From the ever-popular Fireside Chat with @SouthFayetteFan series comes a new edition:
A Comment on Chase and Pacing: Why 3 months??
So a lot of discussion recently about pacing with Chase and as you know, I'm obsessed with Chase pacing and velocity recommendations. I basically eat, sleep and breathe Chase pacing recommendations, lol!!
Some issuers have hard rules on pacing - Citi for example will flat out deny you for a 2nd biz card if you don't wait 90 days (typically recommended at 95 to provide a buffer). With regards to Chase there are 2 rules we know of:
- The 2/30 rule which means that you cannot apply for more than two personal Chase credit cards measured over any 30 day period
- And the 0/30 rule which means that you will get denied a Chase Biz card if you have been approved for any (personal or business) Chase cards in the last 30 days
So in a vacuum you could say...WOW I can go for a Chase Biz Card on day 1, a Chase personal card on day 2, wait 30 days and repeat this, right??
Wrong! You see, the scary thing about Chase is, if they decide that they don't like your application velocity they will SHUT. YOU. DOWN. And no, that doesn't mean they'll deny you. It means they will shut all of your cards down, give you 30 days to use your points, and cease doing business with you. To a churner under 5/24
this is basically a death sentence! People get shutdown for going too fast, things like 3 cards in 2 months, 5 cards in 4 months, 6 cards in a year, can all lead to a Chase Shutdown.
Also, I would always count my months/days from APPROVAL date. That's the date that shows up on your credit report and the date that counts.
So how do you avoid this? You watch your pacing. I'll dig out an old comment for a bunch of pacing recommendations I made back in February:
- Minimum 2 months between applications of 2 Chase Personal Cards (only exception would be a modified double dip which requires two cards in 2 days - and in that instance I would attempt to have a "quiet" credit report for the preceding 3-4 months)
- minimum 3 months between applications of 2 Chase Biz Cards
- minimum 2 months between applications of a Chase Biz Card (first) and a Chase Personal card (second)
- Ideally a minimum 3 month "quiet" period before any Chase business application (2 months potentially ok though)
- You also want to watch how many other issuer applications you're putting in and what inquiries that is putting out there. AMEX seems to sometimes not do a hard pull which is nice. EXAMPLE: You may want to exercise caution applying for a Chase card with inquiries from AMEX, Citi and Wells Fargo in the past 3 weeks...
- Watch out for showing high balances on your credit report - consider paying down cards early (especially in the weeks preceding an application)
- Keep in mind that Chase can see ALL personal cards you applied for. Don't go hog wild with 4 new cards from other issuers and then think they'll be perfectly fine to give you another card (we don't have anybody here that really appears to be doing that)
- It still does not seem that TOTAL Chase cards plays any role in this, I have 7 open Chase cards and my wife has 10 and I don't have a lot of worry there.
- I would continue to reduce Credit Limits and keep them at a reasonable level - it's harder to be a "huge credit risk" if I don't have large limits that I could rack up and "bust-out" on...
So again you might ask, why 3 months?? 3 Months ensures that you will never run afoul of the overall pacing recommendations over the course of a 6, 12, or 24 month span.
So there's no HARD rule about 3 months?? No, there is not. As I said before, the only rules are 1/30 and 2/30.
Is it ok to not wait 3 months?? On occasion...YES. But here's what you need to watch - if you find yourself constantly pushing the envelope, applying at day 75, day 70, day 65; eventually you will have gotten too many cards in too short a time:
- Placing 90 days between cards means you will get no more than 4 chase cards in a 1 year span
- Assuming perhaps that you do a MDD one time in the year for some reason then you'd have gotten 5 chase cards in a 1 year span, still ok.
- If you condense that timeline to 75 days you'll find yourself getting 5 cards in a year (maybe 6 with a MDD mixed in).
- If you condense that timeline to 60 days you may find yourself now exceeding 6 cards in a year...now you're entering the danger zone.
- Even in short spurts this can be dangerous...if you do a MDD or even just do a personal card and a biz card a couple weeks apart and then come back with another card 60 days later and then another, you've now gotten 4 cards in 6 months. While you are raking in the points, is your future churning career earning opportunities worth the short term haul? I personally say no.
So that's where Citi Biz and Amex Biz cards can be your friend. If you find yourself without a MSR but not ready per the Chase pacing guidelines then mix in one of those cards or find something else to distract yourself. And if you find yourself at 75 days and deeply in need of a Chase card and you've followed ALL pacing guidelines up to this point, then you're probably safe to pull the trigger. Just don't let this become a habit. Maybe I should add one more bullet point above:
- It's ok to break the Chase pacing guidlines once in awhile but avoid doing it on consecutive card applications and avoid doing it more than twice in a year. And always wait as long as possible.
So there are some more thoughts on pacing and velocity. I find this especially of interest right now with the SW Performance Biz bonus reportedly decreasing in just 5-6 days and also due to the exposure the SW CP is getting right now and people's interest in trying to get that 2nd SW cards in less than 3 months.
As always, you can PM me about your personal pacing situation at any time and I will give you my read on it! Good Luck to all and hopefully this information is helpful!
EDIT: And because I generally don't trust people to be disciplined and do things in moderation, we've basically drawn a line in the sand of WAIT 3 MONTHS! This is probably especially helpful to newbies who really want to grab 6 cards in the first month because they want ALL. THE. POINTS. So I will continue to always say 3 months between Chase cards, because it is absolutely safe and easier to remember than the 20+ bullet points I've outlined throughout this post. But if you're capable of critical thinking and managing yourself in moderation then feel free to adjust your timing within your risk tolerance.
Work has been stressful the past 2 weeks, I thought I was headed to bed early tonight lol
Do you know how much time I spent changing passwords on a zillion smart TV's, tablets, phones, etc?!?!
....yeah did not check the calendar on that one). We were going to do another 6 nights at Reunion in a rental house with the thinking that if parks were crazy, unmanageable, packed, or miserable with all current changes we could at the very least stroll over to the water park and float on the lazy river and still have a nice trip. Rental houses cost a little more in Reunion but you get the WP access so it's worth it, right? I have been scouring the internet for an eternity looking at places and finally found one that said it had 'preferred partner WP access' so I booked last night--6 nights in a swanky little place for just over $2k. After I get the confirmation email it then specifies that you have to pay at the gate for WP access ($18 adults,$12 kids) PLUS a $25 registration fee per day to book your WP day that is non changeable or refundable, with a max of 1-2 WP visits. So if it's 70 degrees and raining we are committed regardless and would lose the $25 if we changed our mind. If we do go it's $151 for our party of 8...The pool heat is adds $238. So now we are up to $2400.
(and honestly there are people out there that would probably put me to shame)...
