selling SSR with the idea of those buyers using the points elsewhere is not a reflection on the buyer, but on DVC. Of course one way to deal with this complaint, if it mushrooms, is to extend the home resort window.

 

[CarolA]

Yes, but the point structure is different at the different resorts. A studio at OKW costs at top season is 147 points, a preferred view at BWV for the same season is 181 points. So at CR, I can see it being over 200.

From my point of view, I am all for it... I have NO desire to stay at CR or on the monorail. Did it once didn't see the big need!

So... that means it may be easier for me to get into BCV!

 

[Dean]

Yes, but the point structure is different at the different resorts. A studio at OKW costs at top season is 147 points, a preferred view at BWV for the same season is 181 points. So at CR, I can see it being over 200.

From my point of view, I am all for it... I have NO desire to stay at CR or on the monorail. Did it once didn't see the big need!

So... that means it may be easier for me to get into BCV!

Maybe I should have been more clear. I would expect the points to be the same as BCV, VWL and preferred view BWV given the same unit type and situation. They can increase the income with the cost per point if need be.

 

[shantay1008]

I realize I sounded a little petulant. Sorry. I'm going to sound like I'm about 12, but I think my remarks stem from the fact that, while these boards are great fun and I've learned tons of stuff, I find myself gritting my teeth when I read the posts that say, "I'm so lucky to have bought at BCV!" or "Isn't it the best feeling in the whole wide world when you own at the very best resort (not SSR) ever?" "Oh, those poor saps over at SSR...too bad they have to take a (shudder) bus to the parks."

Omigosh...I am 12. Clearly, I need to ignore the peer pressure, much as I'm teaching my little ones to do. ["My GameBoy's better than yours."]

 

[Doctor P]

Maybe I should have been more clear. I would expect the points to be the same as BCV, VWL and preferred view BWV given the same unit type and situation. They can increase the income with the cost per point if need be.

I agree that this is the most likely possibility. I think it really is going to depend on exactly how they structure the resort with respect to what kind of point structure they are going to use. I think they have a ton of options, and I think that is PART of the hold up in deciding when to go forward. For example, if they merely retrofitted existing buildings rather than building anew, they may find the possibility of either a single type of unit or even all studios to be something they can more profitably do or turn around quickly. If this whole thing plays out it will be very interesting to see how it does play out.

 

[Doctor P]

I realize I sounded a little petulant. Sorry. I'm going to sound like I'm about 12, but I think my remarks stem from the fact that, while these boards are great fun and I've learned tons of stuff, I find myself gritting my teeth when I read the posts that say, "I'm so lucky to have bought at BCV!" or "Isn't it the best feeling in the whole wide world when you own at the very best resort (not SSR) ever?" "Oh, those poor saps over at SSR...too bad they have to take a (shudder) bus to the parks."

Omigosh...I am 12. Clearly, I need to ignore the peer pressure, much as I'm teaching my little ones to do. ["My GameBoy's better than yours."]

There is not a single DVC resort that isn't subject to criticism and not a single one that doesn't receive fervent praise. That is one of the virtues of DVC--there are lots of options, with a good chance that one of them has a special way of meeting your needs and preferences. We own at HH, OKW, and BCV. Each of the resorts has its high points and low points, and depending on what we desire at a given time they each fit our needs well. We split our last stay between OKW and BCV and I actually think we had a better vacation by being able to use each of the resorts for its strengths. That said, I didn't really like our stay at BWV but I also understand that it might have been the PARTICULAR experience we had that time and I also can see why some people like the resort. The only things that I do pay attention to are things that are reasonable expectations that are not being met and could be met (e.g., transportation problems).

 

[greenban]

There is not a single DVC resort that isn't subject to criticism and not a single one that doesn't receive fervent praise. That is one of the virtues of DVC--there are lots of options, with a good chance that one of them has a special way of meeting your needs and preferences. We own at HH, OKW, and BCV. Each of the resorts has its high points and low points, and depending on what we desire at a given time they each fit our needs well. We split our last stay between OKW and BCV and I actually think we had a better vacation by being able to use each of the resorts for its strengths. That said, I didn't really like our stay at BWV but I also understand that it might have been the PARTICULAR experience we had that time and I also can see why some people like the resort. The only things that I do pay attention to are things that are reasonable expectations that are not being met and could be met (e.g., transportation problems).

That's all well and good Dr. P. but lets all be honest adults here, SSR stinks, Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah-Na! My resorts are all better than anything at SSR. Plus don't we all know that SSR stand for Selling to Silly Rejects?

Hold on.... My wife is waving to me.....

....


.....



Oh, it seems we own 370 points at SSR, (How'd did I get suckered into buying them?)


As I was saying, 12 extra years really makes a lot of sense, and the newer furnishings at SSR are really nicer than the furnishings anywhere, and gosh, once the landscapping is mature it will really be great!


So, all of you who own at the other older, nearly condemed DVC's Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck to you!

Oh no my wife is waiving to me.....

Never mind, I'm gonna just go and clean the cat litter....

-Tony

 

[Dean]

I realize I sounded a little petulant. Sorry. I'm going to sound like I'm about 12, but I think my remarks stem from the fact that, while these boards are great fun and I've learned tons of stuff, I find myself gritting my teeth when I read the posts that say, "I'm so lucky to have bought at BCV!" or "Isn't it the best feeling in the whole wide world when you own at the very best resort (not SSR) ever?" "Oh, those poor saps over at SSR...too bad they have to take a (shudder) bus to the parks."

Omigosh...I am 12. Clearly, I need to ignore the peer pressure, much as I'm teaching my little ones to do. ["My GameBoy's better than yours."]

I guess it all boils down to how one looks at it, which is why I stated previously that one had to chose to be offended or not. IMO, if one loves resort A and hates resort B, that is not bashing resort B even if one goes on to say why they hate SSR. ALL DVC resorts have plusses and minuses. And even when one says they'll never stay at resort B, it's because they have other options, not because resort B is horrible. IMO, the only way to bash a resort is to get personal about the owners there or to be factually untrue in the representation.

The main issue that gets batted around here is the fact, and I consider it a fact, that DVC has sold certain resorts and members have bought certain resort simply to get into the system and use the points primarily at non home resort points. I think many assume that I think this is bad when I post it but I don't. I think it's neutral as long as the buyers understand what they are getting and, more importantly, what they are not. But I do feel DVC has misled a certain segment of the buyers in this area. Even if 100 people post they own SSR, love SSR and never intend to stay anywhere else; I also consider it factual that a higher percentage of SSR owners have bought there to use elsewhere rather than the reverse. It is also my belief that some have conned themselves into thinking it's best for them when it may not be because it is their home resort. The other portion is that some had to decide between the extra 12 years as well as buying from DVC vs resale. I'm sure there are people that own at BCV, VWL and BWV that intend to stay at SSR only, I know that's true for OKW. But it's the balance that's at issue and given SSR large size, even a minor shift will be very important for those trying to get the smaller resorts at the 7 month window. Same can be said for VB, HH and OKW (esp newer buyers there). And even if a CR happens, it will have a minor impact, if any, on this issue. Those of us who learn the system, plan ahead and are willing to take advantage of the options will continue to be successful with any option more often than not.