I have a ? for teachers... Math/ when changing class routine/methods

[mjkacmom]

and BINGO! I was just coming to post and saw your post( which I agree, the flexibility is good, but wouldn't you want feedback if your kid was NOT doing well under this type of planning?)... DS came in the door and said they now why the math class was changed...get this,,, because of eligibility. Apparently since grades do not go in as frequent, if a kid is failing or whatever the limitation is...it does not show on the weekly report, this way kids in this class get up to 3 weeks before an updated grade shows in case it is too low. Guess which class a star player is in, but is not doing well in ( according to DS and his friend who came home with him and is in the same class) Nice. Yep, this teacher is also a coach...DUH! Shame on me for not figuring it all out sooner. yeah, blah blah blah on teachiing responsibility, setting high expectations, no wonder the techeris not informing parents!...geez, maybe I should ask DH tennis coach if he can talk to DS/teammates teachers about altering class routines so they can be risk free too. well, I guess DS did learn a valuable lesson after all.

While I agree that I can see some kids having a harder time getting all of the work upfront, I can't imagine a HS teacher having contact with the parents and letting them know the change. As long as they tell the kids, I'd be fine with it. When changes are made in dd13's classes, she tells me if I need to know. Heck, the JH and HS's don't send any notices home to the parents! I honestly don't know any of dd's teachers names!

Since ds is only 11, I ask him about what he needs to do (especially being undiagnosed ADHD). I found out his grades were dropping, and scheduled a conference with his teacher - she didn't contact me. Turns out he can't focus, and didn't do some parts of projects. Now that I know, I'm on top of him again (never needed to with dd13 at this age).

 

[Pastamom]

As a math teacher (college now, previously middle and high school) I think math is one class that students really need to be encourage to keep up with. Many assignments build on previous ones and therefore it is difficult to teach students the next topic if they haven't learned the previous one, By the end of the chapter this can snowball on a student and they can never recover - or at least it will be very difficult. This gets worse every year that "miss" something.

So many students I see at the college level intimidated by math and feel they can't do it. Sometimes they need a little hold handing to get their first success, once that happens they are ready to learn and have a newfound confidence.

Math IMO is a different type of subject - a packet is not very effective to teach Algebra, Geometry, Trig, etc. Students need regular reinforcement to know how they are doing and what they need to fix. Handing in homework once every 3 weeks in not very effective for most students.

That being said - I don't think a high school teacher has to notify parents about a change, but they should notify the students and explain why it's being done -If I change something in my class I give my students a reason and allow them to give some input - It helps to see things from a student's perspective sometimes.

If you're really upset about the change and since you've talked to the teacher and gotten nowhere, I would talk to the prinicpal or guidance counselor and voice you opinion.

 

[HeatherH]

Whatever the reason for the teacher making the change (and you may be right, it may have something to do with an athlete...or it may not), at the high school level there is just NO WAY the teacher is going to communicate that to anyone but the STUDENTS who have to produce the work. If a kid is failing a class or has other issues, then yes, a parent should be notified, but NOT just because they changed the homework due dates.

My daughter is in high school. We sign the syllabus thing at the beginning of the year too for most classes. I don't think it's a binding contract on how the teacher is going to assign work all year.

I don't get involved in my daughter's schoolwork at all, it's her responsibility and she gets it done. Even if the rules change, I expect her to work that out and budget her time accordingly. It's just not the teacher's job to communicate something like this to PARENTS when the kids are in high school. They are old enough to understand and deal with it.

 

[FINFAN]

As a math teacher (college now, previously middle and high school) I think math is one class that students really need to be encourage to keep up with. Many assignments build on previous ones and therefore it is difficult to teach students the next topic if they haven't learned the previous one, By the end of the chapter this can snowball on a student and they can never recover - or at least it will be very difficult. This gets worse every year that "miss" something.

So many students I see at the college level intimidated by math and feel they can't do it. Sometimes they need a little hold handing to get their first success, once that happens they are ready to learn and have a newfound confidence.

Math IMO is a different type of subject - a packet is not very effective to teach Algebra, Geometry, Trig, etc. Students need regular reinforcement to know how they are doing and what they need to fix. Handing in homework once every 3 weeks in not very effective for most students.

That being said - I don't think a high school teacher has to notify parents about a change, but they should notify the students and explain why it's being done -If I change something in my class I give my students a reason and allow them to give some input - It helps to see things from a student's perspective sometimes.

If you're really upset about the change and since you've talked to the teacher and gotten nowhere, I would talk to the prinicpal or guidance counselor and voice you opinion.

it is more a case of not being notified on the sudden drop in progress,( ok, over a 3 week period, directly related to the change that was made) and then basically taking on the attitiude that the change has nothing to with how the students are struggling. So basically, teachers do not feel the need to communicate to parents if they see their students grades are dropping. While making a change to something I was REQUIRED to sign off on at the beginning of the year is not mandatory, I believe it is a teachers responsibility to notify droppng grades especially if they are not going to put them up on the grading system in a timely fashion either. And I agree, math is an awful risky subject to let assignments "go" on....and as you said, not very effective for MOST students...so the few who could not manage to get thir stuff done for the daily deadline ( and thats ok, there SHOULD be flexibility as I said, no 2 kids learn alike) get to alter the routine for those who were getting it done that way, so at the end of the day, it appears that fair is fair...and those that have been struggling on the new routine should get to choose which way works best for them, then it's a win-win , right? Bottom line, the teacher should notify if a student is dropping. I imagine of the athlete was in jeapordy , HIS parents were informed...matter of fact, look, a whole routine was changed!( alegedly)

 

[disfan07]

seriously, if this is high school thsi is what they should be doing. When they get to college, they will not be getting daily reminders, etc about hw.

In my cognitive psych. class, we got a syllabus at the beginning of teh semester.
The schedule is titled...Your Life In Cognitive Psychology
It lists class dates with what we will be covering in those classes, teh dates of tests plus teh due dates of chapter assignments and our paper.
She has every right to change it and its states that on teh syllabus but she hasnt yet. She does not remind us that our hw is due on wed. or that our paper is due for peer review in 2 weeks. It's OUR responsibility to make suer we know when things are due.

It works this way in my poli sci class, chem class, health class, etc.

They're going to have to deal with this type of thing in college....they should get used to it now

In high school, my paretns were never notified of a drop in progress. If we got assignents, tests back ets adn our grades were dropping or if we didnt udnerstadn something it was OUR responsibility to talk to the teacher, not our parents. Thsi is teh problem these days. By high school, parents should not be called by teachers to report progress (UNLESS it si special circumstances). The kids should be responsible enough to deal with it themselves. If they can't, they will never succeed in college

 

[daughtersrus]

I understand your frustrations but I think that it's a shared responsibility. If I remember correctly, your school district implemented a web-based system where parents can check homework assignments several years ago. If parents choose not to use this service, we really can't blame the teachers. Also, the teacher did communicate it to the students and they in turn should have shared the information with their parents.

I do believe that teachers should notify parents if their child is having difficulty in school regardless if it's related to homework, tests or projects, even at the HS level.

High School Math is one of the subjects that I just don't see doing packets every couple of weeks working. The concepts seem to build on to each other. If you don't understand the first one, it's likely that you're going to be lost come the second or third one. I also can't imagine the teacher checking all of those papers at once. DD spent 2 hours on Saturday checking one project for one class of geometry students that she has.

As for the sports issue. If the student's grade is kept for those weeks, when he/she finally turns in the homework and it brings their grade down, won't it be down for the next few weeks until the next assignment is turned in?

I know that when my children were in HS, both the parents and the student had to sign the syllabus as well as the classroom rules. Maybe this is a Chicago suburb regional thing.

 

[teacher100]

I think High School the kids should have the responsibility. I would be thankful for this system as well. I know my son recently stayed up until after midnight completing Math because he left school for a band competition and didn't get home until 11:00. If these kids are in College Prep classes it is a good preparation.

If the kids are 8th grade and under I think the parents should be notified. However, if the notes don't get home which tends to be a problem my middle schooler has than that falls on the child and the child should be held responsible not the teacher.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I wish more teachers gave packets...but not in math. - It really does build one concept on another, and the homework needs to be corrected and returned to the student well before the test in order for him or her to benefit from the feedback. So in the OP's case, I don't really see it as something that will work well, and unfortunately suspect the athletics theory as the reason for the change.

When I originally read, I was assuming younger kids, so the rest of my thoughts are general discussion...

If I were making this change at this point in the year (say for reading or spelling) it would be so the students could take advantage of the nice weather days to do less homework and get outside and play, and then do more on rainy days or weekends. I also do agree that it's good practice in time management - but student skill in that area varies greatly, so I would still inform the parents: I think some in the younger grades would still have to impose their own structure for them at home. (Theoretically, it would be fine to just tell the high school students themselves, but even then, I might, especially if I had kids who would still need a little coaching to put their own schedule in place.)

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

What format are the packets in?

I know that the students at my kids' school get their math homework assigned a week in advance, but the packet indicates which days they are covering each part of the material. This way, if the kids are away or know they have a lot of things on, they can work ahead. They are expected to have completed the material assigned for each date, though, before the next lesson. Personally, I think it's a GREAT system...I wish they had it when I was a student, and if I ever get back into teaching, I think I'll steal it!

When I was teaching, I rarely collected homework; instead, it was checked for completion, and then corrected by the student in class before we began the next lesson. Does this teacher maybe do something similar (i.e., goes over the material as they cover it, but just collects and marks the homework once every few weeks for completion)?

 

[FINFAN]

What format are the packets in?

I know that the students at my kids' school get their math homework assigned a week in advance, but the packet indicates which days they are covering each part of the material. This way, if the kids are away or know they have a lot of things on, they can work ahead. They are expected to have completed the material assigned for each date, though, before the next lesson. Personally, I think it's a GREAT system...I wish they had it when I was a student, and if I ever get back into teaching, I think I'll steal it!

When I was teaching, I rarely collected homework; instead, it was checked for completion, and then corrected by the student in class before we began the next lesson. Does this teacher maybe do something similar (i.e., goes over the material as they cover it, but just collects and marks the homework once every few weeks for completion)?

I asked DS last night if they have the option to turn in stuff in early or how do they go about stuff they don't understand..is it in the beginning of class, what DO they do in class? He said they go from the book fine...but that if they have issues with any of the assignments form the packet they are to go to the math resource center, or seek out side help/ tutor or try and set up an appt with the "sometime" assistant in the class, or maybe him if he's available. Also to use any on line assistance that will help...in other words, anywhere but from the teacher. Sheesh....so DS said if he has something he does not get he has been moving on to the next page in the packet, etc., which then left him unfinished on 2 assignments which then were marked as failed. While he was at resource it was so jammed during his lunch that he was able to get anout 10 minutes of help. So, we will get DS thru the remainder of the year as his source of seeking outside help I guess...at least now we know what the reasoning is behind so many kids suddenly taking a dive, and yes I still think it is the teachers responsibility to notify families of kids who start dropping due to a change that was implemented solely by the teacher and there is a direct correlation to the change/lower grades. Just the right thing to do in the field of education. Thanks for all your replies I appreciate them.

 

[agnes!]

So far as getting outside help...
when my DD was having some trouble with one of her subjects, we got her a tutor and then decided to keep the tutor on an ongoing (at least once-weekly) basis... And now I think DD is the only one in that class who understands the subject, other kids have been coming to her to ask *her* things.

agnes!

 

[daughtersrus]

I asked DS last night if they have the option to turn in stuff in early or how do they go about stuff they don't understand..is it in the beginning of class, what DO they do in class? He said they go from the book fine...but that if they have issues with any of the assignments form the packet they are to go to the math resource center, or seek out side help/ tutor or try and set up an appt with the "sometime" assistant in the class, or maybe him if he's available. Also to use any on line assistance that will help...in other words, anywhere but from the teacher. Sheesh....so DS said if he has something he does not get he has been moving on to the next page in the packet, etc., which then left him unfinished on 2 assignments which then were marked as failed. While he was at resource it was so jammed during his lunch that he was able to get anout 10 minutes of help. So, we will get DS thru the remainder of the year as his source of seeking outside help I guess...at least now we know what the reasoning is behind so many kids suddenly taking a dive, and yes I still think it is the teachers responsibility to notify families of kids who start dropping due to a change that was implemented solely by the teacher and there is a direct correlation to the change/lower grades. Just the right thing to do in the field of education. Thanks for all your replies I appreciate them.

Have you thought about contacting the department chair to share your concerns?

I've talked to a few teachers and all agree that giving high school math packets of homework like this is not a good idea because if the student isn't understanding the first concept, it's very unlikely that they will understand the following ones and be able to get the correct answer.

 

[mjkacmom]

I asked DS last night if they have the option to turn in stuff in early or how do they go about stuff they don't understand..is it in the beginning of class, what DO they do in class? He said they go from the book fine...but that if they have issues with any of the assignments form the packet they are to go to the math resource center, or seek out side help/ tutor or try and set up an appt with the "sometime" assistant in the class, or maybe him if he's available. Also to use any on line assistance that will help...in other words, anywhere but from the teacher. Sheesh....so DS said if he has something he does not get he has been moving on to the next page in the packet, etc., which then left him unfinished on 2 assignments which then were marked as failed. While he was at resource it was so jammed during his lunch that he was able to get anout 10 minutes of help. So, we will get DS thru the remainder of the year as his source of seeking outside help I guess...at least now we know what the reasoning is behind so many kids suddenly taking a dive, and yes I still think it is the teachers responsibility to notify families of kids who start dropping due to a change that was implemented solely by the teacher and there is a direct correlation to the change/lower grades. Just the right thing to do in the field of education. Thanks for all your replies I appreciate them.

I agree that math packets aren't a great way to go, and I agree that the teacher should have some time available to go over concepts for the kids who aren't getting it (dd13 is in all vector classes in 8th grade, and has stayed after school, or gone in early, for clarification). However, the idea of a HS teacher contacting parents because a student's grade has gone down, doesn't sound normal to me. I remember struggling with math, and there is no way there was any communication between the teacher and my parents. It was up to me to let them know there was a problem. It's not like elementary school, where a teacher has 20 students.

If a student is in danger of failing, the guidance office will usually mail a letter. In JH, they do send out notifications each marking period if a child is failing, or in dd's case, if she is in danger of getting a B (you need to keep an A average to stay in the classes).

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My middle school dd sometimes get math packets and now that she does thing on "her schedule" she is able to ask the right questions in class or at off times since she is not waiting till the last minute.

Plus, she has a friend who she networks with and they work on stuff together.

Learning how to become proactive is essential for success.

 

[MrsPete]

...but that if they have issues with any of the assignments form the packet they are to go to the math resource center, or seek out side help/ tutor or try and set up an appt with the "sometime" assistant in the class, or maybe him if he's available. Also to use any on line assistance that will help...in other words, anywhere but from the teacher.

Just a note on this . . . it could very well be just fine.

To illustrate, let me tell you something about my classes: My seniors are required to write a very large research paper, which gives some students a large amount of trouble. When this paper was mandated a couple years ago each teacher was working with students as best she could, but as time went on, we put together a system that provides help for students without being so burdensome on teachers. We have SIX after-school help sessions, which are announced on the very first day of class. ONE of the senior teachers will be at each after-school help session, and ANY student from ANY senior class can attend. Huge benefit for us: Our students have the option to attend six sessions, we each only have to put in two afternoons doing this unpaid tutoring. Also, I put LOADS of information on my website to help students figure out things that they've missed in class. Finally, the students who NEED this help tend to be the ones who haven't done their work in class or who have been absent -- the students who've been on top of things all along don't tend to fall behind.

So I'm wondering if your student's teacher IS the one working at this math help place (at least part of the time), and I'm wondering if the online materials to which your student is directed were placed there by the teacher.

Also, I have to side with those who say that by high school it's ultimately the student's responsibility to keep up with his grades. Not only is it age-appropriate, it's realistic. A high school teacher is responsible for about 150 students per year; expecting a call for every drop in grades isn't realistic.

In closing, I'm hearing loads of blame for the teacher, stones cast at other students (athletes specifically), and NONE for your student. Don't let him off the hook for bad grades. Don't look for someone else to blame.