How powerful is a PRAYER?

[Aidensmom]

Bolding mine. So only those who love god have good things happen? Those who don't are punished with death and disease.

I don't believe disease and death is a "punishment" for anyone, it is just a normal part of life. Good and bad things happen to everyone.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

Scenario.....

A tornado is heading for two houses. The people living in the houses are equally christian and praying. The tornado destroys both houses but one family lives and the other family dies.

The family that lives praises the lord and declares that praying saved them. The other family has no voice to be heard but others say that they are now with god and it was his will.

No matter how things turn out it is always a win-win situation when it comes to religion. That type of thinking is what many people need IMO and that is why people BELIEVE.

For many others it is simply the work of nature.

Yes, and some people would define that as free will either way you look at it.

 

[orljustin]

Yes, and some people would define that as free will either way you look at it.

...and we're back to finding that nothing you do particularly affects anything that happens to ya. Unless you knelt to pray, and a wooden beam missed your head by an inch. Or you could have dropped a contact instead .

 

[freckles and boo]

I just wanted to point out that people can believe in the power of prayer without subscribing to organized religion. This thread started out asking about prayer in general and has evolved into a lot of questions about issues addressed in the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted to say that I know plenty of spiritual people that don't accept the Bible as their guidebook or attend a church, but they still believe in God.

I am married to one. He still believes in God although he is thoroughly disillusioned with religion in general. He was raised a Catholic. He disagrees with more of the churches positions on social issues than I can count and is convinced at this point that the church is full of hypocrites and the aging trying to get their ticket to heaven. I don't agree with all of that - I am sure many folks are there for sincere reasons and hold their faith deeply. It is ironic that I, the atheist, have a much less critical take on the Catholic Church than he does.

 

[jimmiej]

Aren't we all god's children?

So two newly created beings had the experience and knowledge to know that their creator was setting them up? Surely you know the surest way to get a child to do something is to expressly tell them NOT to do it.

Yes, but Adam & Eve appear to be adults in the Genesis account. Not really important though.

God gave them paradise, everything they needed. But, they were tempted by Satan & sinned. God drove them out of the Garden of Eden. Basically, God told them their life would be hard & full of difficulties. Scripture doesn't imply they knew they were being "set up."

 

[Aidensmom]

Scenario.....

A tornado is heading for two houses. The people living in the houses are equally christian and praying. The tornado destroys both houses but one family lives and the other family dies.

The family that lives praises the lord and declares that praying saved them. The other family has no voice to be heard but others say that they are now with god and it was his will.

No matter how things turn out it is always a win-win situation when it comes to religion. That type of thinking is what many people need IMO and that is why people BELIEVE.

For many others it is simply the work of nature.

As a Christian, I would say that it was the one family's "time" to go, and it wasn't the others. I believe that sentiment would also be held by many non-Christians.

None of us KNOW for sure the reason for anything like that.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Scenario.....

A tornado is heading for two houses. The people living in the houses are equally christian and praying. The tornado destroys both houses but one family lives and the other family dies.

The family that lives praises the lord and declares that praying saved them. The other family has no voice to be heard but others say that they are now with god and it was his will.

No matter how things turn out it is always a win-win situation when it comes to religion. That type of thinking is what many people need IMO and that is why people BELIEVE.

For many others it is simply the work of nature.

I think it's a work of nature and the family that lived was lucky enough to be outside of the direct path or their house was stronger or whatever. I can say that when I've been going through something difficult-car accident, surgery-I've been praying pretty hard, but I don't think that the prayer was the reason I came out of those things ok.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

...and we're back to finding that nothing you do particularly affects anything that happens to ya. Unless you knelt to pray, and a wooden beam missed your head by an inch. Or you could have dropped a contact instead .

It depends on your perspective. If you think that prayer should offer you something that you specifically ask for, then I think people would give up on it altogether because obviously we would all be disappointed. As I said at the very beginning of this thread, I don't pray for specific things to happen, but rather for strength, guidance and to accept God's will.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I am married to one. He still believes in God although he is thoroughly disillusioned with religion in general. He was raised a Catholic. He disagrees with more of the churches positions on social issues than I can count and is convinced at this point that the church is full of hypocrites and the aging trying to get their ticket to heaven. I don't agree with all of that - I am sure many folks are there for sincere reasons and hold their faith deeply. It is ironic that I, the atheist, have a much less critical take on the Catholic Church than he does.

I think a lot of athiests are more tolerant than a lot of Christians. I've never been pressured to become an athiest by anyone, but I sure have been told I'm not a "real Christian" because I'm Catholic by a lot of Christians!

 

[orljustin]

In the case of the tornado, though, you can pray to be spared all you want, and one of them gets hit and the other doesn't. Doesn't particularly matter. If you were using that time to meditate on your life through your prayer, you might die in a better mood, I guess.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

I am married to one. He still believes in God although he is thoroughly disillusioned with religion in general. He was raised a Catholic. He disagrees with more of the churches positions on social issues than I can count and is convinced at this point that the church is full of hypocrites and the aging trying to get their ticket to heaven. I don't agree with all of that - I am sure many folks are there for sincere reasons and hold their faith deeply. It is ironic that I, the atheist, have a much less critical take on the Catholic Church than he does.

Just a thought, but maybe because he feels like the church failed him. He may have placed a lot of trust in it and when it let him down, he was very hurt and angry. He has personal reason to feel resentful, whereas you can remain more objective as an outsider.

 

[rockbottomsound]

You could also look at it the total opposite way. The ones that died were done the favor and were able to get off of this rock sooner rather than later to go to a much better place. What happens after this life is what matters. Not this world or life. I tend to believe the mere 70-80 years we spend on this rock is merely a test to see if we are worthy to go to the better place after we die. The comfort we live in during this life is not what matters, but how we act as humans, and what good we can manage to do while we're here. Not living in total luxery the entire time. IMO

 

[SwedishMeatball]

In the case of the tornado, though, you can pray to be spared all you want, and one of them gets hit and the other doesn't. Doesn't particularly matter. If you were using that time to meditate on your life through your prayer, you might die in a better mood, I guess.

Sure, think about all the people that haven't prayed in ages and then the plane is going down and they start. In that case I don't know if that individual is doing it out of fear or for comfort.

 

[freckles and boo]

Scenario.....

A tornado is heading for two houses. The people living in the houses are equally christian and praying. The tornado destroys both houses but one family lives and the other family dies.

The family that lives praises the lord and declares that praying saved them. The other family has no voice to be heard but others say that they are now with god and it was his will.

No matter how things turn out it is always a win-win situation when it comes to religion. That type of thinking is what many people need IMO and that is why people BELIEVE.

For many others it is simply the work of nature.

I am sorry, but the practical fool that I am would ask more questions. Did they know they lived in an area prone to tornadoes? Did both families take shelter in basements, storm cellars, or safe places? Were they listening to the radio when the sky turned green and did they heed the warning sirens? If the family that survived was the only one that took appropriate action, they saved their own lives. They can credit God if they like, but their own actions made the real difference. If the other family just dropped to their knees without taking shelter and begged to be spared, I really think they were easy-pickings. Now if both took equal action by seeking appropriate shelter, it was simply a terrible tornado that went one way instead of the other. Nature does that sometimes.

 

[Aidensmom]

In the case of the tornado, though, you can pray to be spared all you want, and one of them gets hit and the other doesn't. Doesn't particularly matter. If you were using that time to meditate on your life through your prayer, you might die in a better mood, I guess.

You know, I am sure there are even people who don't believe in God who "pray" to be spared when a tornado is about to blow their home away. It is human nature to want to be spared. I think just about anyone's faith is put to a test in the face of the sudden possibility of death. I personally don't believe that prayer is what causes a particular home to be spared or another taken away at the time of a natural disaster, but yes, prayer would be comforting in that instance to myself in either outcome.

 

[jimmiej]

Some of you have been discussing the purpose of prayer. Allow me to give my $.02. For me, prayer is about telling God my desires, needs, wants, asking forgiveness, being thankful, sharing sorrow & happiness, etc. Sometimes it's about me, & sometimes it's about others. It has very little to do with some sort of positive outlook or a good feeling. Jesus said, "You have not because you ask not." Paul told us to "pray continually." I claim this promise from God:

Psalm 37

4 Delight yourself in the LORD
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

Again, JMO.

 

[orljustin]

You could also look at it the total opposite way. The ones that died were done the favor and were able to get off of this rock sooner rather than later to go to a much better place. What happens after this life is what matters. Not this world or life. I tend to believe the mere 70-80 years we spend on this rock is merely a test to see if we are worthy to go to the better place after we die. The comfort we live in during this life is not what matters, but how we act as humans, and what good we can manage to do while we're here. Not living in total luxery the entire time. IMO

Good, then religion shouldn't matter at all. Whew.

 

[Buckalew11]

Right, according to that post, it more about our worthiness and how good we have been while here. If that is the case, there are a lot of "whews". And I am not one of them. I feel sure I am not good enough to enter Heaven. Nor will I ever be. I look around me and see better people everywhere.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Right, according to that post, it more about our worthiness and how good we have been while here. If that is the case, there are a lot of "whews". And I am not one of them. I feel sure I am not good enough to enter Heaven. Nor will I ever be. I look around me and see better people everywhere.

Me too. And a lot of those better people are Non-Christians! That's why I'm glad that it is God who decides those things. I'm only tasked with doing the best I can with what I've got.

 

[rockbottomsound]

Good, then religion shouldn't matter at all. Whew.

I'm not exactly sure how you got that from my post. I was just posting an alternative view on the whole tornado scenario.

I don't know if I would classify it as "religious" being that IMO there are so many false religions out there. IMO its about being a good Christian, trying to be a positive influence, staying away from bad habits, things, actions, and generally trying to do good in life. But I also believe its about recognizing that Jesus does exist to save us from eternal nothingness, or worse, and giving him his due props for that. If you want to call that being religous, I guess you can. But just going to a particular church is not necessarily the answer at all. Its about your lifestyle, attitudes, goodness etc., not about going to a church and then leading an immoral life the rest of the time.

In my post I simply meant this life is just temporary, kind of the warm up show for the main attraction after we die, IMO. Otherwise, if this mere 70-80 years on this rock is all there is.......