I suspect Riviera must not be selling as well as they hoped it would

[CarolMN]

How many 75 or 100 point contracts were posted on the OCC website? 50 points at RIV sure wont get you that many nights in a studio. 50 points would really only get you maybe 2 nights a year in a preferred studio.

But 100 points (for a trip every other year) could get you 4 or 5 nights in choice or adventure or magic season, and the 50 point contracts are add-on contracts. If it weren't for the resale restrictions, that's what we would have bought. Works pretty well for those who don't mind a split stay.

 

[kboo]

73 50pt contracts
49 75pt contracts
46 100pt contracts
57 150 pt contracts
64 200 pt contracts.
25 250 pt contracts
39 contracts over 250 pts

Those are the most popular "chunks" of contracts that I see. These are also just the ones recorded, I'm sure there's more sales in the pipeline. The numbers might not be 100% accurate, I'm just finding a common doc deed tax and counting those up as the same size contract. If incentives expired it may skew the numbers, but I'm not going to put that much time into this.

But 100 points (for a trip every other year) could get you 4 or 5 nights in choice or adventure or magic season, and the 50 point contracts are add-on contracts. If it weren't for the resale restrictions, that's what we would have bought. Works pretty well for those who don't mind a split stay.

Also, we bought a larger chunk of points split into 2 smaller contracts, and last time I was on the site, I saw several others who had done the same.

When did sales open to new (not-yet-DVC) members? I would have guessed that "experienced" DVC owners would have been more likely to break up a large chunk of points into 2 or more smaller contracts. (Except for that guaranteed week in a GV... wth!)

 

[skippytx]

Yeah, someone bought 7 x 75pt contracts. I'm not going to spend that much time digging into the data though to identify unique purchasers. (The same purchasers also have 2 x 300 and 1 x 270 Poly contracts). Guess they love DVC

 

[GoofyCoaster]

Thanks for looking at all that sales data, skippytx. Interesting reading.

Agree about that GV GW 51, kboo. There’s a similar available listing for a ocean view GV GW in Aulani. And it makes me shake my head. I don’t know whether to be envious or concerned for them. Lol

My prediction is those 50-75 point riviera contracts will turn out to be a great hedge against potentially lower resale prices with the restrictions. Not only because small point contracts command a higher price per point, but I also think there will be a subset of resale buyers who will want a few points specifically to book riveria at 11 months.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Again, no one would be happier if they removed the restriction than me. Heck, I would probably even add on another 50-75 points. We can all dream...

Once you’ve bought with the resales restrictions, how could any future changes benefit you? Would the resales restrictions changes only benefit new buyers?

 

[bianca]

My prediction is those 50-75 point riviera contracts will turn out to be a great hedge against potentially lower resale prices with the restrictions. Not only because small point contracts command a higher price per point, but I also think there will be a subset of resale buyers who will want a few points specifically to book riveria at 11 months

This was exactly our thinking when we purchased 50 points at RR. In addition, we only plan to stay in a studio for 6 nights every other year and needed the 11 month booking for that. We have 575 points, so essentially, all of our stays will be at our other resorts.

 

[The Jackal]

Went to Disneyland yesterday and stopped by a DVC kiosk just to look at pics with my son because we had time to kill. The girl who worked there asked if I was interested in DVC. I said we are considering it and I’d talked to a phone agent and I just couldn’t see buying Riviera even though I liked the resort because I felt the resale restrictions would devalue my purchase.

She got kinda uncomfortable and said her understanding is those restrictions were to help the resort maintain its exclusivity so that only DVC members could stay there. I told her I felt like it was buying a car but if resold it, the manufacturer would remove the a/c and power options. Of course the value of the car would go down and I couldn’t see buying into that. She said that’s not how she understood it and would be talking to her manager for more info.

Honestly, her answer about the exclusivity almost bothered me more. Wouldn’t want the resale peons swimming in the Riviera pool. It seemed so classist. Not very Disney, IMHO.

If they want to make it exclusive start DVC 2 and make it so RIV points can only be used for RIV, .Then let's see how happy the owners are .I'm sure lots will be happy, but some will be upset they can't enjoy other resorts, like DVC 1. It's not like the Skyliner is exclusive to that resort it goes to POP and AOA .

 

[Drewferin]

I guess with an 11 month window you could most likely always get a standard room instead of preferred if you have some flexibility in your dates.

I'm still struggling if AKV makes more sense than RIV. Long term (5-7 years) I can see W&D in our future so RIV sure would be nice. Sort term with more AKV points would extend or upgrade our vacations during the summer months.

 

[Spartan86]

Yeah, someone bought 7 x 75pt contracts. I'm not going to spend that much time digging into the data though to identify unique purchasers. (The same purchasers also have 2 x 300 and 1 x 270 Poly contracts). Guess they love DVC

Are you surfin' today? Documents are still not final but there are deed recordings for 4 -1000 point contracts(based on the deed doc tax $1316/.007) to the same person. I'm betting Riviera but it could be CCV. FWIW the grantee has no other "hits" on OCC so I am presuming first time buyer. Wow.

 

[Drewferin]

Well DVCNews is reporting April sales volume:
https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/news-34867/4467-direct-sales-soar-in-april-2019

It would definitely appear that RIV is doing very well in sales. April had a total of 407 sold deeds containing 59,246 points, about 0.88% of Riviera’s 6.7 million points. This means that the average contract size was 145.56 points.

Bottom line is that the resale restrictions are NOT hurting sales it doesnt appear from this data. I almost imagine a price increase or elimination of incentives before Star Wars opens at Disney World.

 

[skippytx]

Interesting. If I was that person I would at least have hid the purchase in a LLC or Trust.

 

[Spartan86]

Interesting. If I was that person I would at least have hid the purchase in a LLC or Trust.

Yeah I hear ya. Docs are more complete now. 4-1000 pt DRR. The couple in question also sports 1200 BWV, 600 BRV and 2000 BCV. This is their first add since 2002. Interesting.

 

[Bing Showei]

It would definitely appear that RIV is doing very well in sales. April had a total of 407 sold deeds containing 59,246 points, about 0.88% of Riviera’s 6.7 million points. This means that the average contract size was 145.56 points.

Not sure you could conclude that Riviera is doing "very well." CCV sold almost 300% more points than Riviera last month, accounting for 61% of sales. Riviera sales accounted for 22% of all sales.

Wil notes in the article that this is actually a "slow start" to sales on a monthly basis, which is not uncommon with new resorts. CCV sold 13% less than Riviera did in it's first month and then went on to sell out at a record clip. So it's hard to judge the health of the resort sales based on such a small sampling and so early on.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Interesting. If I was that person I would at least have hid the purchase in a LLC or Trust.

WouLd this prevent disclosure on OCC website?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

WouLd this prevent disclosure on OCC website?

No it would not.

 

[crvetter]

WouLd this prevent disclosure on OCC website?

No but the Trust or LLC would be disclosed. So an extent the owner is hidden behind a trust and LLC. However, if you go search through the public records (in the state founded) on the Trust and LLC typically you can find the owner of them. There are even more complicated ways to hide the owners of the Trust and LLC though depending on the state.

 

[TexasChick123]

I am guessing that a lot of buyers are hesitant to buy without seeing the resort in person which isn’t possible now. That’s probably why CCV picked up after those first few months. RIV won’t be open to the public until 12/16. I’m expecting the sales to be slower until it actually opens and people can look around and/or stay there. If the resort ends up being amazing, sales will be fine despite the restrictions.

I also wanted to add that the skyliner is still unproven as it isn’t even operational yet. Many want to see how it operates as well before buying RIV.

 

[summerw]

If they want to make it exclusive start DVC 2 and make it so RIV points can only be used for RIV, .Then let's see how happy the owners are .I'm sure lots will be happy, but some will be upset they can't enjoy other resorts, like DVC 1. It's not like the Skyliner is exclusive to that resort it goes to POP and AOA .

One thing that did concern me about the kiosk conversation was that although I think the CM was playing a little clueless, I don’t think even she really understood completely about the restrictions.

I wonder how many people have purchased totally unaware this would happen to their contract if they resold. I would be fascinated to hear these sales pitches. If they’re not being very direct about it, I’d say some people will feel like it was a bait and switch. Since being able to trade between resorts has been an essential element of the “club” for so long, I can imagine people feeling very misled.

 

[Bing Showei]

If they’re not being very direct about it, I’d say some people will feel like it was a bait and switch. Since being able to trade between resorts has been an essential element of the “club” for so long, I can imagine people feeling very misled.

How is that bait and switch though? That owner will always be able to trade into other resorts. Nothing will ever change for their ownership.

I think that goes to the heart of Disney’s changes to their timeshare model. You buy to keep and use. You’ll be fine as long as that’s all you’re looking to do.

 

[crvetter]

How is that bait and switch though? That owner will always be able to trade into other resorts. Nothing will ever change for their ownership.

I think that goes to the heart of Disney’s changes to their timeshare model. You buy to keep and use. You’ll be fine as long as that’s all you’re looking to do.

Agree with this. It's the resale companies that have this confusion to deal with and they are being very careful to make sure the buyers know what they are getting. After the restrictions were announced I had to sign a piece of paper saying I acknowledged with the resale restrictions that I could not trade into Riviera with them.

But yeah so far direct and resale restrictions never have had anything taken from them (aside from the changing incidental benefits), basically grandfathered everyone in always. What I find will be interesting what will they do if they every modify (big if but they wrote in they could) the resale restrictions more so by weakening them, who what that apply to... Then the grandfathering gets dicey and I hope its only grandfather people in to protect them from negative changes but allow them to accept positive changes.