I think I want a divorce...

[Tiger926]

That may be the case but the OP has stated that she has had many conversations with him about it over the years. If he doesn't recognize it himself that is one thing, but it seems that the OP has made him aware of how his behavior is effecting the family. Saying he doesn't recognize it can't be used as an excuse for not getting help at that point.
And FTR, he stated he was depressed at one point, so either he was lying, or he does recognize it.

I do not think she meant OPs hubby did not recognize that he had depression (as he actually mentioned to her that he thought he did), but she meant that he has not recognized what damage depression has done to his family and marriage, should that be what his issue is.

Tiger

 

[okeydokey]

Good people can have chronic medical conditions that mess with their emotions and ability do to what is right, completely beyond their control.

It is not beyond his control. He is choosing to do nothing to help himself or his family. That is an active choice.

My friend's ex is the same way. After he divorced her, he got a job. He was capable all along, he just didn't want to. Yes, he was diagnosed with depression and he chose not to do anything about it. He was a bad husband. She is now feeling good about herself and her life, more at peace than she has been in years.

 

[mrsklamc]

It is not beyond his control. He is choosing to do nothing to help himself or his family. That is an active choice.

I don't know about OP's husband specifically, but yes, it is possible for it to be beyond the depressed person's control, and not an active choice.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Whether OP's husband is depressed or not (and BTW, he mentioned it ONCE), where is the support for her? Why is she made out to be the bad guy -- an uncaring spouse who's trying to take the easy way out? When is enough enough? Should she spend the rest of her life miserable until she herself is depressed and needs medication? Would it be okay for her to leave then, once he's completely destroyed her self esteem and broken her?

At the end of the day, IT'S HIS ISSUE. She has spend far too many years trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

 

[mrsklamc]

Ever done something irrational or not been able to think clearly due to hormones? When pregnant or experiencing PMS maybe? Or made a poor decision or been crabby because you didn't get enough sleep? Those are things that happen even to people whose brains are working normally. Or maybe you've known a diabetic that got crabby when they didn't eat? Depression is caused by a chemical that regulates hormones. It affects digestion, sleep, cognitive function, mood, the ability to think clearly and rationally...my point is, he may not be capable of making an active choice or even knowing that one needs to be made.

 

[mrsklamc]

Whether OP's husband is depressed or not (and BTW, he mentioned it ONCE), where is the support for her? Why is she made out to be the bad guy -- an uncaring spouse who's trying to take the easy way out? When is enough enough? Should she spend the rest of her life miserable until she herself is depressed and needs medication? Would it be okay for her to leave then, once he's completely destroyed her self esteem and broken her?

At the end of the day, IT'S HIS ISSUE. She has spend far too many years trying to help someone who doesn't want to be helped.

There has been a TON of support for her. I only even began responding because so many of the initial responses were overwhelmingly to just leave. AND she's here to support her side, he is not.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Ever done something irrational or not been able to think clearly due to hormones? When pregnant or experiencing PMS maybe? Or made a poor decision or been crabby because you didn't get enough sleep? Those are things that happen even to people whose brains are working normally. Or maybe you've known a diabetic that got crabby when they didn't eat? Depression is caused by a chemical that regulates hormones. It affects digestion, sleep, cognitive function, mood, the ability to think clearly and rationally...my point is, he may not be capable of making an active choice or even knowing that one needs to be made.

Yes. And when people exhibit certain behaviors because of it, they are held accountable. When is he held accountable? If I have post partum depression and kill my baby, I either go to jail or am forced to get counselling and medication. Is that what it takes -- the extreme? Not everything in life is excused because you have problems. Should he be allowed to be verbally abuse because he is depressed? We could go round and round all day and I'll never think differently. Everyone in life has choices -- even not making a choice is still a choice.

 

[Maleficent53]

Your story could be mine, just 20 years later. I also was supporting our family, 2 small children, a husband not working (also had a drinking problem). After 14 years of marriage I decided if he was going to act like I was a single parent, I would be a single parent. One day I packed a bag for me and the kids, moved to my sisters, found an apartment, and filed for divorce. I have never looked back and it was the best thing that ever happened (for both of us).

The reality that I would leave made him stop drinking (still sober after 20 plus years) and get a job. I had custody of the kids but never denied him access to them. I never bad-mouthed their dad to them. They are now grown, no scars from coming from a split family, and my ex actually is a good friend of all my family and attends holiday/family functions as part of our group.

Just want to point out that divorce is not always bad.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

There has been a TON of support for her. I only even began responding because so many of the initial responses were overwhelmingly to just leave. AND she's here to support her side, he is not.

Oh boo hoo for him. Maybe he's off on some other website seeking support for his side. Just because he's not here doesn't mean we can't form an opinion with what we're given. It's not a trial. And honestly all I see are people telling her what a crappy spouse she is and making her feel like she should be ashamed for even considering leaving him because he's depressed (which we don't even know to be the case).

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Your story could be mine, just 20 years later. I also was supporting our family, 2 small children, a husband not working (also had a drinking problem). After 14 years of marriage I decided if he was going to act like I was a single parent, I would be a single parent. One day I packed a bag for me and the kids, moved to my sisters, found an apartment, and filed for divorce. I have never looked back and it was the best thing that ever happened (for both of us).

The reality that I would leave made him stop drinking (still sober after 20 plus years) and get a job. I had custody of the kids but never denied him access to them. I never bad-mouthed their dad to them. They are now grown, no scars from coming from a split family, and my ex actually is a good friend of all my family and attends holiday/family functions as part of our group.

Just want to point out that divorce is not always bad.

Right!

Maybe she needs to leave him so he can get well.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't think people are making her as the bad guy. They are simply suggesting that depression is a consideration and are further suggesting that she consider all options before making a decision. I do not think anyone has stated that she should not proceed with divorce under any circumstance. Some have correctly stated that we do not know the whole story.

Many have definitively made him out to be bad guy. Perhaps this the case. This goup seems to consider every statement she had made as absolute truth. It seems as if they support the "kick him to the curb" notion as it clearly fits their marital circumstance.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I don't think people are making her as the bad guy. They are simply suggesting that depression is a consideration and are further suggesting that she consider all options before making a decision. I do not think anyone has stated that she should not proceed with divorce under any circumstance. Some have correctly stated that we do not know the whole story.

Many have definitively made him out to be bad guy. Perhaps this the case. This goup seems to consider every statement she had made as absolute truth. It seems as if they support the "kick him to the curb" notion as it clearly fits their marital circumstance.

And the same could be said for those who are laying all their cards on this being depression. I speak from my own experiences and take the OP's feelings and story into account. Doesn't matter whether he is what she says he is or not, it's how she feels about it and is entitled to those feelings. And knowing you have had enough and are at yoru personal endpoint, there's no point in staying. When you're done, you're done. Doesn't matter what got you to that point, you're done. For the sake of everyone in the family, it's time to move along. Personally, I have not, but everyone in my family knows what the deal is. No one will be blindsided when the end comes.

 

[Sanchez]

Oh boo hoo for him. Maybe he's off on some other website seeking support for his side. Just because he's not here doesn't mean we can't form an opinion with what we're given. It's not a trial. And honestly all I see are people telling her what a crappy spouse she is and making her feel like she should be ashamed for even considering leaving him because he's depressed (which we don't even know to be the case).

You are seeing what you want to see based on your own marital situation. Why is it so important to you that everyone see it your way?

 

[Tiger926]

Oh boo hoo for him. Maybe he's off on some other website seeking support for his side. Just because he's not here doesn't mean we can't form an opinion with what we're given. It's not a trial. And honestly all I see are people telling her what a crappy spouse she is and making her feel like she should be ashamed for even considering leaving him because he's depressed (which we don't even know to be the case).

Who the heck said she was a crappy spouse? Goodness, I don't think you are part of the same thread we are.

You seem to have very strong opinions on this. We get that, but no one has sad she was a crappy spouse, in fact, we've said that if he is depressed, and he sure is exhibiting those symptoms, then it most definitely isn't her fault, and that she has the right to make the choice that is best for her. But, she still should consider that he may be depressed, and that is what she has been fighting all of these years. She has doubt and guilt, so considering other options, may help her feel better about her final decision, whatever that may be.

I don't think people are making her as the bad guy. They are simply suggesting that depression is a consideration and are further suggesting that she consider all options before making a decision. I do not think anyone has stated that she should not proceed with divorce under any circumstance. Some have correctly stated that we do not know the whole story.

Many have definitively made him out to be bad guy. Perhaps this the case. This goup seems to consider every statement she had made as absolute truth. It seems as if they support the "kick him to the curb" notion as it clearly fits their marital circumstance.

Yup, and I find most hubby posts on the DIS seem to go this route. The hubby seems to always be the bad guy, and the wife is constantly being told to get a divorce or kick him out, when in fact, that may or may not be best. And I suspect it's because these stories hit very close to home for some...

There are some of us who have spent considerable time on here trying to point out other factors that may be at play, and for good reason.

I am sure the OP is long gone, but I so wish her the clarity and strength to make this all imporant decision.

Tiger

 

[Disney Doll]

Ever done something irrational or not been able to think clearly due to hormones? When pregnant or experiencing PMS maybe? Or made a poor decision or been crabby because you didn't get enough sleep? Those are things that happen even to people whose brains are working normally. Or maybe you've known a diabetic that got crabby when they didn't eat? Depression is caused by a chemical that regulates hormones. It affects digestion, sleep, cognitive function, mood, the ability to think clearly and rationally...my point is, he may not be capable of making an active choice or even knowing that one needs to be made.

For 10+ years?

Sorry, but short-term difficulty is one thing. 10+ years of difficulty is another.

 

[Tiger926]

For 10+ years?

Sorry, but short-term difficulty is one thing. 10+ years of difficulty is another.

If indeed it is depression, and is left untreated, you can have difficulties your whole adult life. So, 10 years is absolutely possible. The people I know who have gotten treatment for depression, had symptoms for about 10 years, as they thought that is just the way I am, were very scared to seek treatment or didn't really understand it's true impact on the people around them.

Tiger

 

[bethy]

For 10+ years?

Sorry, but short-term difficulty is one thing. 10+ years of difficulty is another.

But if it's been 10 years of spinning your wheels, fighting the same battles, trying the same things over and over unsuccessfully to fix the same problem then it might as well have been 1 year as far as effectiveness. Doing the same thing over and over is going to get the same result - for 1 year or 10 years.

Only 10 years later of the same discussions, fights and frustrations is going to allow the issues, patterns and both parties habits and behaviors to become more entrenched. Even though they are not working.

And sadly, 10 years of the same thing over and over will tear down a marriage and a person and I totally understand that and truly feel for the OP. She is clearly soooo tired and discouraged and I don't blame her one bit. She likely doesnt' have the resources left over at this point to try something new. I don't think I likely would either.

 

[Disney Doll]

If indeed it is depression, and is left untreated, you can have difficulties your whole adult life. So, 10 years is absolutely possible. The people I know who have gotten treatment for depression, had symptoms for about 10 years, as they thought that is just the way I am, were very scared to seek treatment or didn't really understand it's true impact on the people around them.

Tiger

I understand that depression is a lifelong diagnosis.

But she has been dealing with this for 10 years with what sounds like little or no cooperation from her husband.

I'm all for saving marriage, coping, carrying on etc. But marriage involves 2 people and if one of them chooses not to change, then ultimately it is doomed. There has to be something offered from the other side, and in this case, it does not sound like that is happening.

I recently watched a friend go through this with a bipolar spouse. 15 years of hell. He stayed until the last child was out of college. His reason was that he wanted to act as the buffer between her & the kids. He figured if he wasn't around, the kids would wind up messed up from her craziness. So he hung in there for 15 years, in what was a sham of a marriage. She finally agreed to seek help, spoke the the counselor a couple of times, agreed to take ONE medication, took it for a while and decided she didn't need it, that everyone else had the problem and she was the only sane one.

No...I don't begrudge people who are married to someone with untreated psych issues if they eventually need to leave....

 

[PrincessKsMom]

You are seeing what you want to see based on your own marital situation. Why is it so important to you that everyone see it your way?

I don't care if everyone sees it my way or not. What bothers me is the guilt that people sometimes directly (or inadvertently) put on a spouse to hang in there, don't throw it all away, give it another try, try to understand, try this....there is a never ending list of what one spouse should be doing and a non-existent list for the other spouse. Everytime someone says "OP should do what she want" there is an immediate "but" that follows. I am simply trying to tell OP that I know exactly how she feels and she should make up her own mind, without any BUTS. She needs to walk away free and clear, if that's what she chooses to do.

 

[Tiger926]

I understand that depression is a lifelong diagnosis.

But she has been dealing with this for 10 years with what sounds like little or no cooperation from her husband.

I'm all for saving marriage, coping, carrying on etc. But marriage involves 2 people and if one of them chooses not to change, then ultimately it is doomed. There has to be something offered from the other side, and in this case, it does not sound like that is happening.

I recently watched a friend go through this with a bipolar spouse. 15 years of hell. He stayed until the last child was out of college. His reason was that he wanted to act as the buffer between her & the kids. He figured if he wasn't around, the kids would wind up messed up from her craziness. So he hung in there for 15 years, in what was a sham of a marriage. She finally agreed to seek help, spoke the the counselor a couple of times, agreed to take ONE medication, took it for a while and decided she didn't need it, that everyone else had the problem and she was the only sane one.

No...I don't begrudge people who are married to someone with untreated psych issues if they eventually need to leave....

I never said she needs to stay, nor that she should get a divorce, as that isn't my decision to make.

My point has been that depression is a demon, and if you don't really have a true understanding that it's a medical condition that when left untreated (if indeed he is clinically depressed), will kill relationships, of which marriages are the number one victim. I wanted to present this to her as another option as to perhaps why her husband has been like this for pretty much their whole relationship.

This thread has shown that some people truly don't have an understanding of just how debilitating and toxic untreated depression can get, and so as someone who has been through it with many people, I was presenting another side to it, the side that knows it is a medical condition that if left untreated will have a life of its own. People who are struggling with that, usually cannot make the decision to get help, and may need some type of intervention (been there, done that). Not saying the OP should do this, just presenting another side to how depression works in a marriage as someone who has experienced it.

Some of us are willing to stay and work out as many solutions as possible to help the depressive spouse, while others are not. I would respect whatever decision OP made as it's her life, not mine.


Tiger