I think I want a divorce...

[bethy]

Your husband sounds a lot like the way mine has gotten at times, usually during periods of unemployment (in our case, his business declining precipitously, bringing prolonged "slow" periods where he basically sat on the couch and had his own little pity party). And there were times when I'd get frustrated, we'd talk, he'd be more like his old self for a short time, and then it would all fall right back into the same patterns.

A big part of the problem was that I was talking, but not listening. I never thought to ask him how I could help him get back to better habits, because frankly I was so sick of doing everything that I didn't really have much interest in doing anything else for him. But in the end that's what it took; us working together, rather than me expecting him to figure it out for himself, made all the difference. Simple things - looking over his resume for him, pointing out job opportunities (which was reassuring even though he wasn't ready to give up on his company), specific to-do lists rather than just expecting him to see what needed done, and most of all, putting more of the childcare on him because it reinforced something that he really feels good about at a time when he was focused on the aspect of life that had him feeling bad.

I'm not saying this would work for you. I never had any doubts that I wanted to stay married to DH, and even in the worst times divorce wasn't something I gave much thought to because I've always loved him. Without that, I don't think we'd have made it through. But if you do want to keep trying it is another perspective to consider. Good luck.

Gosh I love this post.

OP, I do think that since you love him and have young children together with him you might want to try something completely and truly *different* for a change - just to know you've tried everything. Doing the same things over and over for 10 years has not worked obviously and in fact has allowed both his bad habites *and* your bad habits to become entrenched. You two have developed deep patterns in your relationship that will take professional help to try and break.

I have experience with both depression and ADHD in our family and honestly either of those could be part of the root cause of your DH's issues. Those two conditions are treatable. So if he's open to treatment and actually pursues it then you might be surprised what a difference it could make.

But in a nutshell I think that if I were you I would try two things:

1. Firmly and lovingly insist that he seek professional help from a doctor. And outline the consequences if he doesn't. Be calm but follow through with those consequences.

2. Try and position myself as his supportive advocate in all of this - his partner - rather than as his adversary. Be the spouse you want him to be. Be on his side. But be firm and have boundaries and insist and follow up on the consequences of his choices.

I wish BOTH of you the best and I wish the best for your kids.

 

[Tiger926]

I understand what you are saying and if I hadn't I wouldn't have thrown away over 20 years of my life, sticking it out and hoping against hope that things would get better.

I also understand now that in the process of "caring about the depressed" individual everyone seems to have no concern at all for the other side of the story. The people that have to live with and deal with and sacrifice for someone else because he or she has an illness that they chose not to do anything about. Their motto, and believe me I have heard it over and over, is it's not my problem, I am who I am and you just have to deal with it.

I'm here to tell you that you can't and shouldn't always deal with it. I'm also here to tell you that you will never get that part of your life back. You will slowly go down the drain with them and you will bring your children with you. They may not be able to "help" what they are doing, but when they won't even try it makes it really difficult to watch your life slowly inch away.

I don't know what your exposure is...I'm thinking that you work in the mental health field or some sort of counseling. What I do know is that those on the outside may deal with it on a daily basis, but they very seldom deal with it 24/7. They at least get some respite from the problems. A spouse lives with it everyday, all day, all year for the rest of their time together. There is a big, big difference between an illness that nothing can be done about, like cancer, and this. There are many safety nets out there for people like her husband, there are almost none for her. She must put up with the mental strain because of a vow and her life has no importance. It's not important for her to be happy and enjoy life...it's all about him. Let's just worry about his needs.

I teach at-risk teens at an alternative highschool, so many of my students are depressed, bipolar, highly anxious, ODD and have even taught 2 schizophrenic students who thought I was evil. Besides that, have lived with this in my marriage, and have depression on both sides of our family, so I have lived with this 24 hours a day. It is beyond exhausting...

I rarely, if ever, if give up on people. I have been fortunate to have several people tell me I saved their lives, and so I know that my ability to help and support others is very important. I also know that I need to monitor my own needs too, and this is where the OP seems to be. I haven't once said that she deserves to be treated horribly, but if her hubby is depressed, than that is more than likely the depression talking, since she said this has been going on for 10 years. I am assuming they dated for a bit, and then were married about 5 years before this started. Why?

I also believe that more than a counselling seession is necessary before deciding to end a marriage in divorce. Counselling isn't for everyone, and definitely isn't helpful for all, but there may be other options that will work better in this situation, and I think those should be explored so the OP can make proper closure with it.

For me, when hubby was not well, I had to put my needs after his. When someone is ill, that is what we do. It does take balance, and in the OP's case, it sounds like she is doing double duty (been there, done that), but that is what happens in marriage. It sounds like she is trying to determine if she is at her breaking point yet...

I was beyond exhausted when going through this with DH, and too thought about divorce, many times, but ultimately, that would not have been the best option, especially since it was an in sickness time of our marriage, so he needed my support, as did our marriage.

Some people (both men and women) are just selfish and lazy and can't use "depression" as an excuse, even though they (or others) may try to by saying "oh, they're ill and need help".

No, they need a good kick in the ***.

Sure, there are different ways to give someone a kick. And regardless of whether you believe in depression or not, the OP's hubby said he was depressed, and that is all that is important. He has been acting depressed, and that is what my concern is here.

Gosh I love this post.

OP, I do think that since you love him and have young children together with him you might want to try something completely and truly *different* for a change - just to know you've tried everything. Doing the same things over and over for 10 years has not worked obviously and in fact has allowed both his bad habites *and* your bad habits to become entrenched. You two have developed deep patterns in your relationship that will take professional help to try and break.

I have experience with both depression and ADHD in our family and honestly either of those could be part of the root cause of your DH's issues. Those two conditions are treatable. So if he's open to treatment and actually pursues it then you might be surprised what a difference it could make.

But in a nutshell I think that if I were you I would try two things:

1. Firmly and lovingly insist that he seek professional help from a doctor. And outline the consequences if he doesn't. Be calm but follow through with those consequences.

2. Try and position myself as his supportive advocate in all of this - his partner - rather than as his adversary. Be the spouse you want him to be. Be on his side. But be firm and have boundaries and insist and follow up on the consequences of his choices.

I wish BOTH of you the best and I wish the best for your kids.

And I love yours! This is what I have been trying to convey the entire thread.

Awesome advice!! Tiger

 

[Andtototoo]

ISure, there are different ways to give someone a kick. And regardless of whether you believe in depression or not, the OP's hubby said he was depressed, and that is all that is important. He has been acting depressed, and that is what my concern is here.

I can't agree. My father was a lazy bum who would have sat on his rear watching tv all day if my mother let him get away with it. As it was, she was only able to get him off his butt half of the time. When they went to counseling, he said he was depressed. Eventually, the counselor told my mother that in her opinion, my father had figured out that if someone said they were depressed, then they were absolved of all responsibility and got to lay around the house and do nothing, while watching their spouse kill themselves to cater to them and carry all of the burden.

It was amazing how quickly my father got over his so-called depression when my mother walked out the door.

 

[Tiger926]

I can't agree. My father was a lazy bum who would have sat on his rear watching tv all day if my mother let him get away with it. As it was, she was only able to get him off his butt half of the time. When they went to counseling, he said he was depressed. Eventually, the counselor told my mother that in her opinion, my father had figured out that if someone said they were depressed, then they were absolved of all responsibility and got to lay around the house and do nothing, while watching their spouse kill themselves to cater to them and carry all of the burden.

It was amazing how quickly my father got over his so-called depression when my mother walked out the door.

Well, obviously that is where the OP comes in, as well as a professional. It is up to them to get to the bottom of whether or not this is legitimate or not. If hubby is pulling a fast one, then OP takes the next step, but if he indeed is depressed, and doesn't know how to ask for help, or can't, then this is where the other options we've been discussing are important.

Think I've been explaining this all throughout the thread...Tiger

 

[bethy]

Gosh I love this post.

OP, I do think that since you love him and have young children together with him you might want to try something completely and truly *different* for a change - just to know you've tried everything. Doing the same things over and over for 10 years has not worked obviously and in fact has allowed both his bad habites *and* your bad habits to become entrenched. You two have developed deep patterns in your relationship that will take professional help to try and break.

I have experience with both depression and ADHD in our family and honestly either of those could be part of the root cause of your DH's issues. Those two conditions are treatable. So if he's open to treatment and actually pursues it then you might be surprised what a difference it could make.

But in a nutshell I think that if I were you I would try two things:

1. Firmly and lovingly insist that he seek professional help from a doctor. And outline the consequences if he doesn't. Be calm but follow through with those consequences.

2. Try and position myself as his supportive advocate in all of this - his partner - rather than as his adversary. Be the spouse you want him to be. Be on his side. But be firm and have boundaries and insist and follow up on the consequences of his choices.

I wish BOTH of you the best and I wish the best for your kids.

I meant to add to my post that I'd recommend staying away from the "wedded bliss" thread and away from chick flicks, romance novels and the like. I rated my marriage a 7 in that survey. I have been with my DH for 22 years, married for 16 and have 3 young children. I will love him till the day I die but I don't always feel "in love" with him. It doesn't really matter.

When one of us is acting like a jerk, the other tries to give them grace first and foremost. I know personally that when I act like a jerk to DH there is a deeper, complex reason that I/we need to address - it's usually an indication i am in pain. Same for him. Him forgiving me is sometimes enough to snap me out of it in and of itself. Him believing in me FIRST helps me press forward and slowly make better choices.

Granted, there is a fine line between the above and choosing to enable someone. Maintaining firm boundaries is also crucial to a healthy relationship and we definitely do have to maintain those as well.

BTW, I personally dont' believe for one red second that more than 1 in 500 marriages in the real world rate a 10 or even a 9 unless my definition of "blissful" is waaaaaay different than most peoples'.

 

[Tiger926]

I meant to add to my post that I'd recommend staying away from the "wedded bliss" thread and away from chick flicks, romance novels and the like. I rated my marriage a 7 in that survey. I have been with my DH for 22 years, married for 16 and have 3 young children. I will love him till the day I die but I don't always feel "in love" with him. It doesn't really matter.

When one of us is acting like a jerk, the other tries to give them grace first and foremost. I know personally that when I act like a jerk to DH there is a deeper, complex reason that I/we need to address - it's usually an indication i am in pain. Same for him. Him forgiving me is sometimes enough to snap me out of it in and of itself. Him believing in me FIRST helps me press forward and slowly make better choices.

Granted, there is a fine line between the above and choosing to enable someone. Maintaining firm boundaries is also crucial to a healthy relationship and we definitely do have to maintain those as well.

BTW, I personally dont' believe for one red second that more than 1 in 500 marriages in the real world rate a 10 or even a 9 unless my definition of "blissful" is waaaaaay different than most peoples'.

Another great post!!

I totally agree about that post. I find the DIS world is absolutely unrepresentative of the real world that I see around me. I saw that most people were rating their marriages as 10 and I discussed it with my hubby, and he immediately shook his head.

In light of this thread, reading that thread for the OP could confuse her even more, as her situation sounds far removed from the long list of 10s that are prominent on that thread.

Tiger

 

[luvmy3]

Well, obviously that is where the OP comes in, as well as a professional. It is up to them to get to the bottom of whether or not this is legitimate or not. If hubby is pulling a fast one, then OP takes the next step, but if he indeed is depressed, and doesn't know how to ask for help, or can't, then this is where the other options we've been discussing are important.

Think I've been explaining this all throughout the thread...Tiger

Sorry I have to disagree, it is now up to the hubby to get himself help. If he has admitted he is depressed then he knows he needs it, it is not the OP's job to be his constant support, marriage is a partnership. Its his turn to step up and work on that partnership by getting himself mental help and taking more responsibility in the household. If at this point he isn't willing to step up, then the OP should definitely be stepping out.

Good luck OP

 

[Tiger926]

Sorry I have to disagree, it is now up to the hubby to get himself help. If he has admitted he is depressed then he knows he needs it, it is not the OP's job to be his constant support, marriage is a partnership. Its his turn to step up and work on that partnership by getting himself mental help and taking more responsibility in the household. If at this point he isn't willing to step up, then the OP should definitely be stepping out.

Good luck OP

Obviously it is up to the hubby to actually follow through with his appointment, but if it were me, I would be driving him there and going in with him.

My comment was in reference as to whether the depression was real or not. If hubby seeks professional help, and that is who can accurately diagnose him, then OP as the wife, can accept that diagnosis or not.

That is why I said it is up to both of them in regards to the professional making the diagnosis and the OP accepting that diagnosis or not. He may still be diagnosed with depression and OP may decide that divorce is still the best option, but at least they went so far as to getting professional help, which is more than either of them have done up to this point.

Tiger

 

[scbelleatheart]

Do people give up too easy? So sad for the OP.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Whats that saying: the definition of insanity is going the same thing over and over and expevting a different result.

 

[bethy]

Whats that saying: the definition of insanity is going the same thing over and over and expevting a different result.

Yes, that's been in the back of my mind, too. And it's why I think it would be smart of her to mix it up and try something different. Clearly whatever she is doing now is not working. Same for him. And I don't blame her for not feeling she can go on with things the way they are.

It will be hard to try some different things after 10 years but might be possible with professional help.

One different thing to try as far as the household responsibilities go is to sit down and evaluate each task. Rather than looking at it two-dimensionally. Try to go from "he does it or I do it" - option "a" or "b" to getting creative and finding a third option - an option "triscuit" for example.

I am a SAHM who has struggled for years at managing a household effectively. Once in a while I have a lightbulb go off and I think of or read about a totally different way to approach a particular task and it is so exciting. Suddenly I realize that parameters I have seen as immovable are suddenly maleable.

OP, I don't envy your situation and clearly in the end you have to do what you feel is right for you and your children. There will be consequences for any decisions you make. It's your life to live and your choices to make and your consequences to bear and really, that's a good thing that you get to be the one to decide.

 

[SaraJayne]

I can't agree. My father was a lazy bum who would have sat on his rear watching tv all day if my mother let him get away with it. As it was, she was only able to get him off his butt half of the time. When they went to counseling, he said he was depressed. Eventually, the counselor told my mother that in her opinion, my father had figured out that if someone said they were depressed, then they were absolved of all responsibility and got to lay around the house and do nothing, while watching their spouse kill themselves to cater to them and carry all of the burden.

It was amazing how quickly my father got over his so-called depression when my mother walked out the door.

Yup. That was my point, but you made it much better than I did.

 

[BensDaddy]

What makes me most sad for my divorced friends is how little time they get to spend with their children. I don't want that. I am willing to go through some relatively short term unhappiness to be there whenever my little boy needs me. In the meantime, she and I will continue to grow as a couple and, who knows? Maybe we will fall back in love. It isn't for lack of trying. We frequently take trips and do nice things for one another. For our tenth anniversary we took a Disney cruise and spent a few nights at the hotel where we were engaged. She just booked another cruise for my 40th birthday present. All we need is to find that spark again. I hope it happens soon.

 

[junebee]

I've had an opportunity to read all of your posts, and again appreciate all of your input. I really do not believe the problem stems from depression. While he may be depressed, it is not the primary reason for his behavior. This started long before his unemployment, possibly from very early on in our relationship. I truly do believe that he is lazy. I also believe that I have been enabling him all of these years. It is partially my fault for allowing it to go. I just believed that things would change.

Some have suggested that I help him in the job hunt. Well I wrote his entire resume, and I write his cover letters. I email him jobs to apply to. Once he said that he had found a company that he wanted to apply to but couldn't because he needed a cover letter. I was too busy and told him to do it himself. Well he didn't write it. All he had to do was change a couple things on a cover letter that he had previously sent.

I don't want to write a list of chores for my husband. He is an adult. He needs to start acting like one. I am so done being his mom, I want a husband.

 

[SaraJayne]

Obviously it is up to the hubby to actually follow through with his appointment, but if it were me, I would be driving him there and going in with him.

If he were her child, that would be an appropriate response. He is not her child, even though he acts like it.

It is not her responsibility to get him to the doctor. He is an adult and can figure out how to get himself there.

 

[sparklynails23]

Does he watch the kids while you are at work?

 

[goofyernmost]

What makes me most sad for my divorced friends is how little time they get to spend with their children. I don't want that. I am willing to go through some relatively short term unhappiness to be there whenever my little boy needs me.

It is my opinion that a small amount of quality, good time beats the heck out of a whole bunch of stress filled anxiety. Children can sense this and the worst part is that they don't know what it is, they just know they feel something and they are not sure what it is.

However, that said, I have to admit that I stayed with my marriage because I couldn't stand...1. the loss of my girls and I was pretty certain that the way the laws were written, their mother would have custody of them. (this was a while ago) and 2. the constant hope that things would go back to the way they once were. That didn't happen. Even though we are "friendly" at family gatherings there is still a wall up between us. When she got herself into a place where she had to be placed in a "home" I felt awful and thought that I could have done something to prevent that. I couldn't...she didn't want it and on many levels neither did I.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I've had an opportunity to read all of your posts, and again appreciate all of your input. I really do not believe the problem stems from depression. While he may be depressed, it is not the primary reason for his behavior. This started long before his unemployment, possibly from very early on in our relationship. I truly do believe that he is lazy. I also believe that I have been enabling him all of these years. It is partially my fault for allowing it to go. I just believed that things would change.

Some have suggested that I help him in the job hunt. Well I wrote his entire resume, and I write his cover letters. I email him jobs to apply to. Once he said that he had found a company that he wanted to apply to but couldn't because he needed a cover letter. I was too busy and told him to do it himself. Well he didn't write it. All he had to do was change a couple things on a cover letter that he had previously sent.

I don't want to write a list of chores for my husband. He is an adult. He needs to start acting like one. I am so done being his mom, I want a husband.

I think, then, you have your answer.
You know what you have to do.
Get everything in place, and get ready to make your move.

I think the hardest part is seeing that YOU have chosen this, and enabled this, and looked past this for so long. (the first step in any 12 step program is identifying the unhealthy situation, so that then one can take ownership and take action to change)

Very simply, there are no longer any excuses for choosing, enabling, and ignoring.

He is, very simply, not the husband/father that you say you want.

I think you know what you need to do, for yourself, and for your children.

 

[Sgt Mickey]

I agree with the previous poster. My aunts husband was the same way as yours. He never worked steadily in the 40 years they were married. I can go on and on about the crappy stuff he did but towards the end when he hadn't worked in YEARS he drove her in debt and she lost her job because the company moved and he still never helped. He ended up cheating on her with a younger girl and she finally moved on. Even though my cousins love their dad I know they would of supported my aunt leaving him long ago. Your kids would rather you be happy. He is always going to be their dad your not taking that away. SO do what you need to do to be happy.

 

[kimmar067]

....I have not read through all the posts, so this may have been asked of the OP already - what do your parents and in-laws have to say about the situation, or do they even know what's going on?