I need help making a Kindergarten decision

[iwrbnd]

I looked at the birthdays of the kindergarteners that made the gifted program in our school. They were almost all fall birthdays which made them the oldest. I'm sure those children were smart but where were the spring/summer kids? I think they were too young to truly see how smart they were. Our district doesn't test by your age but by your year in school.

 

[princessmom29]

I looked at the birthdays of the kindergarteners that made the gifted program in our school. They were almost all fall birthdays which made them the oldest. I'm sure those children were smart but where were the spring/summer kids? I think they were too young to truly see how smart they were. Our district doesn't test by your age but by your year in school.

They shouldn't be giving that test in K. It is too early to be reliable. IQ tests can vary as much as 20 points when given this early. We don't test until 2nd grade at the earliest.

ETA: Those tests are usually normed by grade. Having children who are older than they are supposed to be in that grade would also have skewed the results to exclude children who shouldn't have been

 

[imthatgirl]

Ther is no need to talk down to me. I am not stupid. Usually when a discussion like this turns personal someone has run out of ammo. I don't think you are getting the point. Iti s not about "3 days". Those 3 days don't matter obe way or the other. Held back or not that child would be fine. You 3 days become the next mom's 3 months. Her 3 months turns into the next mom's year. Who gets to say enough is enough? Do you really think it is ok to have a 7 year old who is capable of being in first grade in K just because his mom wants him to be? You pushing the boundary by a little justifies them pushing the boundary by a lot. I am not being dramatic at all. This is the reality of what is giong on right now in lots of classrooms. Age cutoffs are there for a reason, and I think everyone should abide by them. otherwise there is no limit to how long a child can be held back, and how far a parnet can abuse the system. They create enough diversity in the classroom due to age. There is a whole year there already and I feel like that is enough without adding to it just becuase. Children who truly need to be held back are few and far between and usually fit nito the ability level of the classroom. Yes, allowances should be made for achild that truly NEEDS to be held back, but that vast majority who ar held back DON'T need to be. Those kids introduce a completely new ability level into the classroom that the teacher then has to address. Why would you purposely introduce even more variance in ability level into a clasroom than already exists with a 1 year age span? It cuts down on the amount of instructional time EVERY child gets when there are even more vaired abilities a teacher has to cater to. Without a firm age cutoff there is no way to say who should be "allowed" to hold back and who should not. The natural tendency of most parents is to give thier chidl the best advantage by any means possible. There has to be a firm line drawn somewhere or people will continue to abuse the system, to the detriment of ALL our kids.
I have no need or desire to homeschool, and DD enjoys the school she is in. I would never choose that for my child. I love the fact that there so much cultural diversity there, and I do feel that some academic diversity in a classroom is a good thing. She goes to school with children of several different nationalities,and children whose first language is not English. I think it is wonderful that she is exposed to all the diferences that make the human race so rich. With a traditional grade level set up however, it is really difficult to deal with vastly different ability levels in the same classroom. Why would we want to intentionally set up a situation that makes it even more difficult for a teacher to provide our kids with a quality education? It seems foolish to me to sacrifice real learing for the sake of saying "look how diverse we are". Children that come into the situation with challenges are one thing, but I don't think parents should have the right to artificially introduce more.

Why do you keep over exaggerating the issue. NO ONE is waiting till there child is 7 to start Kindergarten.
Of curse every parent is going to give their child the very best advantage...IMO if you choose not too you are short changing your child. to me that's foolish. But for you to say that your child can't learn in an environment where there is one child that is a couple months older...well that's a personal problem not a classroom problem. Kids will stay back, they have for years and will for years to come. If your child can't over come that then your child is in the wrong place...not mine.
Again...it;s a few months in a public school.
But...maybe there is some truth to what a PP said. In some places red shirting is more prevalent. You said your kids go to inner city schools I think, and yes I would expect you to see less red shirting there. We live in an area where parents do make this decision often. Most moms do not work outside the home here so sending kids to school is not a must just because they age out of daycare. So because it is common place for kids to start late with a late birthday here, maybe thats why I think your POV is sooooo out there. Maybe if it were more common place there you wouldn't see it as such a "detrimental" thing. Since it's been happening here forever...I can see that kids have no problem with it. I can completely understand where it's foreign to you you don't understand it.

 

[ldo]

By the time I decided not to enroll my twins (July Bday) in K, all pre-Ks were full. However, there were 2 slots in a church K class. I sent them, thinking they would repeat K in public the next year (even told the teacher my plans). At mid-year, she said either K again or 1st would be OK for them----BUT at the end of the year conference, she said "PLEASE send them to 1st grade--they have mastered all the skills and are SO ready for it"---so we started 1st grade---this would not have been an option if we had done preK. They are in 3rd grade and doing fine.
I agree, it is a no-brainer. You might find that by the end of the year, your child is ready for 1st grade---or not--this way, you have either option. If mine had repeated, I was going to tell the twins that the prior year was "church school K" to get ready for K at the big school. Since several kids on the block missed the cut-off (9/30), they went to preK anyway, even though they are about the same age. As long as it is a different school, at this age, I don't think it will be an issue.

 

[imthatgirl]

So by your logic we should segregate kids in what incrament for it to be fair? 3 months,?? 1 month???, or is it only fair when yours is the oldest?? You are not making it so they are not at a disadvantage, but giving them and unfair advantage over next year's kids. How is it fair for the youngest kid in the class that yours is now MORE than a year older than him???

lol, where did you get the impression that my child would be the oldest in the class.

 

[brymolmom]

It's no where close to an even playing ground for my child...sure it;'s great for yours, but mine is a whole year younger then the other kids. I don't know why you can't see that?
the compulsory age for my state...and like you said most states is 6. So why would starting K when a child just turns 6 not be considered within the law? and actually completely following the law?
I think it;s ridiculous to expand the law to 5. Not all kids are ready fro school at that age...and good for the states for recognizing that.
If you really wanted it even for all kids then you wouldn't be against a child starting with kids his own age. Which is all me and the OP are doing. We making it so our kids don't have a disadvantage.

It is as even as it can be - all kids within a 12 month difference. By people doing what you are - it perpetuates larger differences, thus penalizing those who are sent on time. Yes, today it is within the law. I just think the law needs to expand to include Kindergarten - which is not required in many places right now, but IMO should be and an age requirement should be made for it.

Oh and BTW- if every other parent hold back their child - yours would STILL be the youngest. So really don't you at least want it to be only a 12 month difference if still ends up happening that your child is youngest?

I'm not thinking alone about what is best for my child - I'm thinking about what is most fair/best for the WHOLE class. I know - many, many people don't care about any but their own child so it sometimes isn't a popular view.

 

[Kit'smommy]

And our biggest concern had little to do with if he ready now. It had more to do with will he be a leader or not, will he be immature as he gets older compared to his peers in school (more around Jr high than kindergarten) So my concern is not about is he ready now I think he is probably average in his class. We know he does not misbehave, his teacher has explained to us that he knows how to play with the kids in his class and has a small group of friends but he waits for kids to approach him he does not approach the other kids outside of his small group.

OP, I have a very shy, immature child. He has been shy and immature for his age every stage of the way. He is an absolute angel in class and has been in trouble exactly twice for very minor things in pre-K and K-5 (pushing someone to get her attention and throwing legos after one of the other kids started throwing them). He also waits to be approached by other kids. He isn't a leader. I don't think it is in his personality to be one and no amount of holding him back is going to change the fact that he is the way he is.

I would look at whether or not he can handle the work, has the stamina to get through at long school day and can emotionally deal with what he needs to as a kindergartener.

 

[imthatgirl]

It is as even as it can be - all kids within a 12 month difference. By people doing what you are - it perpetuates larger differences, thus penalizing those who are sent on time. Yes, today it is within the law. I just think the law needs to expand to include Kindergarten - which is not required in many places right now, but IMO should be and an age requirement should be made for it.

Oh and BTW- if every other parent hold back their child - yours would STILL be the youngest. So really don't you at least want it to be only a 12 month difference if still ends up happening that your child is youngest?

I'm not thinking alone about what is best for my child - I'm thinking about what is most fair/best for the WHOLE class. I know - many, many people don't care about any but their own child so it sometimes isn't a popular view.

12 months is HUGE. So what you are saying is that since my child is 12 months younger then the other kids...he should just suck it up because we wouldn;t want him to b a few days older then the others. It makes no sense.

Like I said in previous posts. I don't care if every parent on the planet chose to keep their child back. I am keeping mt child back because it is what is best for him...so even if he started his year as the youngest kid in K next year instead of this year, great. He is still starting the year I wanted him to start.
I'm not as hung up in age as some of you. I feel education is a personal thing. I don't group kids by age and expect that a child perform just because his bday is with in a certain time. Instead I pay attention to when my child is ready.
I have a daughter who is a late June Bday. She is the youngest in her class, we didn't wait on her. Because she could handle that. My son, we're choosing to keep him back, he's just way too close to the cut off.
It's a personal decision...sorry if that bothers you. But it really has nothing to do with you.

 

[ldo]

Private K was the best decision we ever made. Plus, the small class size allowed the teacher to focus on the kids' individual needs. I cannot say that we would have grasped phonics and reading if we had gone to public K with 28 kids in the class.

 

[brymolmom]

12 months is HUGE. So what you are saying is that since my child is 12 months younger then the other kids...he should just suck it up because we wouldn;t want him to b a few days older then the others. It makes no sense.

Like I said in previous posts. I don't care if every parent on the planet cose to keep their child back. I am keeping mt child back because it is what is best for him...so even if he started his year as the youngest kid in K next year instead of this year, great. He is still starting the year I wantes him to start.
I'm not as hung up ion age as some of you. I feel education is a personal thing. I don;t group kids by age and expect that a child perform just because his bday is with in a certain time. Instead I like pay attention to when my child is ready.
I ahve a daughter who is a late June Bday. She is the youngest in her class, we didn;t wait on her. Because she could handle that. My son, we're choosing to keep him back, he's just way too close to the cut off.
It's a personal decision...sorry if that bothers you. But it really has nothing to do with you/

Yes it does....It affects my child in that classroom when it is now a class full of should be first graders - affects her learning, her interaction with her teacher, and even worse if that child then supposedly needs 'challenging'. That's why it bothers me.

And I don't know why you say a few days older?? What about a child with the exact same bday as yours who sends on time? That child is a full year younger than yours - and other redshirted kids even older than your child are more than a year older than that child. So it isn't about days - obviously that wouldn't be an issue.

And I'm not saying your child should suck up anything - your child should be in a classroom with kids within a year of his/her age. Just like mine SHOULD be - but since redshirting occurs - she is in a class with kids 13 - 15 months older than she is.

 

[princessmom29]

Why do you keep over exaggerating the issue. NO ONE is waiting till there child is 7 to start Kindergarten.
Of curse every parent is going to give their child the very best advantage...IMO if you choose not too you are short changing your child. to me that's foolish. But for you to say that your child can't learn in an environment where there is one child that is a couple months older...well that's a personal problem not a classroom problem. Kids will stay back, they have for years and will for years to come. If your child can't over come that then your child is in the wrong place...not mine.
Again...it;s a few months in a public school.
But...maybe there is some truth to what a PP said. In some places red shirting is more prevalent. You said your kids go to inner city schools I think, and yes I would expect you to see less red shirting there. We live in an area where parents do make this decision often. Most moms do not work outside the home here so sending kids to school is not a must just because they age out of daycare. So because it is common place for kids to start late with a late birthday here, maybe thats why I think your POV is sooooo out there. Maybe if it were more common place there you wouldn't see it as such a "detrimental" thing. Since it's been happening here forever...I can see that kids have no problem with it. I can completely understand where it's foreign to you you don't understand it.

YES people ARE waiting until their child is 7 to send them to K. There are 2 in my DD's class at a small private school ,and it is becoming more and more common. Just becuase lots of people are doing it doesn't make it right. I don't know why stating that fact is being dramatic. It is NOT just about a couple of months!!!!!!! I NEVER said my child cannot learn in an environment wher one child is a couple months older, but that having a 2 year age span in a clasroom makes in harder for EVERYONE to leanr. Why do you KEEP misstating that??? Can you show me where I said it becuase I am simply not seeing it. The large age difference in DD's classroom presents a very real problem that I have seen first hand, and I don't think it should be allowed. It is not really effecting my child that much because she is getting what she needs and doing well, but the ones who are struggling wouldn't be struggling as much without the added discipline and enrichment challenges these two boys present. It is keeping THOSE kids from performing to thier full potential. If i ahd my way DD would have started last year and been one of the youngest inthe class, becuase I felt that she was academically ready. She didn't meet the age requirments so we waited.

My sister teaches in inner city schools, where the kids have no preschool, go on time, and age doesn't seem to play a role in achievment. There is no reason to hold a child with the advantages of parents who care back. They will be fine in all but the most unusual of cases. If a just turned 5 year old inner city child with no preschool who doesn't know their colors and shapes, let alone letters or numbers, or have a clue about proper classrooom behavior is getting it and passing K, then I fail to see any reason that a just turned 5 year old with all of those skills already in place wouldn't be ok.

 

[Mkrop]

Why do you keep over exaggerating the issue. NO ONE is waiting till there child is 7 to start Kindergarten.
Of curse every parent is going to give their child the very best advantage...IMO if you choose not too you are short changing your child. to me that's foolish. But for you to say that your child can't learn in an environment where there is one child that is a couple months older...well that's a personal problem not a classroom problem. Kids will stay back, they have for years and will for years to come. If your child can't over come that then your child is in the wrong place...not mine.
Again...it;s a few months in a public school.
But...maybe there is some truth to what a PP said. In some places red shirting is more prevalent. You said your kids go to inner city schools I think, and yes I would expect you to see less red shirting there. We live in an area where parents do make this decision often. Most moms do not work outside the home here so sending kids to school is not a must just because they age out of daycare. So because it is common place for kids to start late with a late birthday here, maybe thats why I think your POV is sooooo out there. Maybe if it were more common place there you wouldn't see it as such a "detrimental" thing. Since it's been happening here forever...I can see that kids have no problem with it. I can completely understand where it's foreign to you you don't understand it.

This is not a foriegn concept where I live as you can see by the examples I gave of kids in both of my kids' classes and yes it does skew the classroom dynamics.

12 months is HUGE. So what you are saying is that since my child is 12 months younger then the other kids...he should just suck it up because we wouldn;t want him to b a few days older then the others. It makes no sense.

Like I said in previous posts. I don't care if every parent on the planet chose to keep their child back. I am keeping mt child back because it is what is best for him...so even if he started his year as the youngest kid in K next year instead of this year, great. He is still starting the year I wanted him to start.
I'm not as hung up in age as some of you. I feel education is a personal thing. I don't group kids by age and expect that a child perform just because his bday is with in a certain time. Instead I pay attention to when my child is ready.
I have a daughter who is a late June Bday. She is the youngest in her class, we didn't wait on her. Because she could handle that. My son, we're choosing to keep him back, he's just way too close to the cut off.
It's a personal decision...sorry if that bothers you. But it really has nothing to do with you.

It is a personal decision and I respect that and maybe for your kid it is the best decision but to say it has nothing to do with the 20+ other children in the class is very shortsighted.

With the way things are going around here, your DD with the June bday could actually wind up being one of the youngest and the child sitting next to her could be a whole year older.

 

[skw444]

We were faced with this same decision for our dd. Her birthday is Aug 29 and the cutoff here is Sept 1. However, school starts Aug 9. So, she would've been 4 years old when she actually started Kindergarten. We made the decision to send her to a private school that offered a Transitional Kindergarten class...a class designed for kids who had already done Pre-K but weren't ready for Kindergarten yet. In our opinion, this was the best thing that we did for her. She is now in first grade and doing well...not the smartest student in the class but also not lagging behind like some of the kids. She knows that she did 2 years of Kindergarten but that she wasn't "held back". She has a friend in her class that has an Aug 24 birthday and her mom chose to start her in Kindergarten on time and is now talking with the prinicipal about having her repeat 1st grade...she is so far behind all the other kids in the class. I think that 12 months...even 6 months makes a huge difference in development at this young of an age.

 

[deerhart]

Wow. After reading all of this- I am so glad my DS1 decided to stay in my womb that extra week! He is a late Sept baby and misses the cut off date by like a week and a half tops. So he will be one of the oldest in his class- better than the youngest I guess... I would probably have chosen to keep him back anyway. Not sure at this point. He is a little too young to worry about it! And either way, the state decided that for me. Or maybe my DS chose Maybe that's why he was late!

no not always. Here all extracurriculars (even outside of school) are done by grade level currently in NOT by age. So my currently 7.5yo 1st grader who is as big as his 10yo brother is playing baseball with kids in kindy and 1st grade. So the age range on his team is 5.5 to 7.5 yo... not only does he tower above the rest of the team, but jut his physical skills are way above those that are not yet 5 and just turned 6. We are always trying to move him up a level.

We had no choice as the state the year we could have started him in private kindy closed the loophole. Before, you could start a child who turned 5 during the school year in private kindy and then move them to public 1st grade the next year. The state got upset about parents doing this so closed the loop hole and would not accept a child into 1st grade unless they were 6 by the cut off date.

One more thing about holding kids back a year. It can give kids a competitive advantage later on in sports, academics etc because they are competing with kids over a year younger then them in the same class. We already see this issue with my late october b-day boy, can you imagine if he was a January or March baby instead and was already 8 and in 1st grade!

Finally, my 7 yo boy has less in common with the other 1st grade boys in his class. He has more in common with the 2nd and 3rd grade boys. He's more social then his classmates, more mature, and being older he gets exposed to much different things then his grade level classmates.

Yes there always has to be a cutoff point, I just wish there were ways to bend those for some kids, so one like mine, can be more with peers he has more in common with.

Mind you were were urged by my oldest son's first school to hold him back a year, but we just couldn't see him being anywhere from 4 months older (right after cutoff) then other children in his class to being 1.5 years older (right before cutoff) versus being in the middle of the class age wise. I mean he would be taking drivers ed at the end of 8th grade!

 

[princessmom29]

lol, where did you get the impression that my child would be the oldest in the class.

you are holding him back a year. That would make him one of the oldest, if not the oldest, if NO OONE is really holding back anyone more than the closest to the cutoff. Unless peolpe really ARE sending 7 year olds to K yours would be one of the oldes at just turned 6 when K starts. Anyone more that a couple months older would be turning 7 in K.

 

[princessmom29]

no not always. Here all extracurriculars (even outside of school) are done by grade level currently in NOT by age. So my currently 7.5yo 1st grader who is as big as his 10yo brother is playing baseball with kids in kindy and 1st grade. So the age range on his team is 5.5 to 7.5 yo... not only does he tower above the rest of the team, but jut his physical skills are way above those that are not yet 5 and just turned 6. We are always trying to move him up a level.

We had no choice as the state the year we could have started him in private kindy closed the loophole. Before, you could start a child who turned 5 during the school year in private kindy and then move them to public 1st grade the next year. The state got upset about parents doing this so closed the loop hole and would not accept a child into 1st grade unless they were 6 by the cut off date.

One more thing about holding kids back a year. It can give kids a competitive advantage later on in sports, academics etc because they are competing with kids over a year younger then them in the same class. We already see this issue with my late october b-day boy, can you imagine if he was a January or March baby instead and was already 8 and in 1st grade!

Finally, my 7 yo boy has less in common with the other 1st grade boys in his class. He has more in common with the 2nd and 3rd grade boys. He's more social then his classmates, more mature, and being older he gets exposed to much different things then his grade level classmates.

Yes there always has to be a cutoff point, I just wish there were ways to bend those for some kids, so one like mine, can be more with peers he has more in common with.

Mind you were were urged by my oldest son's first school to hold him back a year, but we just couldn't see him being anywhere from 4 months older (right after cutoff) then other children in his class to being 1.5 years older (right before cutoff) versus being in the middle of the class age wise. I mean he would be taking drivers ed at the end of 8th grade!

Sports are that way here too. I don't think it is fair for a 7.5 year old to be competing against a 5.5 year old! That is another reason it should be a strict 12 month span. It doesn't effect us as DD dances and is not a sports girl, so I hadn't thought of it.
What you are saying about your child are all the reasons I wanted my DD in K last year. Her dance class is mostly 1st graders, and she really enjoys it. We chose to abide by the rules, however and she is alright.

 

[imthatgirl]

you are holding him back a year. That would make him one of the oldest, if not the oldest, if NO OONE is really holding back anyone more than the closest to the cutoff. Unless peolpe really ARE sending 7 year olds to K yours would be one of the oldes at just turned 6 when K starts. Anyone more that a couple months older would be turning 7 in K.

I certainly am not inventing red shirting, it's very common here. There will also be kids who have to stay back, just like there are every year in all schools. My child would hardly be the oldest, lol.
My child will be 6 in K....just like ALL the other kids, if started this september he would not turn six in K unlike all the rest of the kids.
so we are choosing to keep him with his age group. He will be 7 in 1st...just like all the other kids in his class. Weird how that works huh?

 

[imthatgirl]

This is not a foriegn concept where I live as you can see by the examples I gave of kids in both of my kids' classes and yes it does skew the classroom dynamics.




It is a personal decision and I respect that and maybe for your kid it is the best decision but to say it has nothing to do with the 20+ other children in the class is very shortsighted.

With the way things are going around here, your DD with the June bday could actually wind up being one of the youngest and the child sitting next to her could be a whole year older.

My daughter is the youngest in the class, but neither her nor I have a problem with that. she excels in her class so she was put into the right environment. It's my job as a parent to find that perfect place for my child. for my son that means waiting.
I'm sorry, but I have never heard a parent say "well my kid didn't do all that well in class....but I did what was best for the other 20 kids and I'm so happy they are excelling".
No...you do whats best for your child. If you're not then 'i honestly think you are missing the boat in educating your child. Because your child's education really is only about them.

 

[2poohbears]

I really would suggest that you go observe in the classroom at the schools you are considering. Talk with the teachers about what their expectations are in Kindy...see for yourself the kind of work they do in Kindy. Once you have done that, you will really know what is right for your child. I know it opened my eyes when I had to decide. Also...After talking with friends, from around the country and also locally between private and public schools, I find there can be BIG DIFFERENCES in expectations.

My twins were preemies, and they have low muscle tone. As a result, they are behind their peers in both fine and gross motor development. They really needed more work in this area in order to be ready for regular Kindy this year. Also, our private Kindy had homework every night (mostly math, reading, and handwriting), while the public school here only had their students write their names and letters of the alphabet for homework. Last year, my boys would have been nowhere near ready to do the amount of homework required by our private school. I felt they would have become frustrated, and fallen farther behind. The developmental Kindy class they were placed in was a "stepping stone"... they had fewer students (14 as opposed to 24), more center time than regular Kindy, but less than pre-k...they were also working more on handwriting & reading than the pre-k class. Their only homework was to read a book a week at home (we already did lots of reading at home), and practice writing their name and alphabet.

I know I made the right decision for my children, because they have done well this year and are happy. They continue to love school, and although they still need work on their fine and gross motor skills, I have seen a lot of improvement.

I prefer a child centered approach to educational decisions, not something based solely on numerical age.

 

[princessmom29]

I certainly am not inventing red shirting, it's very common here. There will also be kids who have to stay back, just like there are every year in all schools. My child would hardly be the oldest, lol.
My child will be 6 in K....just like ALL the other kids, if started this september he would not turn six in K unlike all the rest of the kids.
so we are choosing to keep him with his age group. He will be 7 in 1st...just like all the other kids in his class. Weird how that works huh?

That is not how is SHOULD work though according to the cutoff. If ALL of the children in your child's class are truly 6 then they are all redshirting and the playing feild has been leveled within the class, but it is not just a local problem. Most children in K SHOULD be 5 for most to all of K. NO ONE should start K at 6 already. If that is the way EVERYONE is doing it, then the cutoff should be changed to 6 by Sept 1 so that those who do choose to follow the rules are not being penalized for it. It is also a national issue as standardized test scores are normed nationally. Your 6 and 7 year olds' scores are being compared to or 5 and 6 year olds, and that is unfair. It should be one or the other. Mabye that is why the South lags behind??? All our kids are a year younger than in other areas.