I shouldnt be suprised at this point...

[Saxsoon]

Saxsoon.....This is simply wrong...There are hundreds of small differences between the Hebrew text of the Tanakh and the OT.
The most basic examples would be the fact that in places where the Hebrew Tanakh says Grave the OT says Hell, and the places where the Hebrew Tanakh says Scourge or Accuser, the OT says Devil

There is also no Virgin Birth prophecy in the Tanakh..Its says Behold the young woman(almah) is with Child ,in Hebrew but the OT translates that to Behold the virgin( Bethulah) will be with Child ... This gives Christians a supposed Virgin Birth prophecy that simply does not exist in the Tanakh.
These are just a few of many small changes,not to mention that you dvide the OT differently than Jews Read the Tanakh and you put the books in a different order than the Tanakh does

Interesting. Grave and Scourge could be the same thing as Hell and Devil when put into the context of the time period. But let's not argue that. You do have a point nonetheless. What are some other differences that would be along these lines.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

I did not feel like reading through 50 pages of debate, entertaining as it might be. I'll save that for a rainy day Just wanted to say I think it's pretty cool that a church official is taking that stance. As the neice of a gay man who was ostracized by the catholic church he was raised in, I always find it refreshing when men, or women, of the cloth take this point of view. Jesus preached love and acceptance, not judgement and righteousness. It would do many modern day Christians good to remember that.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Well, it all makes sense then! You belong to the church of the month club!
I'm outta here. If you can let somebody who basically makes up their own religion tell you what to think and believe, then I am sorry.

Church of the Month Club??

I attend one church, Life Changers International, in Illinois.

We don't make anything up, we follow the Bible.

 

[jimmiej]

Sorry, Gregory, couldn't resist...one of your disciples is making an out of himself over here...

First you quote a private message. Then you CHANGE a person's quote? And you accuse Joe of being hateful? You need to go back & read the DIS rules for posting!

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I did not feel like reading through 50 pages of debate, entertaining as it might be. I'll save that for a rainy day Just wanted to say I think it's pretty cool that a church official is taking that stance. As the neice of a gay man who was ostracized by the catholic church he was raised in, I always find it refreshing when men, or women, of the cloth take this point of view. Jesus preached love and acceptance, not judgement and righteousness. It would do many modern day Christians good to remember that.

It would be good to remember that Jesus never did anything contrary to the will of the Father, as per His Word, the Bible.

The church official in question is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[JennyMominRI]

It would be good to remember that Jesus never did anything contrary to the will of the Father, as per His Word, the Bible.

.

Yes,nothing except throw out Jewish law,whch G-d said was binding upon Jews for all eternity

And don't give me the Fulfill the law quote,because there is no such thing..
How did Jesus fulfill that law to eat Matzoh on Passover or to build a succah?


The speed limit is 55..I drove 55 today..I have now fulfilled the law,can speed tomorrow?

 

[Muziqal]

First you quote a private message. Then you CHANGE a person's quote? And you accuse Joe of being hateful? You need to go back & read the DIS rules for posting!

I never once accused Joe of being hateful...nor did I say I was a nice guy here on the Dis with those who I disagree with. You should have gotten at least that from our exchange of PM's last night.

You comin to our fondu, Jimmie? Band instructors welcome as I'm a music lover myslef. It should be a gay old time.

Edit: Forget the fondu, let's meet at Joe's church of the month in Illinois. I'd love to make an appearance there.

 

[HomeSweetDisney]

It would be good to remember that Jesus never did anything contrary to the will of the Father, as per His Word, the Bible.

The church official in question is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I don't follow the bible. There are far too many discrepancies in it for me to really take it as the one true word. I believe in God and I try to live my life as a decent person. That's good enough for me. If you choose to pass judgement on others because they aren't living their life the way you think they should then that is your business. But I've seen how organized religion can treat people who are different and I would prefer not to associate myself with that.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I never once accused Joe of being hateful...nor did I say I was a nice guy here on the Dis with those who I disagree with. You should have gotten at least that from our exchange of PM's last night.

You comin to our fondu, Jimmie? Band instructors welcome as I'm a music lover myslef. It should be a gay old time.

The good old days -- when gay meant happy, and pride was a den of lions.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I never once accused Joe of being hateful...nor did I say I was a nice guy here on the Dis with those who I disagree with. You should have gotten at least that from our exchange of PM's last night.

You comin to our fondu, Jimmie? Band instructors welcome as I'm a music lover myslef. It should be a gay old time.

Edit: Forget the fondu, let's meet at Joe's church of the month in Illinois. I'd love to make an appearance there.

You are welcome in our church and it meets every week in the same place.

 

[MrVisible]

The good old days -- when gay meant happy, and pride was a den of lions.

And women were barefoot and pregnant, basically chattel, and black people were slaves... Yeah, the good old days.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm going to bow out now,because I'm taking the thread off course... My point in posting what I post ,is to show that when peoplecome on here and claim absolute certainty that their understandig of G-d and his word is the only right one,and use that surety to preach discrimnation of peolpe who cause no harm to others, I'm going to do my best to show that there are other ways to view these things..And I'm going to fight it in the only way that they respect and that is with another version G-ds word and religion..It's not in any way an attempt to pull people away from CHristianity or to try to get people to convert,but to show that other can believe differently and back that up.. I don't believe anyone needs to believe the way I do,not do I have any desire to legislate my beliefs

 

[MrVisible]

Church of the Month Club??

I attend one church, Life Changers International, in Illinois.

We don't make anything up, we follow the Bible.

Oh, this is too rich. This is freakin' hysterical.

After spending a half hour doing research on your church, Joe, I have to say it is a source of great satisfaction to me that you have found your spiritual home there. Yes, I can certainly say that I can't think of a better place for you to worship. You enjoy that, now. Stay as long as you like.

There's a reason they call you all a flock, you know.

Man, that's funny.

 

[jimmiej]

Yes,nothing except throw out Jewish law,whch G-d said was binding upon Jews for all eternity

And don't give me the Fulfill the law quote,because there is no such thing..
How did Jesus fulfill that law to eat Matzoh on Passover or to build a succah?


The speed limit is 55..I drove 55 today..I have now fulfilled the law,can speed tomorrow?

The Bible tells us Jesus did what the law couldn't-make us righteous.

Romans 2
The Jews and the Law
17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

 

[Muziqal]

I'm starting to wonder how weird this world is...this guy Joe loves Epcot too...and if I met him there, we'd have a completely different relationship talking about cultural exchanges, Norwegian girls (my favourite country by the way ) and technological advancement.

Instead, oraganized religion has eroded that similarity and we're here at our fun-fondu-let's go to your church of the month-you're wrong-i'm right until i die for my Jesus debate.

Yet, here I am debating away with a fanatical christian for hours of my life...wasted or not? I must say adieu. Real life beckons. The dogs need to be walked, my girlfriend picked up from work and I must replenish my strength in case Joe decides to take me up on my offer to visit me here and celebrate Canada day with me this weekend.

Sad that human kind has to occupy so much space in their minds and hearts with judgment and insecurity - all in the name of a god. Joe, for your sake I hope you find peace...because you're far from it now my friend. Re-read the last 50 pages and tell me if you sound content. All the best to you in your Crusade discerment, Jimmie and Joe...

 

[jimmiej]

Oh, this is too rich. This is freakin' hysterical.

After spending a half hour doing research on your church, Joe, I have to say it is a source of great satisfaction to me that you have found your spiritual home there. Yes, I can certainly say that I can't think of a better place for you to worship. You enjoy that, now. Stay as long as you like.

There's a reason they call you all a flock, you know.

Man, that's funny.

Joe's church doesn't appear to be any different from other Bible-believing, Bible-preaching churches. There are tens of thousands of them all over the world, and new one's starting all the time. Not sure what your point was.

 

[jimmiej]

All the best to you in your Crusade discerment, Jimmie and Joe...

My only "crusade" here was to point out (I'll use Joe's words here) a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[NewJersey]

And women were barefoot and pregnant, basically chattel, and black people were slaves... Yeah, the good old days.

Ah, so I've missed the same old crap I see.

 

[MrVisible]

Joe's church doesn't appear to be any different from other Bible-believing, Bible-preaching churches. There are tens of thousands of them all over the world, and new one's starting all the time. Not sure what your point was.

It's a "Word of Faith" church.

Some beliefs:
*Predominantly focused on healing
*God operates by spiritual law and is obliged to do the faith filled command or desires by believers.
*Man is a little god. Man was created on terms with equality with God. Man can stand in God's presence without conscious of inferiority.
*Christ - it is compromised position; you are as much the incarnation as Jesus
*It is the Gospel of Health. Isaiah 53:5 is used as a blanket coverage for the physical healing of every Christian who has enough faith. If you are sick it is because there is sin in your life.
*The Gospel of Wealth - God's wills the financial prosperity of every believer. If a believer lives in poverty, he is outside the will of God.

It's a secretive but very prosperous organization, but with some research you can turn up some real howlers. But hey, with an emphasis on worldly wealth at least they're all getting rich, huh? Or at least the pastor is.

Seriously, this is fun stuff. A couple of links...

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/more/w-f.htm

http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm

http://www.gospeloutreach.net/whatwordfaith.html

http://www.intotruth.org/wof/tract3.html

http://www.intotruth.org/wof/sayings.html

 

[MrVisible]

Oh, and I forgot to mention... one of the key words used by followers of this type of church? You guessed it... discernment.

I usually make it a point to stay out of peoples' religion. Unless of course they use it as a weapon against people I love.

When the religion is this funny, though, that's icing on the cake.