I wrecked Valentines Day before breakfast

[mickeyboat]

I should add that I think the holiday may have just brought it all to a head.

Yes. Holidays are filled with emotionally-charged expecations, it's no wonder things come to a head!

 

[Soulsearching]

There is a big part of me that is feeling sorry for her. A young mother, working, raising kids, feeling like you do everything for everyone and nothing for yourself. Trying to make a holiday the best you can for everyone else.

Ya kinda lose yourself at times, been there done that.

Then it only takes one thing to set you off. Sitting alone on the couch eating dinner without the family is a cry for help.

She is losing herself and is taking it out on you. Help her help herself.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

Well for one what I wrote has nothing to do with "traditional roles" or who is capable of doing what. People are capable of buying their own flowers too, but they usually don't, because that isn't the point. Women can just as easily have physical touch be their love language, and men acts of service, these things have no gender barriers. Some couples have the same love languages and have no issues, some have different ones and pick this up naturally. Others need a lot of help in this area and do not understand why they are working so hard and their spouse doesn't see it, and THOSE people are who I was referring to. Pat yourself on the back for how great your marriage is, but a lot of people's aren't and what I posted is a VERY common problem in our culture and seems very relevant to this particular discussion. And FWIW my marriage sounds alot like yours from everything you've written, so I get your perspective 100%, but with the learning what I have for becoming a marriage and family therapist I can see the other side too. For some it just doesn't work out like that without a ton of learning and effort on the part of both.



Well if he didn't listen to her about the flowers why would you assume he's been listening to her for the other 18 years? How do you know she hasn't been telling him for years and finally given up because he never responded? My point with giving the example of what it looks like 10 years down the road is that by the time it hits this point the reactions are NOT logical, they are not valid in porportion to the direct situation at hand, and it is not clear what they are REALLY about. They are built on a long time of not having needs met in the relationship, and are just a symptom of a much bigger problem. If you tell your dh your needs and he works to meet them, and vice versa this would never apply to you. But unfortunately not all relationships are like that.

I do agree with you on some, and I do agree that I don't understand why, if she has told him she hates red roses, why he would get them anyway. BUT, again, I just think that if he is so worried about how he messed up with her and is willing to look for other ways to make it up to her with a dvd/pedicure coupon, and he is willing to come on here and ask for advice and stress about it, then he doesn't seem like the type of husband who doesn't meet his wife's needs. I know a lot of men who do nothing around their house, leave their wives to pretty much do it all, and if their wives are mad, so what, they don't care. I know none of them would be posting on a board asking for advice on how they messed up and how to make it better, because if he doesn't care like you think he doesn't, it wouldn't even bother him if his wife was mad.

Did you see the part where he posted about giving her time to herself after he gets home, eating with the kids and letting her have peace and quiet? It doesn't sound to me like he doesn't try, and yes, NONE of us know what goes on behind closed doors, but you are looking at 'what ifs' IMO, because all we are going with is what he said on here, not the psychological hidden meanings that may or may not be going on at home.

I can see your point, MAYBE he is a deadbeat husband, who knows? But IMO, deadbeat husbands don't go out of their way to suprise their wives with flowers BEFORE breakfast, in fact, most don't suprise their wives at all.

All I know, most men (Most men, NOT ALL) I have come across don't think like us. They don't understand even after you have beaten it into them your likes and dislikes. It's not about not caring, it's about them not being as sentimental as us. Look at us woman, most of us cry at weddings, babies, commercials, I can't tell you the last time I have seen my husband cry. To him a flower is a flower and a gesture of love is a gesture. Woman look at the hidden meaning of everything and seem to over analyze everything, not all women but a lot of them. Not every man is romantic, to them they have made the effort. To those men who do over think it, hooray for them and their women, for the rest of us, we take what we get because we know thier intentions behind them and we know it is done out of love. To me I have known a lot of jerks in this world, so if someone I know who loves me buys me something that I don't like, yeah I am going to be like what the heck was he thinking? Maybe he was having an off day, maybe he was thinking about something I had said one day, maybe I mentioned something about this at one point and that is why he bought it for me. Who knows, lord knows that men make no sense to me, so I don't even pretend to understand them. To me she just sounded selfish and snotty and ungrateful. Plus we don't know her, she could be one of those woman who says weeks before her birthday don't throw me a party, then day of gets angry because you didn't throw her a party. She could be one of those woman who has driven him crazy in the past saying don't buy me flowers, they are a waste of money, but is just saying that and really does expect them. I know a lot of woman like that. I tell DH the same thing, to me they are a waste of money, but I secretly love when he buys them for me. And I am sorry, flowers, all kinds are beautiful, how can someone really hate roses, unless they are allergic???

But again, I still can't get over the fact that she had specifically told him she doesn't really like flowers and hates red roses, so why would he specifically buy them? Like I said, I think it was just him going with the whole Valentine's=red roses=equal love and passion. STill, why buy them if you know she hates them? Of course now she is going to over think everything and now think that her hate of red roses=his inability to listen to her and love her. Don't really get that. It's like me telling my husband 600 times to put his clothes in the hamper. I HATE it when he does this and he knows that this angers me to no end. So now am I supposed to assume that his refusal to throw his clothes in the hamper=his inability to listen to me and love me? Get real, this woman needs to grow up and go to counseling, by what he is telling us, there is something wrong with her and she is unhappy.

If she is upset over the bigger picture of their relationship, then fine, but we are not debating that, because we don't know what else is going on, there are always 2 sides to every story. You are saying that it's possible that he hasn't met her physical and mental needs, well what if those needs can never be met no matter how hard he tries? What if she is one of those high maintenance woman that need need need and always is mad over everything? How do you know it's not all her fault? Again, it all boils down to if she has a problem which is bigger than the flowers, fine, TELL him, or buy him a crystal ball. If it is just about the flowers, than she is ungrateful.

 

[mm_ja]

Hey, I think all guys will attest that you can never have too many tshirts and underware. As far as the game goes I am just speculating based on the fact that one DS got Jenga and the other got a Barrel Full of Monkeys.

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

Actually, I think most of us agree there is something more going on here. Her completely irrational reaction to his gift proves that in my book.

ITA!!!

 

[RadioNate]

No one said that. You are totally missing the point. If you are fullfilled in other areas of your relationship a gift is just a gift and you are grateful for the effort and intention. If you are not, it is soo much more and it is hard to see the effort and the intention through the pain, usually what is seen instead is reinforcement of the negative things one was already feeling. Is that right? No, but it what happens. Notice how many women said, I could never be mad at my dh for that he is so great in so many other areas. That is the difference, they are already fullfilled in the relationship outside of the gift, the gift was just a bonus.

I think people are getting caught up in the fact that it was a material gift and we are trained to accept those with gratitude no matter what the circumstance. What if it was another act of love? Change "gift" to "help around the house." What if all the wife wanted was some help around the house and her dh kept giving her positive affirmation instead. Now there is nothing at all wrong with positive affirmation, it is another act of love and it is a great and wonderful thing to give. But it's not what the wife needs. So wife is telling her dh "I would love some help with the laundry this weekend." Dh responds "you are so great, I am so impressed with all you do around the house, you are an awesome wife and I love you soo much... BUT he sits his butt on the couch all weekend and doesn't help with laundry. Eventually she isn't going to see the good intentions behind his words anymore. The words will ring hollow and she will stop believing them, because she isn't feeling loved. WHY? Because to her love is shown in acts of service... helping around the house. Words are nice but TO HER they don't equal love.

Now when he is helping around the house and her love que is filled she's not going to notice (or if she does she won't mind) when he slips in the acts of services area, and any other area she gets is just a bonus because she is already feeling very fullfilled and loved in the relationship. And when he occassionally gives her positive affirmations instead of helping around the house she will not be upset but will thank him and be truly grateful for them, because she understands that is how HE expresses love. And hopefully whenever he does fill her up by doing those acts of service she returns the favor by giving him what HE needs, the positive affirmation. If this continues both will feel very fullfilled and little things will be just that, little things that will not sidetrack the relationship.

But say he hasn't helped around the house for 10 years. Her love que is pretty near empty. She could care less about his positive words because she doesn't believe them anymore... afterall why would he keep telling her how great she is and leave his damn socks on the floor when he knows she hates that. To her that obviously means he doesn't mean it, he is trying to shut her up. By now, every teeny tiny thing he leaves around the house sends her over the edge, because it is yet another sign that he doesn't love her or understand what she needs. So she nags him unceasingly about the house which makes him feel unloved because he thrives of positive affirmation, and the less love he feels the less likely he is to make the effort around the house doing the acts of service and so the spiral goes on down. Again is it right, no but it IS what happens in a relationship where a partner is unfullfilled. Things get way out of porportion and rather than build up their partner in the area they need, they use it to bring them down to what they are feeling. Its a very unhealthy pattern.

And these types of situations can be true with either partner. Men are just as susceptible to feeling unhappy if they aren't recieving love in their language. If a husband expresses love through physical touch and the wife through acts of service and positive affirmation, well she can tell him how hot he is and how wonderful he is and she can do everything around the house to help him, but if she doesn't throw him down on the bed once in awhile he is going to eventually feel unappreciated and unloved and he WILL come to resent his sparkling clean house and believe his wives words are fake because if they were true than why doesn't she want him physically.

Spouses should attempt to understand the language their spouse speaks, so they can recogonize the true intention with which the spouse is giving the gifts. If a spouse understands that for his/her partner positive affirmation is the highest expression of love they will be more grateful when they recieve it, EVEN if it isn't what equates love to them. But the other spouse should also make the effort to speak in their partners language. If both spouses take the position that because what they are doing is good (and both ARE doing good things), but neither is going to attempt to do the good things the other spouse needs by speaking their language, then NEITHER will feel fullfilled in the relationship. They will both keep making all this effort, but in the wrong areas.

It is amazing how much effort people put in to doing what their spouse doesn't want or need (because it is what they themselves would want or need). Then they feel unappreciated, frustrated, and eventually give up trying to please their spouse because they believe they can't ever make them happy. If they had put even half that effort in listening to what their spouse was telling them they needed all along and doing that, their spouse would feel fullfilled and in turn would want to fullfill them. They would both be satisifed and these tiny things wouldn't seem so large anymore.

I don't have my Marriage and Family License yet, but I am earning my hours and it won't be too long till I do (I am able to do supervised marital counseling now). This is a common pattern, and it is the stupid type of thing that if let go long enough destroys marriages.

I think I love you

 

[Mickey'sMainMami]

Ok, I did say “I knew she wasn’t a big fan of flowers”, however she is also not completely averse to them either. She like flowers, she likes to be given flowers from time to time. I guess a better way to say it (of course communicating doesn’t seem to be my strong point but) is to her getting flowers in a nice gesture but she could have done without them. My deal was that the flowers were sort of an extra add on to the two gifts I had planned on giving her later in the day. If I was only going to purchase one present and nothing else I would have avoided flowers altogether. Should I have gotten yellow tulips instead of red roses, yes. Should I have avoided flowers alltogether, maybe. I guess since I was thinking that the flowers were a secondary present the exact type wasn’t important. Maybe in hindsight I should have kept the flowers until after work and left the gift certificate and DVD out on the kitchen table. As I type it I know I will probably get slammed for this but so be it. I am realizing that in part to me the flowers were not near as important a part of the gift giving process as the other two presents were. In my mind those were what I was looking forward to giving to her and what I knew she would enjoy. The flowers were just an oh by the way here are some flowers. Again I guess I should not have let those be the first thing she saw. Or maybe I should have left a note saying Here is something to start your day with, I look forward to giving you your other gifts later. In this case it seems the presentation was a big part of it. Anyway, I still do appreciate everyones input and insight. As painful as the past two days have been I have learned and enjoyed what you all have to say.

So what was the outcome of those 2 gifts? I apologize that I have not read all of the posts on here, so I apologize if I missed what happened. Was she happy about the other 2 gifts you gave her, or did the roses just completely ruin it all?

Also, what are you going to do now? Are you going to try and go to therapy, because it sounds to me and everyone else that there are some other issues that need to be addressed, and her irrational behavior over flowers is not normal.

 

[mickeyboat]

Hey, I think all guys will attest that you can never have too many tshirts and underware. As far as the game goes I am just speculating based on the fact that one DS got Jenga and the other got a Barrel Full of Monkeys.

You are very sweet to be sticking up for your wife while we flame her. You obviously love her very much. Good luck to you.

Denae

 

[beckmrk04]

I'll look for your poll.

To me "not a fan of" means it would not be my first or second choice but it is still a valid gift.

Oooh. I disagree. I'm not a fan of country music. I don't like it. I'm a BIG fan of chocolate; LOVE it.

 

[WDSearcher]

I do agree with you on some, and I do agree that I don't understand why, if she has told him she hates red roses, why he would get them anyway.

But again, I still can't get over the fact that she had specifically told him she doesn't really like flowers and hates red roses, so why would he specifically buy them?

STill, why buy them if you know she hates them?

Except that she never said she hated red roses. Those were words put in the woman's mouth by other posters. Read the original post again and the following posts by the OP. The OP stated that he knew roses weren't her favorite, but it was Valentine's Day and red roses say "I love you" and so he got them. He said that she doesn't LOVE flowers, but isn't really averse to them either.

I don't mean to pick on this one thing, but it's driving me bonkers that everyone keeps repeating the line about her hating red roses when the guy's wife never said that!

 

[mm_ja]

Well she told me thank you and I really think she likes what I got here as far as those two items go. She was quite down beat saying that she had an upset stomach and was tired. We had a few rough spots this morning but I just talked to her and she seemed fine asked me about my schedule for tomorrow because she may go and use her gift certificate. As far as what comes next, I have to figure that out. I know in a perfect world I could go home and explain to her that I would like for us to see a therapist either individually or as a couple or as both, because I am concerened about her and us and how all of these issues are impacting our family. In reality I cant do that because in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistence. I know something has to be done and I am convinced counseling is the answer I just have to figure out the best way to bring it up and the best way to more or less sell it to her. I wish I had an answer on how to do that right now but I dont.

 

[RadioNate]

I'll look for your poll.

To me "not a fan of" means it would not be my first or second choice but it is still a valid gift.

yes we need a poll because to me it means - I don't like something, at all but I'm being nice and trying not to out right say I hate it.

 

[Soulsearching]

I suggest you make an appointment and go yourself first and then you will be given the skills to make that suggestion to her.

Good Luck.

 

[mm_ja]

Except that she never said she hated red roses. Those were words put in the woman's mouth by other posters. Read the original post again and the following posts by the OP. The OP stated that he knew roses weren't her favorite, but it was Valentine's Day and red roses say "I love you" and so he got them. He said that she doesn't LOVE flowers, but isn't really averse to them either.

I don't mean to pick on this one thing, but it's driving me bonkers that everyone keeps repeating the line about her hating red roses when the guy's wife never said that!

I appreciate you mentioning this. I have been hesitant to because I dont want to seem defensive. If I had made the decision to buy her flowers any of the other 364 days of the year I would not have picked out red roses, but on Valentines Day I did.

 

[WDSearcher]

Well she told me thank you and I really think she likes what I got here as far as those two items go. She was quite down beat saying that she had an upset stomach and was tired. We had a few rough spots this morning but I just talked to her and she seemed fine asked me about my schedule for tomorrow because she may go and use her gift certificate. As far as what comes next, I have to figure that out. I know in a perfect world I could go home and explain to her that I would like for us to see a therapist either individually or as a couple or as both, because I am concerened about her and us and how all of these issues are impacting our family. In reality I cant do that because in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistence. I know something has to be done and I am convinced counseling is the answer I just have to figure out the best way to bring it up and the best way to more or less sell it to her. I wish I had an answer on how to do that right now but I dont.

If she won't go with you, there's nothing wrong with going to counseling by yourself. You already know that you have issues in the communication department, so some individual therapy might help YOU, in which case you'll be better able to help HER. And if she sees you improving, she may be less resistant. Might want to think about that. Good luck!!

 

[mm_ja]

I suggest you make an appointment and go yourself first and then you will be given the skills to make that suggestion to her.

Good Luck.

Agreed, except for when it comes time to pay the bill and I have to explain why I need a certain amount of money or where that money went. All of our finances are joint, and while I do have some discretionary spending money, I dont think I have enough to do that with out it being noticed. Does that make sense? In other words she would know about any appointments I made before hand so I could pay the doctor, and then a discussion would more than likely begin that would not end well. Again in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistance usually over a combination of we dont have the money or something similar to we dont need counseling you just need to use your head.

 

[RadioNate]

Agreed, except for when it comes time to pay the bill and I have to explain why I need a certain amount of money or where that money went. All of our finances are joint, and while I do have some discretionary spending money, I dont think I have enough to do that with out it being noticed. Does that make sense? In other words she would know about any appointments I made before hand so I could pay the doctor, and then a discussion would more than likely begin that would not end well. Again in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistance usually over a combination of we dont have the money or something similar to we dont need counseling you just need to use your head.

ok, I've seen the wife's side all along but you guys need this. Does she want you to leave her? Because it WILL get to the point that you are both miserable.

Your wife sound very insecure. Trust me I've BTDT and it isn't a fun way to live (for either spouse). Depression and insecurity eat away at your soul.

Check w/your insurance. Most cover some therpy or look into a reduced cost program.

I wouldn't hide it from her, that will just cause more problems. Be honest that you need this. You are a grown up, while you'd like her support, you don't need her permission.

 

[singingpixie]

Agreed, except for when it comes time to pay the bill and I have to explain why I need a certain amount of money or where that money went. All of our finances are joint, and while I do have some discretionary spending money, I dont think I have enough to do that with out it being noticed. Does that make sense? In other words she would know about any appointments I made before hand so I could pay the doctor, and then a discussion would more than likely begin that would not end well. Again in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistance usually over a combination of we dont have the money or something similar to we dont need counseling you just need to use your head.

I dont' think you should hide it from her- the suggestion for individual therapy came from her resistance from going herself. She can't prevent you from going on your own, especially when you're wanting to go so you can work toward fixing your relationship.

 

[RayaniFoxmur]

Agreed, except for when it comes time to pay the bill and I have to explain why I need a certain amount of money or where that money went. All of our finances are joint, and while I do have some discretionary spending money, I dont think I have enough to do that with out it being noticed. Does that make sense? In other words she would know about any appointments I made before hand so I could pay the doctor, and then a discussion would more than likely begin that would not end well. Again in the past suggestions of counseling have been met with resistance usually over a combination of we dont have the money or something similar to we dont need counseling you just need to use your head.

She REALLY needs to come to the realization that this is something that you need. That you want to learn how to communicate better and deal with any problems that you are having. Continuing to go without it is just going to cause far FAR more problems than it solves. I'm sorry if she doesn't like it, but luckily many insurance policies do cover some type of counciling.

If that doesn't work, do you have a pastor you can talk to? I've found that many times just going in and talking with the pastor of our church is very helpful in the long run. But really, something needs to give here.

 

[mm_ja]

I wouldnt want to keep it a secret. I may have misread the statement. I guess in my mind convincing her that I need to go solo would be as tough a sell as us going together so why go through that twice. I have looked into costs and our current insurance is pretty good on the issue. It covers 50% after our annual deductable is met.