I think I want a divorce...

[Tiger926]

I don't care if everyone sees it my way or not. What bothers me is the guilt that people sometimes directly (or inadvertently) put on a spouse to hang in there, don't throw it all away, give it another try, try to understand, try this....there is a never ending list of what one spouse should be doing and a non-existent list for the other spouse. Everytime someone says "OP should do what she want" there is an immediate "but" that follows. I am simply trying to tell OP that I know exactly how she feels and she should make up her own mind, without any BUTS. She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.

But you just decided that she should, "...walk away free and clear."

She may not agree with you, and may feel guilty and regret her decision due to feeling nervous or scared for a future as a single woman with kids. Us presenting other options to consider, is the same as you presenting the other option of walking away free and clear. They are all different options that she may have to consider when making this difficult decision.

None of the people I know who divorced had that mentality whatsoever. There was doubt, anxiety and fear, all of which are normal. Which is why the OP probably started this thread in the first place.

Tiger

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I don't care if everyone sees it my way or not. What bothers me is the guilt that people sometimes directly (or inadvertently) put on a spouse to hang in there, don't throw it all away, give it another try, try to understand, try this....there is a never ending list of what one spouse should be doing and a non-existent list for the other spouse. Everytime someone says "OP should do what she want" there is an immediate "but" that follows. I am simply trying to tell OP that I know exactly how she feels and she should make up her own mind, without any BUTS. She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.

But you just decided that she should, "...walk away free and clear."
She may not agree with you, and may feel guilty and regret her decision due to feeling nervous or scared for a future as a single woman with kids. Us presenting other options to consider, is the same as you presenting the other option of walking away free and clear. They are all different options that she may have to consider when making this difficult decision.

None of the people I know who divorced had that mentality whatsoever. There was doubt, anxiety and fear, all of which are normal. Which is why the OP probably started this thread in the first place.

Tiger

Notice the difference in the quotes? You quoted me as "walk away free and clear." when I said "She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.". I didn't decide anything, as if I have that kind of power over someone on the internet. And she may not agree with me, which is fine. We all know it's her decision and no matter how strongly she feels she will always wonder if it was the right thing.

 

[Disney Doll]

I never said she needs to stay, nor that she should get a divorce, as that isn't my decision to make.

My point has been that depression is a demon, and if you don't really have a true understanding that it's a medical condition that when left untreated (if indeed he is clinically depressed), will kill relationships, of which marriages are the number one victim. I wanted to present this to her as another option as to perhaps why her husband has been like this for pretty much their whole relationship.

This thread has shown that some people truly don't have an understanding of just how debilitating and toxic untreated depression can get, and so as someone who has been through it with many people, I was presenting another side to it, the side that knows it is a medical condition that if left untreated will have a life of its own. People who are struggling with that, usually cannot make the decision to get help, and may need some type of intervention (been there, done that). Not saying the OP should do this, just presenting another side to how depression works in a marriage as someone who has experienced it.

Some of us are willing to stay and work out as many solutions as possible to help the depressive spouse, while others are not. I would respect whatever decision OP made as it's her life, not mine.


Tiger

It's also fair to say that depression only gets treated if the person suffering from it chooses to accept treatment.

Even in a situation where you (universal you, not specifically you) can force someone to be treated for a period of time (involuntary admission to a psych facility) the time eventually comes when they are no longer at that level and the decision is theirs as to whether or not theyare going to continue treatment, take their meds etc.

My feeling is that I can only help someone so much, and then the rest is up to them. Someone liek the OP, who has been carrying most of the burden for thismarriage for a long time, may no longer be able or willing to do so, may no longer care about whether or not her husband's depression gets treated, may not have the energy to try and work with him, force him, urge him , go with him to doctors and so forth because she's bbeen doing it all and doing it alone for a number of years.

Sickness can be an explanation regarding behavior for all of someone's life, but it can only be an excuse for a certain period of time. 10+ years??? The statute of limitations regarding how long he can wallow in his depression without attempting to do anything may be coming to an end.

 

[goofyernmost]

Want an idea how long the problem lasts? Want to know what the carryover is? My wife's problems bubbled to the surface when our youngest daughter was 4 years old. She is now 36 years old. Over the years it was like a rising and falling wave. Some periods of time, things were OK others they were horrific.

If anyone tried to tell her to get help...she would go ballistic. Not against the label depression, that was socially acceptable, she had a problem with possibly finding out that there were some other psychotic possibilities as well. Those would not have been socially acceptable.

She managed to keep her mental state pretty well hidden from everyone except me and others that she lashed out at. She could be in a spit emitting rage and if one of the girls walked into the room, it would stop instantly. She could, at the time, control it, but only when she wanted too.

As time passed, it just got worse. Instead of trying to find someone to help her out of it, she went from Doctor to Doctor until she found someone that would tell her that she was OK, the rest of the world was wrong. That one she stuck with and even took their advice.

After the kids finished college they got married within two years of each other. That is when SHE decided that she no longer wanted to be married to someone like me, that her shrink confirmed, was bringing her down and trying to control her.

She moved out, got an apartment, filed for a divorce and started anew, supposedly. Within three years she was broke, could not keep a job because of her anger filled attitude and fortunately for her, was by then old enough to draw social security. She became more and more estranged from the family. Finding excuses why she couldn't attend a grandchild's birthday party or family gathering.

About three years ago, our youngest daughter moved to NC. A year or so later our older daughter decided to bring her family down here as well. A few months later, I retired and also relocated to be with the family. She was left, in Vermont with no one. No one thought that was a problem because she had pretty much separated herself from everyone anyway.

Our girls were worried about her, rightfully so, and asked if she would like to move down here as well so she could be with family. She agreed and they set about making it happen. They found a really nice one bedroom apartment in senior housing and told her to get ready to move. She did nothing. She didn't pack, she didn't try and make sure her financial crutch followed her, nothing. She left everything for someone else to do. I'm sick, was her reasoning. I can't do this. Physically, she is as strong as a bull, but mentally...it is gone.

Shortly after getting her into her apartment, a colossal task I might add, she became more and more unwilling to do anything for herself. Eventually it got her hospitalized and diagnosed as unable to care for herself. She is now in an assisted living facility and, I'm here to tell you, if she doesn't get assisted with everything she isn't doing it. She is conscience of everything going on around her and has even stated that "these people get paid to take care of me, let them do it." She will not take on the smallest tasks of even bathing or changing clothes unless one of the girls get upset with her and basically shames her into taking care of it.

The struggle goes on and on. It is no longer directly mine, but all of us wonder what might have happened if we had stepped up a few years ago and tried again to make more of a difference. My belief is...nothing different would have happened. What was left of the original, independent and hard working woman that I feel in love with and married, was gone. I am not even able to recognize this new one. The girls keep feeling that if they push her she will get motivated to do for herself. I don't think so, but they don't want to give up on their mother. Even if they were never able to get close to her, they still love and care about her, but it is a painful process.

One in a fit of frustration one day said to me..."Why did you ever marry that woman?" I responded by saying..."if I hadn't you wouldn't be here to ask that question and I'd be talking to a stranger".

The moral of this story is that a spouse cannot make miracles happen. They must protect their own sanity and that of their children. Unlike a reparable or a terminal illness that will eventually become a non-issue...this will not without the proper care. The only person that can do that is the one with the problem, no one else. To say stay is saying...you're life and your happiness is of no value...you are here to care for this individual even though they are unwilling or unable to make any effort to fix themselves. It seems like a pretty unfair thing to ask. Ruin a whole families life, to support one person. The trade off is not equal. It may not be the individuals fault but it isn't the spouses either.

 

[Tiger926]

Notice the difference in the quotes? You quoted me as "walk away free and clear." when I said "She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.". I didn't decide anything, as if I have that kind of power over someone on the internet. And she may not agree with me, which is fine. We all know it's her decision and no matter how strongly she feels she will always wonder if it was the right thing.

Huh? It's the same thing - I quoted what you said about walking away free and clear.

You are making a judgment that she should divorce and not look back, are you not?

If not, then I have no idea what you are talking about?

It's also fair to say that depression only gets treated if the person suffering from it chooses to accept treatment.

Even in a situation where you (universal you, not specifically you) can force someone to be treated for a period of time (involuntary admission to a psych facility) the time eventually comes when they are no longer at that level and the decision is theirs as to whether or not theyare going to continue treatment, take their meds etc.

My feeling is that I can only help someone so much, and then the rest is up to them. Someone liek the OP, who has been carrying most of the burden for thismarriage for a long time, may no longer be able or willing to do so, may no longer care about whether or not her husband's depression gets treated, may not have the energy to try and work with him, force him, urge him , go with him to doctors and so forth because she's bbeen doing it all and doing it alone for a number of years.

Sickness can be an explanation regarding behavior for all of someone's life, but it can only be an excuse for a certain period of time. 10+ years??? The statute of limitations regarding how long he can wallow in his depression without attempting to do anything may be coming to an end.

Yup, we already determined this. But, the reason I brought it up is because the OP had doubt, and with doubt might come not truly understanding what the heck might be causing your spouse's issues.

That is the whole point of looking at other options, if that is how you make decisions. If your decision making process is different than that, then you may just divorce without looking back, and that is another choice to make as well.

I am someone who is solution focused, so I look at all possible causes of behaviour, and I pretty much exhaust all avenues, as that is how I work. That doesn't work for all, and that is ok. I teach at-risk students, and if I didn't do this, some of them would be dead, so I approach this kind of stuff in a different manner. Doesn't mean I don't value the other spouse, believe she should stay, nor does it mean I'm favoring the hubby. Just felt it necessary to present another possible option to the behaviour profile presented as it seemed similar to what I have experienced with depressive people. I didn't see much in any of the OP's posts about them seeking help for these issues, so I presented that as a way for her to take another look at the problem.

She absolutely has the right to divorce, no questions asked, and I haven't said otherwise, Tiger

 

[luvmy3]

I do not think she meant OPs hubby did not recognize that he had depression (as he actually mentioned to her that he thought he did), but she meant that he has not recognized what damage depression has done to his family and marriage, should that be what his issue is.
Tiger

I assume that the many conversations over the years were about just that. If he didn't recognize what he was doing to his family, he was probably told what he was doing, then there really is no excuse for not seeking help.

It's also fair to say that depression only gets treated if the person suffering from it chooses to accept treatment.

Even in a situation where you (universal you, not specifically you) can force someone to be treated for a period of time (involuntary admission to a psych facility) the time eventually comes when they are no longer at that level and the decision is theirs as to whether or not theyare going to continue treatment, take their meds etc.

My feeling is that I can only help someone so much, and then the rest is up to them. Someone liek the OP, who has been carrying most of the burden for thismarriage for a long time, may no longer be able or willing to do so, may no longer care about whether or not her husband's depression gets treated, may not have the energy to try and work with him, force him, urge him , go with him to doctors and so forth because she's bbeen doing it all and doing it alone for a number of years.

Sickness can be an explanation regarding behavior for all of someone's life, but it can only be an excuse for a certain period of time. 10+ years??? The statute of limitations regarding how long he can wallow in his depression without attempting to do anything may be coming to an end.

 

[bethy]

I don't care if everyone sees it my way or not. What bothers me is the guilt that people sometimes directly (or inadvertently) put on a spouse to hang in there, don't throw it all away, give it another try, try to understand, try this....there is a never ending list of what one spouse should be doing and a non-existent list for the other spouse. Everytime someone says "OP should do what she want" there is an immediate "but" that follows. I am simply trying to tell OP that I know exactly how she feels and she should make up her own mind, without any BUTS. She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.

The only person the OP has control over is the OP. Plus she is the one who posted. This is about her deciding what is best for her. That's why the discussion engages her and not him.

I totally agree that even if it is indeed untreated depression that she's facing that may very likely be too big a demon to face or cope with.

 

[Sanchez]

Notice the difference in the quotes? You quoted me as "walk away free and clear." when I said "She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.". I didn't decide anything, as if I have that kind of power over someone on the internet. And she may not agree with me, which is fine. We all know it's her decision and no matter how strongly she feels she will always wonder if it was the right thing.

You can parse all you want. Your first words on this thread were:

I say get out now. It won't get easier and it won't get better. Take it from me, I'm still there (unhappy marriage).

It does not seem as if you were overly concerned about OP's choices. You are correct in that you don't have the power to decide anything. I still take the position that when someone is in a difficult life situation it is careless to throw around advice like you have.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

The cause of his lousy attitude for the last 10+ years may or may not be depression, it doesn't change that he is not being a good husband and father.

 

[jobhunter]

OP, I am so sorry you are in this situation. It sounds unbearable and I am sure many would have left already.

Us there anyone else in the picture? As in, anyone else you have feelings for even if not acted upon. Something you said made me wonder.

I wish you the best in deciding what to do going forward.

 

[ols386]

The moral of this story is that a spouse cannot make miracles happen. They must protect their own sanity and that of their children. Unlike a reparable or a terminal illness that will eventually become a non-issue...this will not without the proper care. The only person that can do that is the one with the problem, no one else. To say stay is saying...you're life and your happiness is of no value...you are here to care for this individual even though they are unwilling or unable to make any effort to fix themselves. It seems like a pretty unfair thing to ask. Ruin a whole families life, to support one person. The trade off is not equal. It may not be the individuals fault but it isn't the spouses either.

That's what I was thinking the entire time I was reading this full post.

Must have been tough on the whole family.

 

[goofyernmost]

Another little detail that might be worth mentioning is that unlike a situation where a person has a physical illness that threatens his or her life. Outsiders can intervene. They can call for medical services and once they have responded they can evaluate the situation and most of the time transport the patient to medical care with or without there direct consent. Usually they wouldn't fight it though.

Mental Illness treatment, although called an illness, can only be "forced" if they display a real threat to themselves or others. Even then it requires some heavy duty legal finagling to pull it off because it has to be proved or witnessed. As long as a person with a mental illness is not displaying any form of violence, they cannot be forced to seek help. They are not perceived as a threat to anyone. The reason...so you cannot have your mother-in-law committed just because she's a pain in the butt. It used to happen. The laws are designed to protect people from wrongful commitment which is a good thing. But in situations like the ones described in this thread the pain it causes others is not taken into account. The logic is that you can walk away from it if it is bad enough.