I.Q.-Does it matter?

[Tiffer]

I would have to disagree with you here. It may be that the test was inappropriately administered, but 94 is really not a low IQ. It's in the normal range, not even on the low end either. I know many kids that tested in the average range, sometimes lower. They always made the honor roll when I didn't, because they worked harder and were much more motivated than I was.

I agree that motivation and hard work are always a factor, and that people are amazing and can overcome many things.

However, I would check into further if it was my child, as there is a great disparity between the IQ and the grades.

 

[floridafam]

Yes, I think IQ matters.

There are many other factors that will determine a child's future.

I think your sister needs to relax and realize that he's only 7. He has got so much potential and I would hate to see anyone give up on him at such a young age. IMO, he's got just as much potential as the kid with a high IQ.

I don't think we should stop these tests for children or not have gifted classes. Some kids need them.

 

[jrmasm]

Tell your sister to get a grip. Once she gets a grip, tell her to use her IQ to figure out why it's so important to her that her "happy, calm, cooperative, loves to read, good in math at age 7 child" be in the G&T program, or have a higher than average IQ, because that's what this is about. It's about your sister's reaction. The kid sounds fine. He sounds like he likes school, he sounds like he's a happy, well-adjusted child. Of course, with Mom going around boo-hooing because she won't be able to brag to all the other mothers how "little Johnny is gifted" I am sure that eventually he'll pick up on that and live down to her expectations.

Leave the kid alone. There are a million reasons why he may not have done well on the test, all of which have been discussed ad nauseum here. I wasn't in the G&T programs at school, I have no idea what my IQ is, I got into college, have been an RN for 24 years, haven't killed anyone, and am a contributing member of society, own my own home, got married etc.

As someone who couldn't have children, reactions like your sister is having to something as ridiculous as an IQ test adminstered to a 7 year old really annoy the crap out of me. Tell her to be thankful to have a happy, well-adjusted, pleasant child who likes school. I'd give my eyeteeth to have that.

Wow, you probably shoud have hit the back button instead of submit. It's pretty insulting to assume that the mother only cares about the score because she won't be able to brag about her son.

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

I would say if your sister is really that concerned she should have a private psychologist test her son, so not influenced by the school at all. It's either going to correlate with the school test or not, right? If it's close to the same, then his IQ is average and he's a hard worker - which is a wonderful thing and the child should be rewarded and praised for his hard work! If it doesn't correlate and his IQ is really higher - then he had an off day or there was some other problem with the test and she can usually submit the private testing score to the school. Please tell your sis not to freak out over one test and not to show that to her son. He IS already sucessful. The private IQ tests are not cheap, we paid $800, but if she feels it's really important . . .

The way I've had it explained to me (by a private psych) IQ is more like a measure of potential, being able to grasp higher level concepts for example - it is NOT by any means a predictor of how a child will do at school or success. From my own experience and also told to me by some psychologists - gifted kids can have a hard time developing a good work ethic - because so many things come fairly easy to them. They aren't used to hard work. Then when something hard comes along and they have to work at it - kind of throws them for a loop. Here's an article along those lines http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

So, personally, I believe a high IQ is a wonderful thing but it has to be nutured also. Yes, there are people who have high IQ's who didn't do well and people with average IQ's who are very sucessful. Either way, it's how the person uses their gifts and again how they are nurtured (sp?). Your sis should be proud of her son as he's doing well in school.

Good luck with this

 

[Tinkerbelle'sMOM]

His mom can also look up the state's criteria on their state BOE site. Ohio's is as follows:

Identification: Who is Gifted in Ohio by Law and Rule?
The information summarized in this document is based upon Ohio Revised Code 3324.01-07 (law) and Ohio Administrative Code 3301-51-15 (rule).

Children are identified as gifted in Ohio in four major categories: superior cognitive ability; specific academic ability; creative thinking ability; and visual or performing arts ability.

There are four fields included in specific academic ability: mathematics; science; reading, writing or a combination of these skills; and/or social studies.

The following table summarizes the eligibility criteria for each area. All tests and checklists used must be on an approved list prepared by the Ohio Department of Education (ODE). With the exception of the visual or performing arts ability area, the child must have achieved the required score within the preceding 24 months.

Superior Cognitive Ability Specific Academic Ability in a Field Creative Thinking Ability Visual or Performing Arts Ability
Score two standard deviations above the mean minus the standard error of measurement on an intelligence test, perform at or above the 95th percentile on a basic or composite battery of a nationally- normed achievement test, or attain an approved score on an above grade-level standardized, nationally-normed test. Perform at or above the 95th percentile at the national level on a standardized achievement test of specific academic ability in that field. A child may be identified as gifted in more than one specific academic ability field. Score one standard deviation above the mean minus the standard error of measurement on an intelligence test and attain a sufficient score, as established by the Department, on a test of creative ability or a checklist of creative behavior. Demonstrate to a trained individual through a display of work, an audition, or other performance or exhibition, superior ability in a visual or performing arts area and attain a sufficient score, as established by the Department, on a checklist of behaviors related to a specific arts area.


In addition to defining who is considered gifted in Ohio, the rule and/or law provides that:

Districts must have an identification plan and local board policy approved by ODE
Districts must have regular opportunities for assessment for giftedness based on referrals from teachers, parents or other children
Children who are culturally and linguistically diverse, from low socio-economic status, with disabilities and/or who are limited English proficient must be included in the identification process
Parents must be notified of assessment results
Parents have an opportunity to appeal
Districts must accept assessments given outside the district by trained personnel
Districts must distribute their gifted identification policy to parents



Personally, in my DD's GATE classes, there are several kids that have been identified as gifted but are totally horrid students, while there are some other kids that I know of that aren't in it and I am surprised. They go by the guidelines pretty much where we are, but a parent can appeal and have outside testing to be placed. Also, since the No Child Left Behind act came into play, they have seriously made cuts in our GATE program to accomodate the tutoring and such they are required to give the other kids. They have even mainstreamed them back into a few classes instead of in AP classes and these GATE kids hate it because it is stuff they covered 2 years ago and have to repeat now because of cuts in funding.

So pretty much, tell your DN's mom it isn't all it is cracked up to be. Next year my DD will be in all honor classes and only pulled out to participate in certain things with the GATE program. It is actually very hard for the GATE kids in school. And I don't brag about her either...I feel bad for her sometimes because it is very hard to be in those classes and these kids live a whole different way then their peers...they have to adjust to how they think and are. They are in essence like having a special ed kid. Many of them have adjustment issues, social issues, self image issues, etc. It isn't easy on them. Just my mom's opinion.

 

[mrsv98]

I admit I haven't read thru all the pages but I can tell you about my DD. She is almost 7 and very bright. Reads several levels above her grade, writes amazingly well, etc etc.

Last year, KDG teacher says we really need to work with her because she can't count to whatever. DH and I look at her like she has two heads, DD can count really well. What we discovered is that DD is shy around other adults and won't give out info unless she really trusts the person. Even after a year in 1st, she has trouble answering in class when called upon (as opposed to volunteering info).

It is quite likely that your DN wasn't engaged with the testor and/or didn't trust the person. IQ testing is a very nebulous process and especially at this age can be hard to rely on.

Tell your DSis to look at his achievements and not an almost random number.

 

[PhotobearSam]

IQ Range Classification

140 and over Genius or near genius
120-140 Very superior intelligence
110-120 Superior intelligence
90-110 Normal or average intelligence
80-90 Dullness
70-80 Borderline deficiency
Below 70 Definite feeble-mindedness

I just found this...He is normal. I also think that at age 7, it's not very accurate. I think advanced or gifted classes are not always a good thing.

I hope this helped.

 

[Nicolepa]

That seems odd to me. And potentially damaging. Sorry kid, you used to be Gifted and Talented but you're not any more.

I agree. Here, as long as the kids aren't struggling, they stay in the program. They do retest in 6th grade when you go into Jr. High. I am fine with that as it's a natural change time anyway.

DD's teacher says the range of her kids are huge. She customizes everyone's work (more or less) so that they are challenged, but not frustrated. The woman is amazing.

 

[tw1nsmom]

I just wanted to add, that the whole IQ determines career choices thing is a load of hooey (or a load of something else. Here's where I bet she got it from:

In their book, Know Your Child’s IQ, Glen Wilson and Diana Grylls outline occupations typical of various IQ levels:
140 Top Civil Servants; Professors and Research Scientists.
130 Physicians and Surgeons; Lawyers; Engineers (Civil and Mechanical)
120 School Teachers; Pharmacists; Accountants; Nurses; Stenographers; Managers.
110 Foremen; Clerks; Telephone Operators; Salesmen; Policemen; Electricians.
100+ Machine Operators; Shopkeepers; Butchers; Welders; Sheet Metal Workers.
100- Warehousemen; Carpenters; Cooks and Bakers; Small Farmers; Truck and Van Drivers.
90 Laborers; Gardeners; Upholsterers; Farmhands; Miners; Factory Packers and Sorters.

Look over the list. Apparently you NEED to have an above average IQ to be a telephone operator. Oh, and look you need to be really up there to be a manager of something. Please!! I know my IQ is right around 100. I know I don't have "superior" intelligence and I have a BA in psychology and a MS in Elementary Education. How did I ever do it?



Oh, and I just wanted to add that the previous classification labels are a little outdated. This is a more modern way of classifying:


A GUIDE TO PERCENTILE RANKS & CLASSIFICATION RATINGS
(Wechsler Tests)
IQ..................Percentile Range..........Classification
130 and above..........98 to 99.99.............. Very Superior
120 to 129................91 to 97...................Superior
110 to 119................75 to 90.................High Average
90 to 109.................25 to 73..................Average
80 to 89...................9 to 23................Low Average
70 to 79...................2 to 8.....................Borderline
69 and below............. .01 to 2 ........Intellectual Deficient


It's the same chart, just different labels.

 

[Becky2005]

IOh, and I just wanted to add that the previous classification labels are a little outdated. This is a more modern way of classifying:

A GUIDE TO PERCENTILE RANKS & CLASSIFICATION RATINGS
(Wechsler Tests)
IQ..................Percentile Range..........Classification
130 and above..........98 to 99.99.............. Very Superior
120 to 129................91 to 97...................Superior
110 to 119................75 to 90.................High Average
90 to 109.................25 to 73..................Average
80 to 89...................9 to 23................Low Average
70 to 79...................2 to 8.....................Borderline
69 and below............. .01 to 2 ........Intellectual Deficient


It's the same chart, just different labels.

OK...this entire thread made me go dig up the paperwork from my DS recent meeting to see if the numbers were in there from the last time to this time.
They were! After going through all the sub-sets (they used Wechsler for Children) and all their numbers the bottom line was when he took it in 1st grade his Full Scale IQ was 127 and now his Full Scale IQ is 106. So in 3 years time, take another 21 points off and we will be in the 80-89 range.

Honestly, even though his points went down 21 between 3 years, he's the exact same kid with the exact same struggles/strengths both times. The numbers didn't change a thing about him as a person and I think that's what your DSis needs to remember, he's still the same person he was before she knew the number.

I agree with to look at your nephew's achievements not a one time test number. He's doing all around great, if he was never referred to for GATE they wouldn't have done the test and your DSis would have never known what his IQ number was.

At least here, they don't test in general. I have no clue what my DD & other DS IQ's are, there has never been a need for them to take an IQ test.

 

[PhotobearSam]

I know what you mean...If you knew any of the same managers I had at my last job, I would have bet that they had an IQ of 70 or below...

I know Doctors who are genius and some could not find genius with a dictionary.

I wish I knew what my Dad's IQ is. He only went to school till the 6th grade and then had to take over his Dad's farm because my grandfather was sick.

My Dad is a self made Millionaire that equates hard work with genius, and sees some people as "Book Smart but Work Dumb". He is the smartest person I know.

 

[stm61]

"Ds tested in the high 90's in school and is also ADHD and LD. He hates school and does as little as possible. He was retested a few years ago in the child psychologist's office. He scored between 140 and 160, depending on what subtest they were looking at. He continues to score D's, F's, and the occasional C in 8th grade."

God! I think he is my son's twin (also in eight grade), I forgot to mention that my son also has ADHD (as well as a learning disability).

What do you do? It worries me...he is a good kid, but I'm afraid that he is going to have a rough life, no motivation yet...I'm still hopeful that one day he will turn around and start liking school (no luck yet).

I pray that he will suddenly wake up and get a clue one day, preferrably BEFORE he flunks out of high school! There's not much you can do. I've tried encouraging, rewarding, threats, you name it, we've tried it. As I told the 6th grade teacher that thought he was gonna save this kid from himself, you can put the pencil in his hand, but you can't make him write. At least not without getting arrested for child abuse, because he flat out refuses to write. I keep in touch with all his teachers and am on a first name basis with the assistant principal, since I see him so frequently. The older he gets, the less cooperative the teachers seem to be about letting me know what he's doing or not doing. For 9th grade he is taking general classes, rather then the faster moving college prep classes. The counselor assures me that should he ever wake up, he can always switch. In SC they have to declare a major (like they have a clue at 13) for high school, like you do in college. The core classes are the same, only the electives are different, and that's mostly the last 2 yrs. His major is construction, to hopefully give him a skill if he doesn't go to college. His elective is ROTC, to hopefully give him some sense of responsibility. I swear if he manages to graduate, I'm walking across the stage with him! I got that idea from the head of our special ed dept, she wanted to walk with her own son last spring. I have heard from several mother's of boys that it isn't cool for boys to be smart in middle/jr high, maybe that's part of it.

 

[tw1nsmom]

For those who are having a challenging time with their children now (aren't we all on some level?). I just wanted to tell you about my brother. He graduated high school in the early 80's, barely. He came so close to failing in so many subjects it wasn't even funny. He spent some time at vocational training and back then you could go to school half days in your senior year if you were "interning" in a trade. I have no clue what his IQ is and he certainly wasn't diagnosed with a learning disability back then. It doesn't mean he didn't have one, just that they didn't disagnose things as often back then. My mom was ready to pull her hair out.

Fast forward 20+ years. He became an electrician by working his way up and into the union. Where school didn't motivate him, making money did. He now runs his own electrical contracting business and depending on the time of year and the contracts at hand he employs upwards of 200 people. I believe his company grossed over $15,000,000 last year. As I mentioned before, I have two degrees, am a stay at home mom by choice, but even if I did work I have no chance at making the kind of money my brother makes.

I guess my point is, even though we've talked about how IQ doesn't predetermine someones life career, you never know where your child's interests/strengths will lie. If your child wants to learn a trade instead of going to college, it may just be their road to success.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Good! I hope she never does. I think that your sister needs to move on. He is doing well in school. What more could she possibly want?

I know many children that have taken those tests and missed getting into the gifted program by a few points, my oldest was one of them. I think too much emphasis is placed on these gifted programs. I think that some parents view it as a personal badge of honor. I know a few like that.

Kids that are going to succeed in high school, college and life will do so in spite of not being in a gifted program. Success is about motivation and drive. Intelligence plays a part in it, but without motivation and desire, it won't happen.

That is my youngest dd, who is 10!!!

She tested twice for the gifted program, different schools. She was so sad she didn't make it. She gets irritated that the kids in the program "hate it" and also do poorly in school, gradewise.
She cannot for the life of her figure that out.

However, she marches on, motivated to do better than them and prides herself on success.

And yes she is only 10, but when you talk to her for the first time you cannot believe her vocabulary. It does seem odd, but she is a "writer" and talks that way too.

 

[rayelias]

While I was flipping through the channels last night watching TV, I saw something that immediately reminded me of this thread.


Rudy... Rudy... Rudy...


(I love that movie!)


I'll say it again, hard work, perseverence, determination, charisma, leadership - all much more important factors than IQ.