I think I just became "that" parent.

[bethbuchall]

That depends when the cut off ages are - I was talking about our cut off age which is Dec. 31st. For at least half of the school year, the kids would be close to the same age within that level. Here in senior kindergarten, you must be 5 by Dec. 31st. So, you will have some kids who have already turned 5, and some who are getting ready to turn 5, so they are at ages 4.9 - 4.12. For kids with January or February birthdays, then they will be a bit older than the other kids, which sounds like your example, but it's only for half of the school year.

Most kids here in our province, are close to, if not the same ages for approx. half of the school year, since our cut off is Dec. 31st. This is better than an entire year, as in your case, you will have boys vs. girl maturity issues, as well as learning or behaviour challenged issues that come for some kids with being considerably younger or older than their peers. This is exactly why cut off dates are so important! When you only have a half of year to worry about, and it's the middle to end of year, it seems to be easier to deal with issues, as you are already starting as a teacher, to think of the next grade level. In this respect, we can really individualize programs if necessary, as the beginning of the year settling in time period is gone.

So, of course kids are not the exact same ages in their grade levels, but because of carefully selected cut off dates, they can be pretty close, but of course, you will have those kids who are an entire year apart, but with our board, they also carefully place each and every student into classes, so this would be considered as well, and those kids might end up in split classes due to January birthdays, eg. a January birthday 7 year old in grade 1, may have been placed in a grade 1/2 split, so that this child has peers on both end of the age spectrum. Whereas my DD didn't turn 7 until the very end of the school year, and she would be placed in a straight grade 1 class.

Tiger

OT - Not really. The kids are never closer in age, and 6-12 months at 5 can make a huge difference. If parents follow the cut-off (whenever it happens to be September 1st or December 31st) the kids will be within the same age span. It just shifts what that age span is.

The split classroom can also help keep kids closer to a certain age, but having a December 31st cut-off is really no different than having a September 1st cut-off when it comes to the age span within the classroom.

Back on-topic: I'm glad that you were able to catch this quickly and that your son is doing better with the system you have implemented.

 

[madcam]

I think that your child being the youngest in his class coupled with the start of a brand new school year could be a huge root of the problem. Not saying to rule out ADD or ADHD (especially since you were diagnosed with it) but I agree with your stance on implementing some behavioral modifications and positive reinforcement at home (along with the "give it a few months to sort itself out" plan) Now that the teachers have met with you and your DH and know that you are receptive to their concerns and not taking the "not my child" attitude, I think the team of you can truely help redirect your son. And if it doesn't improve, then of course you can investigate the posibility of ADD, ADHD, etc.

He's not only the youngest, but a boy at that and we all know maturity is a huge issue with boys of ALL ages so given that you know your son and what is normal for him....I think your "gut" is spot on! I also know that quick-hurry-up-are-you-or-aren't-you-going-to-start-your-child-in-x-grade-this-year? on the spot decision feeling you had at the time you decided to put him in 1st. My daughter was 4 the summer we moved to a state that the cutoff date was Sept. 30th. In our home state, it was Sept. 1st and as she had a mid-Sept. birthday, I had no plans for her to start Kinder for another year. (Didn't realize that there were different cutoffs for different states) So we moved in two weeks before school started and it was only then that I realized that she could start Kinder that year but I had to hurry and decide. It was up to us and since she had been in an Abeca (sp?) MDO program and was quite bright...I thought "OK, she can handle this." So she started Kinder at 4 and then turned 5 about six weeks later. Let me tell you, it was ROUGH! She is very shy and tiny and she was really struggling with the social aspect of everything. Two weeks in, I just wanted to pull her out and hold her back until the next year...she came home crying every single day. Broke my heart. But no sooner had I decided to actually pull her out that it all started to turn around. So she was young for her grade as well but then so were maybe a few other kids she was in class with. Then last year we moved again to another state with an August 31st cutoff. So most of the kids in her class now are older than her. Academically she has no problems...straight As. Maturity....she is not "immature" but less mature if that makes sense. Meaning that alot of the other 5th grade girls seem to be into the "tween" stuff and she isn't quite there yet. (Which is FINE by me...don't want her to grow up too fast!!) But I also don't like it that sometimes it can make her feel left out. I think immaturity in all children can present very differently from child to child.

I totally sypathize with your feelings of frustration from the note that came home...I would have probably reacted the EXACT same way!! When we hear that our child is doing something wrong, and we aren't there to see it, it can make us feel helpless. We are concerned that there is something unknown going on, we are worried on how we phrase our questions on what happened so that we can get the entire story but not to come across like we don't believe our child would ever misbehave, we feel caught between wanting to hold our children accountable for their actions and wanting to protect them, we are mortified that they are behaving in a way that they have been taught is unacceptable (reflecting poorly on us as parents), we are concerned that it will bias the person (teacher, coach, relative, caregiver, etc.) against our child. And then to be told "we will discuss it in a few days". So yeah, I can totally imagine not wanting to wait and worry for days. Especially if it is not in the general character of your child. My daughter, as a rule, doesn't have a behavior problem. I infered from your post that other than a rocky start two years ago, he is generally well behaved. If I were to get a note like you....I would have been in a panic as well. People in a panic (especially about their children) tend to be snappish in their speech and manner. Doesn't make it right, but does make it human. I think you handled yourself extreemly well given your appology for snapping at the office and I think you saw that reflected in the positive tone of your meeting.

Good luck with everything. I hope this gets resolved quickly and that your son has an enjoyable and successful school year. IMHO, I think, like others have posted, that we are all "that parent" from time to time. We are not perfect....we just love our kids.

 

[Tiger926]

OT - Not really. The kids are never closer in age, and 6-12 months at 5 can make a huge difference. If parents follow the cut-off (whenever it happens to be September 1st or December 31st) the kids will be within the same age span. It just shifts what that age span is.

The split classroom can also help keep kids closer to a certain age, but having a December 31st cut-off is really no different than having a September 1st cut-off when it comes to the age span within the classroom.

Back on-topic: I'm glad that you were able to catch this quickly and that your son is doing better with the system you have implemented.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I've taught elementary and highschool, so I've seen this in action many times. Having a December 31st cut-off does make a difference for many kids, as that is about half way through the year. Every little bit helps, as far as we are concerned. Our board has changed the cut-off dates many times over the past 40 years, and for good reason. Split classes also really help a lot in this regard, and for kids without any social or behaviour issues, being 6 months apart isn't a big deal at all, in most cases. Of course, there are going to be kids for whom this is a big deal, but not much else can be done, as none of the 4 boards in my city will retain or skip kids, so the boards do what they can with cut-off dates and split classes. Like I said, my children are in Montessori (DD just graduated) and they are years apart within the academic levels, and it isn't a huge problem. You can see different maturity levels, but the children really learn to work with the differences in ages, and the teachers use them as positive teaching tools in respect to peer helping and such.

I guess it's all how the different ages and maturity levels are handled within the classroom that makes a big difference. I've taught 15 - 22 year olds within the same class, and there hasn't been any real problems at all, and believe me, 15 year olds aren't much different than 8 year olds.

YMMV, Tiger

 

[portocall]

Jen.. just piping in to say I am really happy that sweet little Jack has returned.

 

[ilovejack02]

Jen.. just piping in to say I am really happy that sweet little Jack has returned.

Thank you C , havent been keeping up with the Nola thread, yes I know bad dis girl !! Hope all is well with the portocall bunch !! I would love to see you and your kiddos soon. xoxo.

MADCAM, You figured the situation out to a tee.

The Dis boards can be a rocky place to post issues like this, but there are folks on here that know what they are talking about . I appreciate all the help !!

Thank you Tiger : )

Looking forward to a great year and I know Jack attack is too.

 

[JLTraveling]

I have to jump in here with a really unpopular opinion. I'm about to royally upset all of the teachers and educational experts here, and I really don't mean anything bad, I know that you all work extremely hard and have a great deal of knowledge and experience...BUT: OP, PLEASE have your son's IQ tested. Your description of him literally could have been me at that age.

Long story short: I was incredibly advanced for my age since birth. My mom put me in preschool at age 3 after teaching me at home. I was already reading at a college level by that point (literally, my parents were both in college and I was reading their psych and chemistry texts for fun). The preschool tested me and put me in kindergarten. The teacher accidentally administered the end of first grade test, and we all passed--I got the highest grade in the class. Fast forward a few years. By seven, I was in an accelerated 4th grade classroom and still bored to tears. I had spent the first two weeks of that year in a regular 5th grade classroom, but the teacher insisted I be moved back because I couldn't get out a piece of paper and number from 1 to 20 quite as fast as the other kids (still had 7-yr-old manual dexterity). But I was light years beyond them academically, having basically educated myself at home with the help of my parents. I was acting out like crazy, spacing out and refusing to pay attention, talking, being disruptive...I'd already been kicked out of one private school for correcting the teacher's subtraction (I was proved right, by the way, but the school backed the teacher), so I was back in public school. Everyone insisted that it was a maturity thing, I was too young, I shouldn't have skipped grades...

Anyway, my parents paid big bucks to have my IQ privately tested. The school system didn't buy the results so they tested me again. It went up by two points to 185. "Normal" is 100. "Genius" is 140. A couple of staffings later, I was on a split-day program for the next year: mornings in high school, afternoons in elementary school. The whole reason for the elementary school? "Social development." Never mind that I was in ten million after school activities with my age bracket, nor that I always got along better with older kids and adults.

So the next year came around. At 8, I thrived at the high school, made tons of friends, had a wonderful time. I hated the elementary school, refused to do the work, ended up with stomach issues. The "expert" opinion? "High school's too much for her. Maybe we should put her back into elementary." The reality? I was miles ahead of my peers and simply couldn't restrain my desire to learn and be challenged and accomplish something.

I retreated to private school and spent the next 6 years spinning my wheels, wasting my time and constantly trying to find a place that would let me simply be me and learn. Outside of school, I was extremely mature and responsible, involved in all sorts of committees and volunteer organizations as well as theater, dance and sports. But the schools beat me down. I finally managed to graduate from a nationally known, well respected prep school at 14. Still an accomplishment, but not nearly as good as I could have done.

I'm now in my 30s and still working through the psychological and emotional scars left by educators and "experts" who insisted that they knew what I needed better than I did, because of what they read in some study or textbook or what they had seen in kids with IQs 60 points lower than mine.

OP, your son's issues may have absolutely nothing to do with a high IQ at all. But the testing's not all that expensive, and isn't it better to rule that in or out once and for all? I'm glad things are going better for now.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I have to jump in here with a really unpopular opinion. I'm about to royally upset all of the teachers and educational experts here, and I really don't mean anything bad, I know that you all work extremely hard and have a great deal of knowledge and experience...BUT: OP, PLEASE have your son's IQ tested. Your description of him literally could have been me at that age.

Long story short: I was incredibly advanced for my age since birth. My mom put me in preschool at age 3 after teaching me at home. I was already reading at a college level by that point (literally, my parents were both in college and I was reading their psych and chemistry texts for fun). The preschool tested me and put me in kindergarten. The teacher accidentally administered the end of first grade test, and we all passed--I got the highest grade in the class. Fast forward a few years. By seven, I was in an accelerated 4th grade classroom and still bored to tears. I had spent the first two weeks of that year in a regular 5th grade classroom, but the teacher insisted I be moved back because I couldn't get out a piece of paper and number from 1 to 20 quite as fast as the other kids (still had 7-yr-old manual dexterity). But I was light years beyond them academically, having basically educated myself at home with the help of my parents. I was acting out like crazy, spacing out and refusing to pay attention, talking, being disruptive...I'd already been kicked out of one private school for correcting the teacher's subtraction (I was proved right, by the way, but the school backed the teacher), so I was back in public school. Everyone insisted that it was a maturity thing, I was too young, I shouldn't have skipped grades...

Anyway, my parents paid big bucks to have my IQ privately tested. The school system didn't buy the results so they tested me again. It went up by two points to 185. "Normal" is 100. "Genius" is 140. A couple of staffings later, I was on a split-day program for the next year: mornings in high school, afternoons in elementary school. The whole reason for the elementary school? "Social development." Never mind that I was in ten million after school activities with my age bracket, nor that I always got along better with older kids and adults.

So the next year came around. At 8, I thrived at the high school, made tons of friends, had a wonderful time. I hated the elementary school, refused to do the work, ended up with stomach issues. The "expert" opinion? "High school's too much for her. Maybe we should put her back into elementary." The reality? I was miles ahead of my peers and simply couldn't restrain my desire to learn and be challenged and accomplish something.

I retreated to private school and spent the next 6 years spinning my wheels, wasting my time and constantly trying to find a place that would let me simply be me and learn. Outside of school, I was extremely mature and responsible, involved in all sorts of committees and volunteer organizations as well as theater, dance and sports. But the schools beat me down. I finally managed to graduate from a nationally known, well respected prep school at 14. Still an accomplishment, but not nearly as good as I could have done.

I'm now in my 30s and still working through the psychological and emotional scars left by educators and "experts" who insisted that they knew what I needed better than I did, because of what they read in some study or textbook or what they had seen in kids with IQs 60 points lower than mine.

OP, your son's issues may have absolutely nothing to do with a high IQ at all. But the testing's not all that expensive, and isn't it better to rule that in or out once and for all? I'm glad things are going better for now.

I actually just priced it. Here it's between $600 and $2500 depending on who does the testing. I'm not the OP, but have posted on this thread. My son is having a difficult time in school. I've asked the principal if the school could do some testing on my son and we're having a meeting (he has a 504 for ADHD) soon.

He has a great teacher (who is very intelligent, btw, unlike last year's teacher) this year who "gets" him. He is in the second grade's highest math and reading groups (there are 4), but unfortunately the math is still far below where he's at and he's bored and acting out, still.

So, yes, the testing isn't outrageous, but $600 -$2000 isn't readily available to a lot of people.

 

[JLTraveling]

I actually just priced it. Here it's between $600 and $2500 depending on who does the testing. I'm not the OP, but have posted on this thread. My son is having a difficult time in school. I've asked the principal if the school could do some testing on my son and we're having a meeting (he has a 504 for ADHD) soon.

He has a great teacher (who is very intelligent, btw, unlike last year's teacher) this year who "gets" him. He is in the second grade's highest math and reading groups (there are 4), but unfortunately the math is still far below where he's at and he's bored and acting out, still.

So, yes, the testing isn't outrageous, but $600 -$2000 isn't readily available to a lot of people.

I know it's a struggle, especially in this economy. But if you can at all stretch things, rearrange your budget, even use a credit card (and I'm about as anti-credit as they come), the testing is absolutely worth it. I'm a strong believer that it's the single best thing that any parent can do for a potentially high-IQ child, and the farther advanced the child is, the more crucial the testing is. It's not so much because the number actually matters, but because the number is the single thing that makes administrators sit up and pay attention. My parents and I got absolutely nowhere until the number was there in front of the educators, in black and white. At that point, it becomes a "special education" matter and an IEP MUST be developed.

My parents want me to extend their sympathy to you, the OP and every other parent who is struggling with these issues. It's not easy.

 

[allyphoe]

It's not so much because the number actually matters, but because the number is the single thing that makes administrators sit up and pay attention.

That's not necessarily true, at least not in all states. Our state has a standardized way of handling acceleration, and they care not one whit for IQ scores. Nor will you get an IEP for high IQ, although I know you can in some states.

I do think that a good, comprehensive evaluation (which would result in a report, rather than just a number) can be extremely useful in trying to figure out what to do with a kid who isn't easily accommodated by the standard school routine.

(And for anyone who does go get that evaluation, the Stanford-Binet V ceilings out at 160, and the WISC ceilings at about that level, unless the tester uses "extended norms." The ceiling effect can begin to artificially depress scores at much lower levels, so you should specifically ask about it if any of the subscores are higher than ~130 or so.)