I think I want a divorce...

[The Mystery Machine]

She stated she signed them up for counseling and he went for 2 sessions and stopped He is a grown, you can't make adults do anything they don't want to. She led the horse, he didn't want a sip.

Right. Tiger wants to believe that everyone needs, wants, or can be helped.

Tiger not everyone can be helped. It is the reality of life you have to accept.

If you have not had experience with people that are unable to be helped then I can understand why you don't get that.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

No, I can read and comprehend all posts.

Based on some of your statements, I don't feel you truly understand it, but that is my opinion based on the experiences I went through. You have had different experiences, and that is ok.

As for cruelty, has every right to stand up for herself and demand better treatment. Absolutely! It's a two way street though as to some of us, it's cruel to walk away from a marriage without any attempt to save it. To some of us, it's cruel to walk away from someone who is ill.

We don't know if this pertains to OP, as we don't know to what extent she has tried to help her hubby or save her marriage, and that is what some of us are trying to encourage her to do, as there is doubt in her as to whether divorce is the right solution, or else she wouldn't have posted as she did.

Tiger

Again not everyone can be helped. Sometimes you have to walk away.

Now if you are walking away and leaving your children with the sick spouse then yes you are cruel.

Has it every occurred to you that it is crueler to keep your household sick?

 

[Jennasis]

Right. Tiger wants to believe that everyone needs, wants, or can be helped.

Tiger not everyone can be helped. It is the reality of life you have to accept.

If you have not had experience with people that are unable to be helped then I can understand why you don't get that.

My MIL.

She is currently suffering from pretty severe depression. She has no job. No income. No friends. Has chased away all family members with her hateful attitude and nastiness. She's going to lose her home cause she hasn't paid the mortgage in close to a year. REFUSES to look for a job. Any suggestions or offers of help are met with a laundry list of reasons from her why our idea won't work. She'd rather sit in her dark, depressing hovel of a home and be depressed. We know she's sick. We can't make her get help or get better.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I can't believe how many people expect a spouse to keep their children in a horrible situation for the sake of marriage vows. I can't believe how only ONE person in a marriage is expected to take their marriage vows seriously. I can't believe how one person is supposed to make all the sacrifices while the other can go on about their business as usual.

Personally, I only have one life to live and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste it on someone who doesn't give a crap about himself or anyone else. I will not sacrifice myself for someone who has treated me and our daughter like crap for years. No excuses, no depression, no crutches. Cruel? You may thing so. Try being the spouse of someone who has been disengaged and disinterested for YEARS. You're only seeing one side and so am I. It only takes a willingness to change and fight. When you've given up and expect everyone else to come along for the ride from hell you reap what you sow. A lonely, meaningless life.

 

[Tiger926]

Right. Tiger wants to believe that everyone needs, wants, or can be helped.

Tiger not everyone can be helped. It is the reality of life you have to accept.

If you have not had experience with people that are unable to be helped then I can understand why you don't get that.

Yeah, no I deal with it each and everyday, so yes I do deal with people who don't want to be helped, and in my experience, you have to provide more options than 1-2 counselling sessions. Counselling is one solution, but there are others. But I will agree that you have to know when to walk away, but for me, that is more than just attempting 1 session of counselling. OP's hubby is not living in a dark room like mother in law above, so it may be worth it for OP to see if there is hope for him as an individual, and as a couple.

If you only provide one option which you know is going to fail, then you have pretty much made of your decision as to what you should do. Should you keep a sick household, especially if children are involved? No. But if all you have to show for 15 years of marriage, is 1 counselling session as your attempt at seeing if the marriage or spouse is worthy of help, then that is nowhere near enough, IMHO.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I have been through it with someone who did not believe he needed help, and believed he could not change and was not worthy of change. If I had given up after 1 failed counselling session, I would be in a very different place right now.

Thanks, Tiger

 

[clutter]

Speak to a lawyer.
Speak to a counselor.
Speak to a finanacial planner.

Get your information and your ducks in a row before you do anything.
Give him one last shot at fixing himself and see if he takes it.

be aware that you might seriously end up paying alimony for a while, and if we women want equality, then it has to go both ways.

Make this decision very carefully, because it will have huge financial and emotional impact on your family.

Best advice in seven short lines.

"His response was "I'm busy looking for a job, which one do you want?" "

OP, this one really bothered me. Do you have trouble getting your kids to listen and to accept limits and boundaries? I think counselling may give you some insights as to why this comment from him wasn't the game-changer it should have been. The logic here is SO flawed. I'm thinking that you either let him have it, and it didn't make an impact (so either you are a bad arguer or it really is him), or you simply were too tired or felt too ineffective to even argue with him at this point. I think whichever path you chase at that point might give you insight as to the root of your problem. (He's lazy or you're too overwhelmed to bother or you are a doormat (sorry).) How would you have handled this if it was your kid? What would have been the result?

I get being so tired that you want to walk away. You should be. But I agree with the above, that maybe you give one last shot at fixing himself. And that you might want counselling yourself to ensure that you mean business (and you project that) when you deliver that ultimatum.

 

[Ginny Favers]

My MIL.

She is currently suffering from pretty severe depression. She has no job. No income. No friends. Has chased away all family members with her hateful attitude and nastiness. She's going to lose her home cause she hasn't paid the mortgage in close to a year. REFUSES to look for a job. Any suggestions or offers of help are met with a laundry list of reasons from her why our idea won't work. She'd rather sit in her dark, depressing hovel of a home and be depressed. We know she's sick. We can't make her get help or get better.

That sounds so familiar. My godmother was that way-- refused all help-- and even though we loved her so much and tried the best we could, we couldn't help her. She didn't want to be helped. It didn't end well.

Love isn't enough. It sounds like OP has bent over backwards trying to get him out of this. It's up to him to pull himself together. Sometimes there's a moment of clarity that comes with hitting rock bottom. Maybe divorce papers are just the wake-up call he needs.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

That sounds so familiar. My godmother was that way-- refused all help-- and even though we loved her so much and tried the best we could, we couldn't help her. She didn't want to be helped. It didn't end well.

Love isn't enough. It sounds like OP has bent over backwards trying to get him out of this. It's up to him to pull himself together. Sometimes there's a moment of clarity that comes with hitting rock bottom. Maybe divorce papers are just the wake-up call he needs.

And while that might be the case, who says even if he wakes up she hasn't had enough? That's what I meant in an earlier post about others guilting the spouse into staying. Not everything can be forgotten or forgiven. Sometimes it's just too late. If that's not the case for OP, then I wish her well and hope she gets whatever it is she's looking for that will be the best possible situation for her and her children.

 

[Lynne M]

Boy, this one is really hitting a nerve with me. I know three people who remind me in various ways of the OP's husband.

1. Person A: Suffers from severe clinical depression. Depression is made worse by unemployment, and also prevents this person from getting a job. Is fully aware that they have depression. Absolutely refuses to get help, despite repeated pleas from family, loved ones, friends over many years. Absolutely refuses to do anything at all to make their situation any better. Like Jennasis's MIL, "It won't work". Sits around the house and plays on the computer all day.

2. Person B: Almost certainly has adult ADD, but again, refuses evaluation or treatment. Is often referred to as 'large child' or 'lazy'. Frequently loses jobs due to lack of ability to complete work. Spouse does *everything*. Yard work, home repair, cooking, cleaning, dishes, care of children and pets, shopping - everything, while working full time. Sits around the house and plays on the computer all day.

3. Person C: Pure selfishness, in the shape of a person. Not interested in doing anything that isn't 'fun' for them, meaning no cleaning, no shopping, no help around the house. Spends all free time on their hobby, while complaining that spouse (who employs them in the company that spouse owns and runs) is not keeping house up to their standards, and complaining that spouse's company is not making enough money to pay for their hobby.

I think many people here might say that C's spouse should kick them to the curb because they're a freeloading louse, but would feel some sympathy for A, and maybe B, because they suffer from a medical condition. Many would argue that it would be unfair to abandon A & B, because they need help.

But I assure you, life with A & B is just as hellishly painful as it is with C.

Even if the OP's husband is ill, if he is refusing to get any help, at what point do you sacrifice your own health and sanity? At what point does the love die, because of all the times you've thought "if they loved me, they wouldn't do this to me?" If your spouse won't even open a garbage bag for you when you're pregnant and doing yard work, how much can they really care for you? What does it do to the kids, to see their father treating their mother this way, to see their parents in a loveless marriage? If they're too young to 'get' it now, believe me, as they get older, they will.

I'm sorry, OP, and I don't envy you the choice you have to make. If it were me, and I thought depression was the problem, I'd sit him down and say one last time, "I can't stay if things stay the way they are. It's killing me. You need help, and I'm not qualified to give it to you. If you don't get it, I will leave."

 

[Hannathy]

I absolutely agree with the idea that there's a huge double standard here; the responses would be totally different if it was an unemployed wife.

I'm also struck that nobody seems to take wedding vows seriously anymore! It gets tough...you just leave (or throw the other person out). To me, this might be an option if you don't have kids, but once you have kids, that just nixes the whole idea of divorce to me unless there's some abuse/safety issue.

I actually do agree with a trial separation, as it might spur the husband to get the help he needs. Being unemployed for two years is an incredible blow to anyone, but particularly men. All that constant rejection can be just paralyzing.

Instead of couples counseling, I'd encourage my spouse to get individual counseling. I'd also make a list of all the things I did, vs. the things he did, and ask him to justify the discrepancy.

I agree with you!! a lot.

No wonder the divorce rate is so high in this country. Wow it isn't a rose garden everyday? well then just walk away, the fact that you chose to have kids with this person, doesn't matter, I'm just not "happy"

I know in my 30 yrs with my DH we have both had our faults and some serious but we always were there for each other and worked thru the rough times, we didn't just walk away when the going got rough, actually that is when the other person needed us most.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I agree with you!! a lot.

No wonder the divorce rate is so high in this country. Wow it isn't a rose garden everyday? well then just walk away, the fact that you chose to have kids with this person, doesn't matter, I'm just not "happy"

I know in my 30 yrs with my DH we have both had our faults and some serious but we always were there for each other and worked thru the rough times, we didn't just walk away when the going got rough, actually that is when the other person needed us most.

And here's the root of the problem. You were lucky that your DH was there for you during your rough periods...

I wonder how forgiving everyone would be if OP's husband were a drug addict or alcoholic? Those are diseases as well, but most people realize that when the detriment to the family becomes too much, you need to cut the person loose to sink or swim on their own. You can't allow one person to sink the entire ship. There's nothing worse than being made to feel like you're the life preserver for the entire family. At some point you need to chose who to save and let the rest fend for themselves.

 

[Hannathy]

I wonder how forgiving everyone would be if OP's husband were a drug addict or alcoholic?

That is where the safety aspect comes in. If they were bringing dangerous drug dealers into my home, or being drunk and driving the kids, or leaving a stove on because they passed out, or becoming violent from the effects of the substance then that is a different thing.

I would also try to get them help, seriously try a few times before making any divorce decision.

 

[disney junky]

Might I suggest A Case Against Divorce by Diane Medved. I have read excerpts from the book. The title is obvious, but the you should understand that she details how in researching the topic, she expected to find that most people were happy having chosen to get out of a "bad" marriag, but she discovers that after really researching through interviews people who had gone through it, almost to a person, they regret the divorce. Your situation sounds eerily similar to one she cites in her book. I don't know whether the book would change your mind or your husband, but I do know that it presents the aftermath of divorce in a much more candid and clear manner than anything I had read before or since.

 

[jodifla]

I was speaking with a friend who went through a divorce, and she said she was doubting now whether it was the best move. Like the OP, she likes her husband and recognizes his good qualities. It also created a lot of issues with her children.

The grass isn't always greener.

 

[epcot.girl]

I've done this many times. The last time (last week).... my feet stuck to the kitchen floor, the counters were covered in crumbs, nothing was closed (open cereal boxes laying sideways on the counter), food on the floor, piles of dishes, debris on the carpet, toys EVERYWHERE, dirty clothes right in front of the front door, I won't go on. I walked past it all for a few days (this wasn't the first time) and I finally asked him when he thought he would getting around to cleaning up the mess. He was laying on the sofa watching TV and on his computer. His response was "I'm busy looking for a job, which one do you want?"

I would have absolutely hit the roof. OP, what was your response to this?

 

[goofyernmost]

Ok, now you are not reading posts. I said I clearly understand depression and it's consquences.

It does not mean you have to live with cruelty.

I saw that, and counselling really is difficult for most men, but 2 sessions really isn't enough to base a whole divorce on it, IMHO. As I and others have suggested, there are other ways to help, besides counselling.

No, I can read and comprehend all posts.

Based on some of your statements, I don't feel you truly understand it, but that is my opinion based on the experiences I went through. You have had different experiences, and that is ok.

As for cruelty, has every right to stand up for herself and demand better treatment. Absolutely! It's a two way street though as to some of us, it's cruel to walk away from a marriage without much attempt to save it. To some of us, it's cruel to walk away from someone who is ill.

We don't know if this pertains to OP, as she mentioned an initial counselling session, and that is all. She is confused about whether divorces is the right solution to this, or else she wouldn't have posted as she did.

Tiger

I understand what you are saying and if I hadn't I wouldn't have thrown away over 20 years of my life, sticking it out and hoping against hope that things would get better.

I also understand now that in the process of "caring about the depressed" individual everyone seems to have no concern at all for the other side of the story. The people that have to live with and deal with and sacrifice for someone else because he or she has an illness that they chose not to do anything about. Their motto, and believe me I have heard it over and over, is it's not my problem, I am who I am and you just have to deal with it.

I'm here to tell you that you can't and shouldn't always deal with it. I'm also here to tell you that you will never get that part of your life back. You will slowly go down the drain with them and you will bring your children with you. They may not be able to "help" what they are doing, but when they won't even try it makes it really difficult to watch your life slowly inch away.

I don't know what your exposure is...I'm thinking that you work in the mental health field or some sort of counseling. What I do know is that those on the outside may deal with it on a daily basis, but they very seldom deal with it 24/7. They at least get some respite from the problems. A spouse lives with it everyday, all day, all year for the rest of their time together. There is a big, big difference between an illness that nothing can be done about, like cancer, and this. There are many safety nets out there for people like her husband, there are almost none for her. She must put up with the mental strain because of a vow and her life has no importance. It's not important for her to be happy and enjoy life...it's all about him. Let's just worry about his needs.

I can't believe how many people expect a spouse to keep their children in a horrible situation for the sake of marriage vows. I can't believe how only ONE person in a marriage is expected to take their marriage vows seriously. I can't believe how one person is supposed to make all the sacrifices while the other can go on about their business as usual.

Personally, I only have one life to live and I'll be damned if I'm going to waste it on someone who doesn't give a crap about himself or anyone else. I will not sacrifice myself for someone who has treated me and our daughter like crap for years. No excuses, no depression, no crutches. Cruel? You may thing so. Try being the spouse of someone who has been disengaged and disinterested for YEARS. You're only seeing one side and so am I. It only takes a willingness to change and fight. When you've given up and expect everyone else to come along for the ride from hell you reap what you sow. A lonely, meaningless life.

Exactly!!

And here's the root of the problem. You were lucky that your DH was there for you during your rough periods...

I wonder how forgiving everyone would be if OP's husband were a drug addict or alcoholic? Those are diseases as well, but most people realize that when the detriment to the family becomes too much, you need to cut the person loose to sink or swim on their own. You can't allow one person to sink the entire ship. There's nothing worse than being made to feel like you're the life preserver for the entire family. At some point you need to chose who to save and let the rest fend for themselves.

That is where the safety aspect comes in. If they were bringing dangerous drug dealers into my home, or being drunk and driving the kids, or leaving a stove on because they passed out, or becoming violent from the effects of the substance then that is a different thing.

I would also try to get them help, seriously try a few times before making any divorce decision.

Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to live with a mentally unstable person? My wife once said to me while looking at our set of cooking knives, "you know I could easily kill you with one of those" and then giggled about it.

 

[SaraJayne]

I saw that, and counselling really is difficult for most men, but 2 sessions really isn't enough to base a whole divorce on it, IMHO. As I and others have suggested, there are other ways to help, besides counselling.



No, I can read and comprehend all posts.

Based on some of your statements, I don't feel you truly understand it, but that is my opinion based on the experiences I went through. You have had different experiences, and that is ok.

As for cruelty, has every right to stand up for herself and demand better treatment. Absolutely! It's a two way street though as to some of us, it's cruel to walk away from a marriage without much attempt to save it. To some of us, it's cruel to walk away from someone who is ill.

We don't know if this pertains to OP, as she mentioned an initial counselling session, and that is all. She is confused about whether divorces is the right solution to this, or else she wouldn't have posted as she did.

Tiger

Some people (both men and women) are just selfish and lazy and can't use "depression" as an excuse, even though they (or others) may try to by saying "oh, they're ill and need help".

No, they need a good kick in the ***.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Mmmmm, Salmon Roe. It looks delicious. Chomp. ZINNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!! OH NOS, I'M HOOKED!!!!!!

 

[Hannathy]

[B


Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to live with a mentally unstable person? My wife once said to me while looking at our set of cooking knives, "you know I could easily kill you with one of those" and then giggled about it.

There is a very big difference in someone who is suffering from a causal depression and someone who has other mental illness. Very big. He is depressed from loosing his job he isn't schizophrenic. He is more likely to hurt himself than her.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

There is a very big difference in someone who is suffering from a causal depression and someone who has other mental illness. Very big. He is depressed from loosing his job he isn't schizophrenic. He is more likely to hurt himself than her.

While that may be true (and we don't know that for sure), do you think that's a healthy environment for children to be raised in? I had an uncle who killed himself -- do you think it was healthy for his kids to know he did so in their house? How long do you stick around to find out how bad it is? Until something happens? And if he won't go for help how do you decide whether it's a causal depression or some othoer mental illness?