How the internet killed Epcot

[ironz]

Does anyone remember way back (80s?) when there was a computer that would draw your picture in Communicore? That memory still sticks with me.
This was in the early days of Epcot. I can also still remember that we went to a booth to "videophone" someone to make our dining reservations for later that day.

 

[bladiator]

Has the internet killed any hopes of Epcot (the theme park) returning to its former position as a place of legitimate and relevant "edutainment"?

It has been hit on a couple times so far, but I think that edutainment has never been more appreciated now that all we do is sit around and do nothing on the internet all day. I mean, can you find out about pretty much everything instantly in the world? Sure. But then you go and debate it on a forum like reddit with a bunch of arrogant jerks -- wheeeee. The internet has all the information, but the most you can do with it is a film or an interactive website or a game app on a flat screen of a computer or a phone. Thanks but no thanks. Actually, just no thanks.

Even things that used to be in Innoventions (like Storm Struck for instance) is still relevant today. Tornadoes and storms still exist and aren't exactly just passe information. I think that there are plenty of interactive learning attractions that can still be created that don't have to be the newest and the most technological device in the world. Maybe "Future World" is the problem -- not the land, but the name ... maybe it needs to be a souped up version of "Learning Land" or something. Someone earlier mentioned how Living with the Land has made it all this time and is still relevant. You just have to come up with attractions and exhibits that aren't going to eat it as soon version 2.0 of something comes out. In fact, I think a lot of the current attractions COULD still be very viable. The inner workings of the imagination is never going to get old (but the attraction did) and sea life is also something that if they put a little more money into it (like, more shows inside the seas and interactions) could stay ahead of the game.

Anyways, now I'm rambling. I think that Epcot could always just absolutely destroy one of these hands on museums because they're not limited to staying inside the bounds of a particular life science or historical model.

 

[GillianP1301]

Interesting thread, OP. I don't necessarily agree with you, but it does make for interesting conversation. I do agree with the thought that Future World is looking dated/stale, but I disagree with the idea that the Internet and the access to instant information replaces the need or desire for a futuristic type place like Epcot started out to be. As humans, we are still a relatively young species and to think that there isn't more greatness out there beyond the current instant information age, would be as shortsighted as thinking there would never be a need for a telephone that didn't require an operator on a switch, or a cord, or a rotary dial, for example. To steal from another attraction, there's a great big beautiful tomorrow.

I think the biggest issue with the original intent of Epcot is it is very costly and time consuming to constantly be changing the future view, it really just isn't a feasible business model. I'm not sure what the answer is and in the mean time I still do really enjoy Epcot.

 

[Ava L]

I think that there are plenty of interactive learning attractions that can still be created that don't have to be the newest and the most technological device in the world.

I completely agree! I think EPCOT is at its best when it's showing people the PRESENT! Things like Living With the Land and Mission: Space are showing people how scientists are currently tackling problems and doing research in fields that people may not know a lot about or have never thought about. Sure, there is access to the information, but does that mean that anyone will care to look it up? EPCOT succeeds in making its guests care about things that they may not have before in ways that are new and exciting. THIS is how they should tackle their new attractions. They don't have to be crazy technological advances.

 

[mamamelody2]

This thread is very interesting.

I am ashamed to say, though, that I never put together the name "future world" with the future. LOL. To me, it's just a name, like Tomorrowland in MK. That's certainly not showing us tomorrow. I know epcot's different, but I still never put it together. Maybe I'm just slow.

 

[Robo]

This thread is very interesting.

I am ashamed to say, though, that I never put together the name "future world" with the future. LOL. To me, it's just a name, like Tomorrowland in MK. That's certainly not showing us tomorrow. I know epcot's different, but I still never put it together. Maybe I'm just slow.

Tomorrowland WAS supposed to show the future (and did, sorta) for a couple of decades, give or take, after Disneyland opened.

 

[ucfknight]

I think the biggest issue with the original intent of Epcot is it is very costly and time consuming to constantly be changing the future view, it really just isn't a feasible business model. I'm not sure what the answer is and in the mean time I still do really enjoy Epcot.

But was it? How much of the actual rides in EPCOT Center were really about the near-future which would require them to constantly be updated?
Rides like Spaceship Earth and World of Motion were mainly about human history. Both took us from cavemen to modern day to show us the history of whatever they were portraying (communications and transportation). Only a bit at the end of each was about the future, but it was a small percentage of each ride.
Imagination was timeless, really.
The Seas had some futuristic stuff in the film at the beginning, but that could easily be updated.
The Land shows us new methods of farming, but since they still aren't really implemented on a wide scale it doesn't really need to be updated frequently. As we see it is still going today.
Universe of Energy did talk a lot about future of energy, but most of that was based on then present experimental technology. A few new clips for the films every few years and you're good. The expensive part of the ride, the audioanimatronics, were dinosaurs. Sure you could say they didn't keep pace with advances in paleontology and our understanding of how dinosaurs moved, but oh well.

Then we come to Horizons. The pavilion that was all about the future. Once again a portion of the ride (much less than most rides) dealt with the past. In this case it was our past guesses of what the future would be like. This helped setup the rest of the ride as being our best guess of what the future might bring. In this case, though, it wasn't the near future we were talking about. It was a future 100+ years away. A time we still haven't reached. Would anything in the future section of Horizons need to be changed that much if it were still open today? Are regular folk now living in a giant rotating space station which creates its own false gravity? Are we living in large underwater cities? Do we have farming colonies in the desert which survive by squeezing out what little moisture there is in the air to sustain life and farming?

 

[ucfknight]

Does anyone remember way back (80s?) when there was a computer that would draw your picture in Communicore? That memory still sticks with me.
This was in the early days of Epcot. I can also still remember that we went to a booth to "videophone" someone to make our dining reservations for later that day.

Ah... the dark ages of technology when you had to wait in a 3 minute line to talk to someone on a video screen and say, "I want to eat at Le Cellier in 3 hours". They'd punch a few keys on their computer and then say "OK. You're all set. Enjoy your meal."
Things are so much easier now that we live in a connected world. You only have to be staying at a Disney resort and login at an exact time 190 days from when you want to eat in order to make your reservation otherwise you're out of luck.
Progress!

 

[HopperFan]

Greetings all! This is my first "real" post on the DISBoards. I look forward to conversing with you all. With that, we are days away from the D23 Expo and possible new revealings on the future of Epcot. I admit that my first visit to WDW's second gate was in 2005, long after the supposed "heyday" that the park experienced in its early years. I have always a experienced a feeling of staleness when visiting, especially in Future World. It's as though somewhere in the 1990's (concurrent with the rise of the internet), the "21st Century" that began in 1982 came to a halt and has been there ever since.

With a universal resource like the internet, the world no longer depended on destinations like Epcot as a place to exhibit futuristic technologies and advancements in society. Disney and its attraction sponsors could never compete with a worldwide source of information, especially one that can adjust within seconds of a new scientific or technological breakthrough. Those discoveries are now held in our hands, pockets, wrists, homes, vehicles, and more every second of the day.

Let's also be honest with ourselves for a moment. I feel that society, as a whole, has lost great interest in futuristic ideas and visions. Take a look around at the problems we face as a planet in the present. Perhaps this is behind the consumer/guest interest shift away from real-world/futuristic themes and toward IP/fictional themes that transport guests away from the "real world" during their time in the parks. When is the last time you heard a (non-Disney fan) guest express interest in Epcot offering less IP in the park (if ever)? It's certainly a thought worth debating.

I love Epcot. I love its position as the brainchild of Walt's final dream... a living city of the future for all to enjoy and benefit from. Contrary to Mr. Chapek, I feel that the core message of Epcot is as (or even more) "Disney" than any new IP that may find itself in the park over the coming years. However, in this day and age of instant information, perhaps it's time to ask a tough question (for those of us who love this park dearly): Has the internet killed any hopes of Epcot (the theme park) returning to its former position as a place of legitimate and relevant "edutainment"?

I apologize for the lengthy nature of my thoughts, but hopefully this will generate some constructive discussion.

I have been saying this for many years.
(I've been shouted down for it, too.)

What possible "futuristic" technology needs to be showcased at a theme park?

Let's face it. We are not all going to have flying cars.

YES. And yes often drowned out.

I think the biggest issue with the original intent of Epcot is it is very costly and time consuming to constantly be changing the future view, it really just isn't a feasible business model. I'm not sure what the answer is and in the mean time I still do really enjoy Epcot.

YES. By time FutureWorld was complete it was already the past. Disney can not and should not spend the tremendous cash it would take (as it needs way more than Disney speed) to maintain an edutaintment FutureWorld.

This thread is very interesting.

I am ashamed to say, though, that I never put together the name "future world" with the future. LOL. To me, it's just a name, like Tomorrowland in MK. That's certainly not showing us tomorrow. I know epcot's different, but I still never put it together. Maybe I'm just slow.

Sad ..... it is FUTURE World and was to be the future, yet was dated by time it opened. Tomorrowland was not just a name but to be Futuristic but it has fallen short with things like Speedway, COP ... and lack of cohesiveness or plan. Hope it gets love before the 50th 'cause it's the saddest land there.

Tomorrowland WAS supposed to show the future (and did, sorta) for a couple of decades, give or take, after Disneyland opened.

You simply can't keep up with the future unless you build futuristic - WAY OUT there. The future has moved so much quicker than it did in Walt's day. He probably never imagined our technology would be where it is today.

 

[Boski]

Sad ..... it is FUTURE World and was to be the future, yet was dated by time it opened. Tomorrowland was not just a name but to be Futuristic but it has fallen short with things like Speedway, COP ... and lack of cohesiveness or plan. Hope it gets love before the 50th 'cause it's the saddest land there.

I'm normally not a fan of removing or changing of the older rides, but the Speedway needs to go. There are so many things that could be done with that space. Heck at least update the cars to electric powered ones to eliminate the fumes and noise.

 

[HopperFan]

I'm normally not a fan of removing or changing of the older rides, but the Speedway needs to go. There are so many things that could be done with that space. Heck at least update the cars to electric powered ones to eliminate the fumes and noise.

All for it.
They smell toxic.
It's valuable real estate that seems such a waste.

 

[Robo]

It's valuable real estate that seems such a waste.

But, kids, tweens, and young teens -L O V E- it.

 

[HopperFan]

But, kids, tweens, and young teens -L O V E- it.

Oh I know, my DS who will never really drive loves it .......

..... but he/they would get over it if they put something cool in.

 

[GreatLakes]

I love Epcot and it is still my favorite park. My biggest hope is that they don't lose the "Edutainment" factor of the park. I don't necessarily think FW needs to be about the future and bleeding edge inovation as much as technology and it's impact on our present and near future. World of Motion and Spaceship Earth for example were and are as much about the history of technology as the future of it. They make some predictions but that is not really the core of the ride.

If they stick with educating and entertaining us while making tweaks to the overall theme as opposed to an overhaul I'd be happy. I also don't need thrill rides to replace every slow ride.

Oh, if only there was a ride or attraction where you were inside the human body, in a pavilion with exercise stations... Oh, wait....

I really hope they bring back the WoL pavilion and update it. Hopefully part of the referb is a space to move all of the festival stuff to so they can bring back this pavilion. I'd love to see them put in Peloton bikes that you pedal around the world on. Think of a human powered Soarin'.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

If you have ever taken your child to a children's museum, you know that the model works, and continues to work today even with competing technologies. The key is the ability to engage the child in an activity that they will enjoy. Let them learn while they play. Epcot did that very well for a long time, but that stuff is all gone. I'll never understand why when the entire western world is investing more in these museums now than ever before. There is a huge demand for this type of entertainment for children, and it can be geared toward kids from infancy through their teen years (heck, some of it is fun to me at age 50).

 

[sunshine1]

I wished that I had visited Epcot in 1980s-1990s.

I didnt visit it for the first time until 2006.

The first part just looks like a concrete jungle to me - it depresses the hell out of me but I kindda like that.

I imagine what it must have been like but in the 1980s.

 

[Corbie]

Maybe I shouldn't chime in since I haven't been there, but that's never stopped me!

The closest I came was Disneyland's Tomorrow Land in '68 and then in '76. The "Journey through Inner Space" fascinated me. (It helped that "The Fantastic Journey" had recently been released.) Today, in planning for our October trip, nothing seems "futuristic." But I think that could change if Disney focused on creating rides that had that "World's Fair" feel.

For instance, why not take something like Test Track and improve it? Incorporate those flying cars! You could have a "Back to the Future" feel (yes, yes, I know that's Universal) combined with the endeavors of early aviation inventors.

You could take interesting science like Switzerland's particle accelerator (and the possibility of antimatter creation) and make a ride around that.

You could take current and projected science and revamp Inner Space. This time go into a DNA helix and the human genome (which hadn't been discovered back when I rode).

Have trips to Mars, the asteroid belt, the outer rim--even out of our solar system. We know so much more now.

How about the most cutting edge virtual reality ride out there? Something that would blow away what's being done in games? Partner up with a game developer for this.

Explore hologram technology. (Yes, I still want 3D battle chess a la Star Wars.)

Instead, it seems to me that Disney (understandably) wants to tie in too many rides to their movies and hasn't focused enough on the "future" aspect of Epcot. I hope that they take a long, hard look at the original intent and not just revitalize, but add new content. I think we can still be "wowed."

 

[leebee]

I agree. Robots, or more specifically, Artificial Intelligence (AI) seems to be the next frontier of technology. Robots that are capable of teaching themselves rather than relying on humans to input data. (Think IBM's Watson)

I can imagine EPCOT becoming a park that is a true AI experience from start to finish. One where you would encounter various forms of AI throughout your day there. Maybe while planning your trip, you grant permission for "EPCOT" to access your phone and gather data about your various interests based on search history, geographical location, contacts, apps that happen to be in your phone, etc. After data has been compiled a custom-tailored touring plan would be generated and when you arrive at the park you would board some sort of personal vehicle (think Segway or something similar) and that vehicle would be your own personal/virtual tour guide for the day. You could ask it questions about things you see, it could share information (both useful and trivial) about the park, its creation and changes through the years, it's attractions, all the countries in World Showcase.

EPCOT could essentially be a park that uses the latest technology to teach a history lesson. The overall lesson learned and moral of the "EPCOT story" would be: At the end of the day, you realize that while computers/A.I. are both useful and helpful, they are no replacement for actual humans. Real, living, breathing people that are capable of loving and being loved.

I could go on. But while typing this I've recieved multiple texts, emails, and FB notifications so I will have to excuse myself and get back to real life.

Wait, what!?!

Not a big fan of this idea. To begin with, it assumes that everyone has a smart phone. I don't, and am not likely to ever own one, so that'd leave Epcot totally off the itinerary for my family. I can see this being downscaled in some form into one attraction, if it's not cost-prohibitive, but not for an entire theme park. Besides... parents won't let their 10 year olds go to the bathroom alone in WDW- can you imagine them letting a kid explore an entire park for a day without them?

I think Epcot needs a new vision for FutureWorld. I think they missed the mark when the most recent "upgrade" at Spaceship Earth turned it into a "make your own cartoon" ending. The original intent of SE was to show where we have been and where we are headed. This upgrade was the perfect opportunity to show what we accomplished and then speculate on where we are going... Mars, anyone? I think that whole interactive cartoon thing is a cheap cop-out... emphasis on cheap. Easier/cheaper to do than something real. I think Disney should upgrade the Land, Living Seas, and reopen the Wonders of Life Pavilion. Fill them with current ideas/technology and interactive experiences. Kids can see stuff on their smartphones but they can't wave their hands through the air and make music. Mix in some fun rides like Body Wars (updated so the visual and physical are actually in sync so motion sickness is minimized... like with Star Tours) and interactive stuff (like at the end of Figment, or Sum of All Thrills... lots of new tech stuff can be employed) and really push for the edutainment that Epcot was originally designed to showcase. I think that Disney gave up on Epcot as sponsorship dwindled. Let the Imagineers IMAGINE and then make Epcot back into a real theme park, not a couple of headliner rides and World Showcase. Focus Epcot into an experience that uses our history to show how we got to where we are today, and where we want to go in the future.

 

[dreiwhit]

My dh works in R&D and the bolded isn't entirely true. Of course they are trying to survive but it is not at the cost of innovation.

He's lucky. I've read quite a few articles about how companies had to cut back R&D just to save money.

 

[Tomh]

OP, that is a very insightful theory, and I bet it is, at least in part, correct. I had never really thought about it, but it is completely true, people can get all kinds of information almost immediately now, as soon as things happen.

On the other hand, experiencing things hands on is far different from seeing them on a computer, or TV screen. I still think the idea of Future World is viable. The problem is that it takes constant re-investment. That was the idea behind the sponsorship model, that the companies involved would refresh their attractions regularly, keeping up with the pace of technology. Unfortunately, the model fails, at least in part because the companies that make tech are often volatile, and often by the time they are due to refresh their pavilion / attraction, they are no longer in the financial position to do so.

I think that ultimately, no one, either Disney, or outside corporations, will be willing to put forth the money that is really necessary to keep something like Future World up to date. We are very likely about to see a significant change to Future World. IP is going to take over. It is going to be all about Disney. While that will take away some of what we used to love about it, I think going forward, it is really the only choice they have. When it is all about Disney, then they are in control, and hopefully, that means that it will be a bit better cared for going forward.