I Just Got Fired - Long.

[stitchlilo]

It seems to me it would create an atmosphere of fear. I read posts all the time on this board about people being mistreated by their employer (verbally abused, etc) but being afraid to react in case they are fired because they work in an "at will" state.

What makes at will "wonderful"? Wonderful for an employer, yes, I imagine it is.

I have always been treated wonderful by my employers. There is no fear tactics for me.

 

[Magic Mom]

What exactly is a "Come to Jesus" talk? I am a lapsed Catholic and am not really sure what this means.
TIA!

LOL I don't know about anyone else, but when I use the term "come to Jesus meetin' " it usually refers to my kids, and they are in big trouble. Sort like a meet your maker meeting....the final straw before death.
I never heard it much before we transfered here (KY), but it's stuck now.

 

[DevilDuckie]

I thought it stunk b/c of the pee

I will PM you the address to which you may send my new monitor. This one has Monster and boogers on it.

 

[wilderness01]

Was that person a Southerner? I have never heard a Yankee use that expression and it sounds either Southern or Evangelical Christian.

My friend is a northerner and uses the "come to Jesus meeting" all the time with her kids. She is also a catholic.

 

[daisax]

I'm a New Englander and have used it for years, but I'm pretty sure I just picked it up from tv, because I don't recall it being used by my parents' generation at all.

I will continue to do a good job, hand in "perfect" graphs and flawless work. I care way too much about the quality of my work to hand in something that's just "good enough". Anybody can do good enough, only a few of us excel.

There's an expression about "perfect" being "the enemy of good." Sometimes you work something to death and it's not an improvement, plus it keeps you from moving forward in other areas.

If you hired somebody to paint your home and he was the finest painter in the universe, but 3 months into the job was still on the first shutter, you wouldn't care how perfect the shutter looked.

I've never worked in an office where anybody had the luxury of not juggling multiple projects at once, bosses or workers. And people who obsessed over minutiae don't last, because they don't carry their weight.

 

[bananiem]

There's an expression about "perfect" being "the enemy of good." Sometimes you work something to death and it's not an improvement, plus it keeps you from moving forward in other areas.

If you hired somebody to paint your home and he was the finest painter in the universe, but 3 months into the job was still on the first shutter, you wouldn't care how perfect the shutter looked.

I've never worked in an office where anybody had the luxury of not juggling multiple projects at once, bosses or workers. And people who obsessed over minutiae don't last, because they don't carry their weight.

Excellent analogy!!

 

[kinntj]

All this talk about being "perfect". In your little world you are so perfect, but what we see from what you post is completely different. We "see" someone who can't work with people or communicate very well. Hmmm...not very efficient either. Yeah, you're the pick of the crop.

As far as your last job or this one for that matter, this could all be made up or parts of it and we wouldn't know the difference. So go ahead and talk more about how great you are.

 

[tinkerbell1967]

LOL I don't know about anyone else, but when I use the term "come to Jesus meetin' " it usually refers to my kids, and they are in big trouble. Sort like a meet your maker meeting....the final straw before death.
I never heard it much before we transfered here (KY), but it's stuck now.

When my old boss had to go in with the management team he would refer to it as "I'm goin to church"! Had never heard this before!

 

[jack hannah bananah]

Of course not. I never said that, and I don't know where you got that idea.

I said your labour laws are geared to help employers, not employees. The idea that an employer can just fire somebody because they feel like it (in these "at will" states) blows my mind.

This is confusing to me because I have never known a boss to fire someone because they feel like it. The bosses I know fire people because they are not doing their job. Even then, they struggle over it for a while. No one likes to fire people, and no one is going to fire someone who is doing a good job (even if they don't care for them personally - as long as they are professional and respectful.)

 

[Michelle67]

I've worked in an at-will state my entire working life (26 years working), and never once been fired for "no reason." I have only been let go once, and I admitted right then and there that I deserved to be let go. My attitude stunk, and I knew it. I was 19 at the time, and it taught me a valuable lesson about doing your job and collecting your check, and not fussing about what you think you should or shouldn't be doing (as long as it is legal). If you are unhappy at work, you find another job; you don't go around with a bad attitude. Simple as that, lesson learned.

To me, "at will" employment works out to be similar to "no fault" divorce. Just because it is a no fault divorce state doesn't mean that people get divorced for absolutely no reason, it just means that they are not confined to a narrowly defined list of acceptable reasons. Same holds true for termination in at will employment. There usually IS a reason, it's just that they don't have to pick from a list of acceptable reasons and document them to protect themselves.

 

[Mom2Nick]

How so?

It seems to me it would create an atmosphere of fear. I read posts all the time on this board about people being mistreated by their employer (verbally abused, etc) but being afraid to react in case they are fired because they work in an "at will" state.

What makes at will "wonderful"? Wonderful for an employer, yes, I imagine it is.

Wonderful because an unhappy employee can leave at any time also with notice or without. Wonderful because at-will employment means that companies have an easier time to get rid of the free loading jerks that don't do their jobs, which in turn makes life easier for other employees. If you are fearful about your job - it can only be because you know you're not pulling yoru weight and doing the absolute best job possible. If you work hard and you prove yourself there's nothing to worry about.

 

[FayeW]

Wonderful because an unhappy employee can leave at any time also with notice or without. Wonderful because at-will employment means that companies have an easier time to get rid of the free loading jerks that don't do their jobs, which in turn makes life easier for other employees. If you are fearful about your job - it can only be because you know you're not pulling yoru weight and doing the absolute best job possible. If you work hard and you prove yourself there's nothing to worry about.

Then how come I read posts on this board every month from people who's bosses are absolute jerks, or who are forced to work overtime (sometimes unpaid) or have supervisors who are verbally abusive to them and they are afraid to "make waves" or say anything incase they are accused of being trouble makers or labelled "difficult" and will lose their jobs because it is "at will"?

We have all read those posts. Many times the response to the OPs is "suck it up, do what the boss tells you, you are in an at will state and if you don't toe the line you will be fired". Seems like an awful way to live, frankly, being afraid to make people treat you fairly and decently in case you lose your job.

 

[barkley]

Be careful...

Nothing good comes out of situations like this. Transferring may be difficult, also, once they let others know what kind of worker you are.

I'd rather have a thousand employees with good attitudes than one with a smart mouth who does "excellent work".

very true.

i had a co-worker who decided she did'nt approve of what her boss was doing and went over her head to managment. granted, the boss was'nt the best but it was the boss's boss whose job it was to monitor her work-and he was, and it was getting done despite what the employee believed. the co-worker's attitude was so long as top managment was happy with her she did'nt care what her current boss thought of her. what she did'nt consider was that top managment would not always be top managment and those that were observing her actions (other co-workers, other supervisors) might someday promote into those positions. as time went by the employee could'nt figure out why she was never selected for the choice transfers, why she never got promoted into supervision-it was clear to everyone else, if she could act in that manner with the one boss, anyone else who supervised her was opening themselves up for the same scruitiny and critisism and attitude (she made inappropriate comments similar to those the op has mentioned) even if they were'nt doing the same things they did'nt want to have to waste time answering to whomever she complained to. eventualy she quit after she saw too many people hired long after her promoted into the positions she desired. she ended up moving to another state because in the profession i worked in it was'nt uncommon for people to move from one employer to another within the region-word traveled with those people regarding the actions of those they left behind.

 

[barkley]

Wonderful because an unhappy employee can leave at any time also with notice or without. Wonderful because at-will employment means that companies have an easier time to get rid of the free loading jerks that don't do their jobs, which in turn makes life easier for other employees. If you are fearful about your job - it can only be because you know you're not pulling yoru weight and doing the absolute best job possible. If you work hard and you prove yourself there's nothing to worry about.

employees in non at will states are'nt required to give advance notice of separation unless they have entered into a contract to do so (it's common courtesy to give 2 weeks but not required).

the issue i have with at-will labor laws is a person can be doing their job and an employer (or supervisor) with a personal agenda can terminate for absolutly no reason causing an unexplainable black mark on an employee's otherwise pristene employment history.

case in point-i know of someone who applied for a job that he was overqualified for. he wanted to move into a job that was in the same type of work he had done before but a different setting. 4th morning on the job, about 2 hours into it his boss calls him into her office and hands him a letter terminating him. he asks what the reason is, she says 'i don't have to give you a reason, you are an at will employee'. he asks if she can give him an idea because on the 3 previous days as well as that morning she had commended him on catching on so quickly and doing well. she just says 'you're at will'. a call from home later in the day to h/r finds the analyst only willing to tell him that the first day the boss had advised them she was going to terminate but would'nt elaborate beyond 'it's my choice'. that person now has a termination on an otherwise spottless employment record, and because it was with a government linked employer he has to list it on any resumes or applications he files with government or government linked jobs (required in that profession). he can't give a reason for his termination, but having been fired day 4 makes it look as though he did something horrendous.

i agree that it's hard to terminate in a non at-will state (i lived through hell because of this with a couple of my employees), but i believe that even in an at-will state there should be some obligation that an employer has to document some cause otherwise the supervisor who is intimidated by a new employee, or is in actuality acting in an illegal manner (as i suspect this one was because it was an all female office and as soon as the man was terminated the position was downgraded such to open it up to a larger female dominated applicant work pool) is held to no level of accountability.

 

[Maleficent13]

Then how come I read posts on this board every month from people who's bosses are absolute jerks, or who are forced to work overtime (sometimes unpaid) or have supervisors who are verbally abusive to them and they are afraid to "make waves" or say anything incase they are accused of being trouble makers or labelled "difficult" and will lose their jobs because it is "at will"?

We have all read those posts. Many times the response to the OPs is "suck it up, do what the boss tells you, you are in an at will state and if you don't toe the line you will be fired". Seems like an awful way to live, frankly, being afraid to make people treat you fairly and decently in case you lose your job.

See the thing with at will states is, if you encounter any of the situations in your first paragraph, you are at will to simply get up, walk out, and never return. Your employer can do nothing about it. You cannot be sued for breach of contract. You really are in control...the choices are the employees as well as the employers.

If you are in an untenable work environment, you can find something else and leave with absolutely no repercussions. So it does help the employees as well.

 

[barkley]

See the thing with at will states is, if you encounter any of the situations in your first paragraph, you are at will to simply get up, walk out, and never return. Your employer can do nothing about it. You cannot be sued for breach of contract. You really are in control...the choices are the employees as well as the employers.

If you are in an untenable work environment, you can find something else and leave with absolutely no repercussions. So it does help the employees as well.

you can do the same in a non at-will state with absolutly no repercussions. the only exception is when the employee has agreed through a private contract to do otherwise-and that is a rare situation. in years of interviewing and hiring the only time i ever encountered individuals who had these types of contracts were those who had obligated themselves to work for a set period of time in exchange for their employer paying for their education (in entirety including continued pay while they were off their normal job for months at a time attending school). in those cases the contract read that the employee had to work for a set amount of time in whatever they had been educated in or reimburse the employer. even in those cases if the employee was subjected to illegal working conditions or rules they could quit (most contracts read if there was good cause as determined by the labor board to quit the contract was null and void).

 

[Mom2Nick]

Then how come I read posts on this board every month from people who's bosses are absolute jerks, or who are forced to work overtime (sometimes unpaid) or have supervisors who are verbally abusive to them and they are afraid to "make waves" or say anything incase they are accused of being trouble makers or labelled "difficult" and will lose their jobs because it is "at will"?

We have all read those posts. Many times the response to the OPs is "suck it up, do what the boss tells you, you are in an at will state and if you don't toe the line you will be fired". Seems like an awful way to live, frankly, being afraid to make people treat you fairly and decently in case you lose your job.

They are free to leave without penalty and not have to endure "jerks" and "unpaid overtime". Staying in that situation is always a choice.

 

[stitchlilo]

The great results of this thread have encourage me!!!

This morning I walked into my bosses office and punched him in the face. He was so appreciative that I got a promotion and a raise!!!! Yeah me!!!!!

 

[FayeW]

They are free to leave without penalty and not have to endure "jerks" and "unpaid overtime". Staying in that situation is always a choice.

Yes, and in this excellent, booming economy that you are enjoying I am sure quitting their jobs is an ideal choice for many. They won't have any trouble at all finding a new job.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I've worked in an at-will state my entire working life (26 years working), and never once been fired for "no reason." I have only been let go once, and I admitted right then and there that I deserved to be let go. My attitude stunk, and I knew it. I was 19 at the time, and it taught me a valuable lesson about doing your job and collecting your check, and not fussing about what you think you should or shouldn't be doing (as long as it is legal). If you are unhappy at work, you find another job; you don't go around with a bad attitude. Simple as that, lesson learned.

To me, "at will" employment works out to be similar to "no fault" divorce. Just because it is a no fault divorce state doesn't mean that people get divorced for absolutely no reason, it just means that they are not confined to a narrowly defined list of acceptable reasons. Same holds true for termination in at will employment. There usually IS a reason, it's just that they don't have to pick from a list of acceptable reasons and document them to protect themselves.

I've been fired just for the heck of it. I one boss who found a way to fire me because I wouldn't totally skip my vacation to come in and work. Vacation time that I earned and would not get back or even paid for if I didn't take it. Vacation time that had previously been approved. Vacation time of which most I already reluctantly gave up and went in to work instead. I still partially gave in and went in to work a half day, but was fired because I wouldn't work the full day. My very last vacation day possible for the year. Sorry, but when I'm offered a benefit of vacation time and it's approved, I shouldn't have to completely give it up without any compensation. I later found out that my boss immediately hired in a friend for my position.
I had never been written up for anything in the 3 years I'd worked there. I'd even got commendations. But the new boss had an agenda.

I was also fired from another job just because the boss didn't like me. I went to the restroom and she came by my desk at that time and later said that I had left early without saying anything. I received a call when I got homes saying that I was fired and to not go back in. How she could have thought I'd leave my coat laying on the desk when it's only 30 degrees outside is beyond my comprehension.


In at-will states, a boss can find any reason at all to fire a person and make it sound like a good reason. That's why so many deaf or disable people end up living off disability. They get hired in because they need someone immediately but can't find someone else. Then they end up getting "let go" or "fired" within the 90 day trial period for whatever reason can be found. Only to later find out that another "normal" person was hired in for the same job.

They are free to leave without penalty and not have to endure "jerks" and "unpaid overtime". Staying in that situation is always a choice.

Nope. Not if there are no other jobs available for the person to not have to lose pay. Take the current job market. It's extremely difficult for a very good worker with no black marks to get a job.
But, it can be considered a black mark against a person for leaving a job without notice. And some previous employers will tell prospective employers negative things about the person. I've personally seen and head this exact thing done.