How would you reform the US Education system.

[kimmar067]

No, you are just being a troublemaker Plus, you needed to do that by the end of the first page.

..oh, DRAT!

 

[NotUrsula]

I think the issue is your school then, not the entire system, because every other school I have either attended or our kids have attended was perfectly capable of getting these classes in AND having PE.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with MY school; I'm not talking about my own children, I'm talking about the country at large and state graduation requirements. (FTR, my kids attend private religious schools. BTW, banning private schools? Not going to work. That's been tried, and those state laws were declared unconstitutional on the grounds that it violates Freedom of Religion.) I *do* care about public schools, and I don't have any issue with paying taxes to support them -- I'm happy to do so when they are decently managed.

My PERSONAL opinion is that all kids need to be in some kind of school year-round and for 40 hours per week from the age of 5 to about 14; beyond that I believe that staying is a privilege that you have to earn by your behavior and effort. I personally would prefer that all competitive sport programs are eliminated before high school; just give them recess and free play, which does a lot more for problem-solving skills and the development of imagination. However, I know that's an out-there opinion for most folks, and I'm a pragmatic person.

I don't have to sweat NCLB and the standardized test nonsense because my kids take the tests at the BEGINNING of the school year, and there is no teaching to the test. The idea at their school (as it was at the public school I attended 40 years ago) is that standardized tests should assess what students do NOT know, rather than what they do. They were originally designed to reveal weaknesses that teachers needed to address, and that is how they are used at my school. It isn't that testing is inherently bad; what is bad is how those tests are being used today in most public school districts. Kids should never be drilled for testing; it only creates bad data.

 

[PollyannaMom]

...My PERSONAL opinion is that all kids need to be in some kind of school year-round and for 40 hours per week from the age of 5 to about 14; beyond that I believe that staying is a privilege that you have to earn by your behavior and effort....

This part I don't agree with. 5 is way too young in my opinion to be in school all day, and kids grow up so much during the summer.

...I personally would prefer that all competitive sport programs are eliminated before high school; just give them recess and free play, which does a lot more for problem-solving skills and the development of imagination. However, I know that's an out-there opinion for most folks, and I'm a pragmatic person...

But this part I kind of like. I think there is way too much pressure (not to mention expense) in young kids' sports.

...I don't have to sweat NCLB and the standardized test nonsense because my kids take the tests at the BEGINNING of the school year, and there is no teaching to the test. The idea at their school (as it was at the public school I attended 40 years ago) is that standardized tests should assess what students do NOT know, rather than what they do. They were originally designed to reveal weaknesses that teachers needed to address, and that is how they are used at my school. It isn't that testing is inherently bad; what is bad is how those tests are being used today in most public school districts. Kids should never be drilled for testing; it only creates bad data.

And this part I am definitely with! - I would get rid of the current teach-to-the-test atmosphere, too.

...and also funding tied to attendance while I'm at. (Forgive me if someone has already mentioned that. - I missed the middle of the thread.)

...and I want smaller classes!!!! (which I'm sure somone has mentioned, but which I think is important enough to be on every page.)

 

[Robindianne]

Those that know, work. Those that understand, teach. It is so much easier to just know a bunch of random facts. It's just low level thinking but having to apply it and getting others to understand it is the difficult part.

I'd get rid of every business person in education. They have no idea how it works. Managing an education system is much more difficult than managing some business. In business you can fire underperformers, not so in education. In education you lose money for underperformance. Hire people to make them reach those standards, oh wait you can't, you just lost your funding but still have to make those people perform better the next year or you lose even more.
Fact of the matter is, business people as a whole are extremely underqualified when it comes to anything education and shouldn't step near an education position.


chicagodisneyfan
Ask any primary elementary ed teacher and you would be surprised to find out how many kids the teacher actually has to teach tying shoes and using utensils to.
I am sure there are many things you did not get the first time you attempted it and you were not dropped behind to fend for yourself because you couldn't get something. I surely hope you can understand this with one attempt: Qualitatively describe the shift in frequency in sound or electromagnetic waves due to the relative motion of a source or a receiver.
What students are learning today is much more advanced then what was previously required. Students today are smarter and more socially conscious than any other time in the history of the USA.


Standards are a great thing, they give teachers something to teach to and create a goal that the students strive to reach. We need national standards, what is happening in Texas is disgusting. It is akin to what is happening in some UK schools with the Holocaust. I think the main problem with the standards is that it lacks life skills especially for those with intellectual disabilities. While teaching about the frequency shift is important for a high school student in gen ed, a high school student with intellectual disabilities should be learning more about the transition to adult hood and doing things independently. Teaching students with intellectual disabilities life skills so they can live and work as independently as possible is more important than identifying the primary and secondary colors of light, which is a goal for students with severe intellectual disabilities.


TLDR:
Keep business out of education
Standards are good but shouldn't be a one size fits all.

I could never have said it that well. Thank you.

 

[Art 1]

I would start by looking at the Japanese school system and how it functions.

 

[monsterkitty]

That is because the education isn't there. My dd has to fight to take a higher level class even though she is more than capable. What a joke.

They have watered the schools down so they can get the money however the result is that the kids are bored want more and they are not allowed to go for it.

Why in the hell does my nerdy kid need to take PE? She would be better off taking a computer class. Don't give me your mumbo jumbo how important PE is...that is baloney.

The problem is that the curriculums stink on ice.

She could probably take a community college class NOW in english and do well.

In fact there are many students in her middle school ready for community college level classes and they can't advance because of "the rules".

Her friend Buddy last yr (7th grade) almost got a perfect score on the ACT. His math skills are at a University level and he is held back. Plus he is writing computer programs already.

My oldest would have KILLED for foreign language. She would have taken it up to her eyeballs if she could. However again PE and MO required classes are SOOOO important. NOT!

I will stop ranting now.

I only read as far as this post and stopped. These children would absolutely thrive in our school system. We are completely standards based and children move at their own pace.

We no longer have grade levels. Instead, each child is placed at his or her level for each subject. If a child is at an 8th grade reading level, but 5th grade math level, the child will be placed in the 8th graede reading and 5th grade math, regardless of age. Students are still placed in levels according to the age group, 5-11 in the elementary, 11-14 middle school, and 14 - graduation is high school, but each one of the schools offers the classes in all levels.

As for our levels, levels 1 - 14 are required for graduation. 15-17 are courses offered by colleges in the high school. Each subject level has standards that the students must pass with an 80% or higher in order to move to the next standard. We call the standards Learning Targets. A child in a Level 7 literacy class must pass all 15 Learning Targets at 80% in order to move to a Level 8 lit class. Some children can do this in a few months, others it will take all year or perhaps even into the next year.

This is just an abbreviated example of our system. Is it perfect? No. We are still learning and adjusting.

Does it work? This is only the second year our school district has used the system, except one school in which my sister is the principal. Her elementary piloted the program for a year and a half before the rest of us implemented it. During the three-and-a-half years her building has been standards based, student growth has been amazing. Before they leveled each child, only 15% of the students were reading at grade level and only 10% were at level in math. Now because kids cannot move levels until the are proficient, the gaps in skills and concepts are disappearing. Over 60% of the kids are now at or above grade level in reading and math.

Do kids like it? Yes and no. Discipline issues have decreased because kids feel comfortable working at a level that meets their needs - their frustration is down because now they can do the work! The kids who don't like it are the kids who don't like having an assignment handed back and asked to work a little more (re-do it) because it did not meet the requirements. Many of these kids are our gifted kids who have not been challenged in the past have skated by. They don't really like to be told that they actually have to work now.

Only time will tell how this plays out. As a teacher I hope it works because it does make kids, teachers, and parents equally responsible for the education a child receives.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I would start by looking at the Japanese school system and how it functions.

That wouldn't really work. The Japanese school system is based on their cultural beliefs, values, and priorities, which are different from our own. It would be a resounding failure.

Monsterkitty-
Your school sounds fascinating, almost like a hybrid of waldorf, montessori, and "traditional" education approaches.

 

[kathie859]

It's time to stop scheduling school based on an agrarian society. Kids aren't helping with the field work any more. Have school year round with the occasional holiday breaks, pay teachers a living wage and bring back teaching the classics, a great foundation for independent thought, while continuing to make improvements in math and science.

 

[Art 1]

That wouldn't really work. The Japanese school system is based on their cultural beliefs, values, and priorities, which are different from our own. It would be a resounding failure.

Monsterkitty-
Your school sounds fascinating, almost like a hybrid of waldorf, montessori, and "traditional" education approaches.

You start in Kindergarden. How do you know that it would fail?

 

[monsterkitty]

You start in Kindergarden. How do you know that it would fail?

Because not everyone in America values education. In Japan, everyone values education and it is instilled at an early age that you do the best you can in school. Teachers are respected. When they ask a student to do something, such as homework, the teacher is not second-guessed or bashed. Parents don't call out a teacher for setting high expectations. They don't sit there and tell their child, "It's okay, I was bad at math too, so you don't have to work that hard." Children in Japan are taught that an education is a priviledge, not a right.

Walk into most public schools today at any grade level and ask a child why they are in school. While many will say, "for an education," many more will say, "because I have to be here."

 

[LisaR]

I only read as far as this post and stopped. These children would absolutely thrive in our school system. We are completely standards based and children move at their own pace.

We no longer have grade levels. Instead, each child is placed at his or her level for each subject. If a child is at an 8th grade reading level, but 5th grade math level, the child will be placed in the 8th graede reading and 5th grade math, regardless of age. Students are still placed in levels according to the age group, 5-11 in the elementary, 11-14 middle school, and 14 - graduation is high school, but each one of the schools offers the classes in all levels.

As for our levels, levels 1 - 14 are required for graduation. 15-17 are courses offered by colleges in the high school. Each subject level has standards that the students must pass with an 80% or higher in order to move to the next standard. We call the standards Learning Targets. A child in a Level 7 literacy class must pass all 15 Learning Targets at 80% in order to move to a Level 8 lit class. Some children can do this in a few months, others it will take all year or perhaps even into the next year.

This is just an abbreviated example of our system. Is it perfect? No. We are still learning and adjusting.

Does it work? This is only the second year our school district has used the system, except one school in which my sister is the principal. Her elementary piloted the program for a year and a half before the rest of us implemented it. During the three-and-a-half years her building has been standards based, student growth has been amazing. Before they leveled each child, only 15% of the students were reading at grade level and only 10% were at level in math. Now because kids cannot move levels until the are proficient, the gaps in skills and concepts are disappearing. Over 60% of the kids are now at or above grade level in reading and math.

Do kids like it? Yes and no. Discipline issues have decreased because kids feel comfortable working at a level that meets their needs - their frustration is down because now they can do the work! The kids who don't like it are the kids who don't like having an assignment handed back and asked to work a little more (re-do it) because it did not meet the requirements. Many of these kids are our gifted kids who have not been challenged in the past have skated by. They don't really like to be told that they actually have to work now.

Only time will tell how this plays out. As a teacher I hope it works because it does make kids, teachers, and parents equally responsible for the education a child receives.

WOW! I could really get behind this system. Certainly not perfect but it sounds practical and logical. Is this in the United States?

 

[MrsPete]

I really don't think so. I've seen many great students come from 2 income households. They are exposed to many extra things before starting school.

I find the underlying issue to be reading. Many children do not read outside of school. The children that excel read many more books per year than lower performing students. The more you read, the smarter you are in all subject areas.

2 of my DSs are LD but I read to them and I make them read. They also listen to books on their ipod and mp3 players. Parents are going to have to wake up and force their kids to read.

Yeah, my own kids have always had two working parents. My high school daughter has a 4.4 GPA, takes all honors courses, and is active in several clubs and organizations. She's also a respectful, good all-around kid.

I could point out kids like her who had working parents, kids like her who had stay-at-home parents . . . or I could point out just the opposite: Worthless kids whose working parents never had time for them, and kids whose stay-at-home parents catered to them over-much so that now they can't do anything on their own. You can't predict kids' achievement based upon this factor.

I do agree about reading. Kids today just don't read like those in past generations, and it's much to their detriment. I kind of don't get it because my own kids would rather read than eat when they're hungry . . . and that's not an accident. I taught them to like reading from a young age, and I purposefully limited access to TV and other distractions.

No, what I see is a mom that only wants things that are easy for her child, not a mom that wants her child challenged and yes, PE is a challenge for her from what it sounds.

Yep, also a mom who fails to understand that schools have to have standards, and it's going to be a rare kid who doesn't dislike -- even HATE -- some portion of those requirements. As much as she hates PE, someone else hates math class (or maybe the attendance policy, or maybe disecting frogs in Biology class) and would rally against it just as strongly. But if you're going to give out a diploma that means something, every student has to adhere to those standards.

I see you as someone who cannot understand other people's issues and you have a lack of vision for how to reform schools for the better. You have huge tunnel vision and instead of opening yourself up to change you prefer to pummel people's ideas.

Aren't you the one with tunnel vision concerning one specific class that you dislike? You're unable to see the larger picture and insist upon just letting kids study what they like and find easy.

I would start by looking at the Japanese school system and how it functions.

I disagree. While we certainly have our problems here, they have different problems there: Excessive pressure on kids to succeed, lack of time to just be kids, some kids denied access to high school level courses. No, I wouldn't want to trade what we have now for their entirely different set of problems.

A happy medium somewhere between the two countries' school systems would be more healthy: All families caring about their children's educations, but not spending every waking moment being pressured to do something academic, and not pushing kids into heart attacks and mental breakdowns at young ages.

 

[monsterkitty]

WOW! I could really get behind this system. Certainly not perfect but it sounds practical and logical. Is this in the United States?

Yes, it is here in the United States.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Because not everyone in America values education. In Japan, everyone values education and it is instilled at an early age that you do the best you can in school. Teachers are respected. When they ask a student to do something, such as homework, the teacher is not second-guessed or bashed. Parents don't call out a teacher for setting high expectations. They don't sit there and tell their child, "It's okay, I was bad at math too, so you don't have to work that hard." Children in Japan are taught that an education is a priviledge, not a right.

Walk into most public schools today at any grade level and ask a child why they are in school. While many will say, "for an education," many more will say, "because I have to be here."

Exactly. Heck, we have many parents in the U.S. who value education and yet constantly undercut and undermine their schools and teachers. They don't usually see it as undermining the education. Most of them call it "advocating for their child." I'm not so sure we need as many "advocates" as we have.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Make school optional. Be willing to kick out students that not only are having behavioral issues, but also students who just aren't trying.

End inclusion and separate children by ability. I would go as far as eliminating the grade system, as another poster indicated.

Create a national learning standard for each subject and each grade level.

Stop funding based on test scores. Assessments should be used to assess students, not the teacher, school, or district.

Lower class sizes to promote more focused time with each student.

Eliminate red tape, which means cutting back on federal and state oversight as well as the size and power of school district administration.

Fire anyone who is not performing to excepted standards. In other words, end tenure.

Lengthen the school year.

 

[Art 1]

Because not everyone in America values education. In Japan, everyone values education and it is instilled at an early age that you do the best you can in school. Teachers are respected. When they ask a student to do something, such as homework, the teacher is not second-guessed or bashed. Parents don't call out a teacher for setting high expectations. They don't sit there and tell their child, "It's okay, I was bad at math too, so you don't have to work that hard." Children in Japan are taught that an education is a priviledge, not a right.

Walk into most public schools today at any grade level and ask a child why they are in school. While many will say, "for an education," many more will say, "because I have to be here."

You are kind of making my point.

 

[monsterkitty]

You are kind of making my point.

You are not going to change the beliefs of the parents by starting a system in kindergarten. When a parent does not see the value of an education, then he or she will pass that belief to the child. If we run schools like they do in Japan all you are going to have is these parents complaining that we are mean and controling. Ever see the words teacher-God on these boards? That is exactly what parents will see it as - not a better educational system.

 

[golfgal]

Make school optional. Be willing to kick out students that not only are having behavioral issues, but also students who just aren't trying.

End inclusion and separate children by ability. I would go as far as eliminating the grade system, as another poster indicated.

Create a national learning standard for each subject and each grade level.

Stop funding based on test scores. Assessments should be used to assess students, not the teacher, school, or district.

Lower class sizes to promote more focused time with each student.

Eliminate red tape, which means cutting back on federal and state oversight as well as the size and power of school district administration.

Fire anyone who is not performing to excepted standards. In other words, end tenure.

Lengthen the school year.

Just how much are you willing to pay in taxes to support all the uneducated people?? If school was optional you would find probably 1/2 the population in many areas of the country that would not attend school. What exactly would we do with them?

 

[MrsPete]

Exactly. Heck, we have many parents in the U.S. who value education and yet constantly undercut and undermine their schools and teachers. They don't usually see it as undermining the education. Most of them call it "advocating for their child." I'm not so sure we need as many "advocates" as we have.

Yep. You'd be surprised how many parents are in favor of tough standards, bringing back excellence, expecting students to toe the line . . . oh, but we'll be pulling Suzie out of class next week for a Disney trip, and Johnny set out to do a really great project, but he didn't finish it on time -- surely you'll grant an extension, won't you? You can't have it both ways: Either we have tough standards, or we don't.

Make school optional. Be willing to kick out students that not only are having behavioral issues, but also students who just aren't trying.

End inclusion and separate children by ability. I would go as far as eliminating the grade system, as another poster indicated.

I'm with you on the behavioral issues thing, but not on the inclusion. Inclusion allows students with minor learning problems to perform in a mainstream classroom. We cannot afford to "throw away" those kids. We need to educate them; the other option is to support them for the rest of their lives.

Perhaps you're thinking that inclusion kids are the ones who need help learning to button their shirts, etc? That's not realistic. The inclusion kids are the ones who need extra time on their tests, who can't quite keep up with taking notes in class, who need more graphic organizers. Also, the vast majority of our inclusion kids are successful in school.

The kids who aren't successful are the ones who WON'T DO their work.

 

[Art 1]

You are not going to change the beliefs of the parents by starting a system in kindergarten. When a parent does not see the value of an education, then he or she will pass that belief to the child. If we run schools like they do in Japan all you are going to have is these parents complaining that we are mean and controling. Ever see the words teacher-God on these boards? That is exactly what parents will see it as - not a better educational system.

Please continue.