How powerful is a PRAYER?

[Kath2003]

We might not be alone and if we are not, how did the other life forms come about?

John

Same way we came about?

The problem with God/creation is this:

1. There is no reason why God and evolution cannot go hand-in-hand. If your God is all knowing, all powerful etc. then he or she could have set the world up with random particles that collided randomly etc. and eventually evolved into a human being. Ruling out creationism does NOT rule out evolution.

2. In any statistical or logical problem, there is a null hypothesis. This null hypothesis states that there is NO relationship between x and y.

Religion, however, assumes the null hypothesis to be that there IS a relationship between God and x.

One of the major problems non-believers have with any organized religion is that they cannot see how a God can be the default answer. If you do not know why something has happened, you don't attribute it to a higher force. You research it. You find the answers. You keep asking questions.

Gods are based on societies, myths, books, historical documents and cultures. VERY LITTLE evidence for Gods from any religion exists beyond the religious texts (the proof for which is themselves, making them a logical impossibility).

Personally I find the "We don't know" answer far more feasible than the "We don't know therefore there must be a God!" answer, given that there is little/no accurate evidence for the second half of the latter statement.

 

[Fitswimmer]

There is no reason why God and evolution cannot go hand-in-hand. If your God is all knowing, all powerful etc. then he or she could have set the world up with random particles that collided randomly etc. and eventually evolved into a human being. Ruling out creationism does NOT rule out evolution.

I don't look to my faith for answers about scientific questions. I look to my faith to help me get through the day. So, for me the two co-exist pretty peacefully. If pressed, I guess I would agree with the above, that God is the First Cause (term from Thomas Aquinas) of all that is.

If I or someone I love gets sick or hurt, I thank God for giving the scientist the ability to create the medicine that helps us and for the minds of the Doctors that care for us. I think God works through lots of people, even people who don't believe in Him.

 

[jimmiej]

I very much believe in God, and believe that we can be changed through our prayers to God.

But I do not believe that he is answering prayers. If he is everything I believe he is, he wouldn't choose to answer some people's prayers and not others. I think he pretty much just stays out of things.

The Bible seems to say otherwise:

James 5

16 The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.

*JoyG spoke about this earlier.

 

[Disney Doll]

Most people who don't believe prayer is useful in a practical sense have acknowledged that it holds therapeutic value. Just because someone doesn't believe prayers "work" doesn't mean they aren't interested in the subject. Why should someone who doesn't believe a prayer has power decline to participate in this conversation? The topic of the thread is "How powerful is a PRAYER?". All of us are entitled to respond with our opinions.

Interest is one thing. Disparaging comments are another. It seems prayer, even for those who don't believe, is a polarizing subject.

 

[freckles and boo]

I think God works through lots of people, even people who don't believe in Him.

This is a real question, not a taunt. You believe that God works through non-believers. Obviously then you believe that God somehow created all people. If you subscribe to the father analogy, do you believe God is punitive toward those who don't believe? For example, do you believe that I am going to go to hell/pergatory because I don't believe in God, even though by any measure I try to live a very moral and decent life? I have heard many times "Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven". Heaven really isn't on my radar and I tend to believe that dead is dead and that we only continue to "live on" until those who remember us are also dead. But for those who do believe, can a non-believer get into Heaven? Is God merciful or vengeful? Does he only love the children who love him back? And do you feel morally superior by believing?

 

[JennyMominRI]

This is a real question, not a taunt. You believe that God works through non-believers. Obviously then you believe that God somehow created all people. If you subscribe to the father analogy, do you believe God is punitive toward those who don't believe? For example, do you believe that I am going to go to hell/pergatory because I don't believe in God, even though by any measure I try to live a very moral and decent life? I have heard many times "Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven". Heaven really isn't on my radar and I tend to believe that dead is dead and that we only continue to "live on" until those who remember us are also dead. But for those who do believe, can a non-believer get into Heaven? Is God merciful or vengeful? Does he only love the children who love him back? And do you feel morally superior by believing?

Can I answer this too.. Jews don't have a set belief in the afterlife Known as the World to come.. There are various opinions on the world to come..Anything from a Christian like heaven, to reincarnation ,to ressurection to simply ceasing to be.. But Jews believe that ALL people can have place in the world to come..Religion does not matter..It's how you treat people in your life that matter,not whether you believe what I believe ..This is why Jews don't prostelytize. You do need to be Jewish to be a good person,nor do you need to be Jewish to have a place in the world to come.

 

[John VN]

I don't look to my faith for answers about scientific questions. I look to my faith to help me get through the day. So, for me the two co-exist pretty peacefully. If pressed, I guess I would agree with the above, that God is the First Cause (term from Thomas Aquinas) of all that is.

If I or someone I love gets sick or hurt, I thank God for giving the scientist the ability to create the medicine that helps us and for the minds of the Doctors that care for us. I think God works through lots of people, even people who don't believe in Him.

Not to be an antagonist, but if your loved one gets hurt by a drunk driver do you give thanks that god only allowed for an injury that is survivable and what if your love one dies, then what thanks do you give, that the person is then in heaven?

 

[SwedishMeatball]

This is a real question, not a taunt. You believe that God works through non-believers. Obviously then you believe that God somehow created all people. If you subscribe to the father analogy, do you believe God is punitive toward those who don't believe? For example, do you believe that I am going to go to hell/pergatory because I don't believe in God, even though by any measure I try to live a very moral and decent life? I have heard many times "Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven". Heaven really isn't on my radar and I tend to believe that dead is dead and that we only continue to "live on" until those who remember us are also dead. But for those who do believe, can a non-believer get into Heaven? Is God merciful or vengeful? Does he only love the children who love him back? And do you feel morally superior by believing?

The answers will vary according to who you ask.

I had go rounds with my Pastor in Confirmation class, but I do not believe every word of the Bible. Some would judge me harshly for that. I remember being really young and asking my mom how the children in other countries who died before being told about Jesus would be able to go to heaven. She didn't have some prophetic answer, but just told me that she believed they would go to heaven. For people that don't believe it must all seem very convenient to pick and choose what you decide to believe in. It is very complicated and while on this earth none of us will ever find all the answers to life's mysteries. I just live my life the best I can and am thankful to believe. I have known some pious people in my life, but I've also known people who don't believe that act superior because they feel that they are right and I am wrong.

 

[Disney Doll]

The intricacies of the body (human or animal) is one of the things that leads be to believe there isn't a creator or designer. There are too many things not right with our 'design' for it to be done by anyone/anything with intelligence.

Now isn't it funny??? As a nurse, I am amazed at the human body, how wonderfully it functions, how amazingly it all usually works together, and how resilient it is.

Think about the kidneys...2 relatively small organs...about the size of your hand, if that... which take care of metabolizing waste. The man-made replacement for them, the dialysis machine, is about the size of a small refrigerator.

 

[Amity 3]

Not to be an antagonist, but if your loved one gets hurt by a drunk driver do you give thanks that god only allowed for an injury that is survivable and what if your love one dies, then what thanks do you give, that the person is then in heaven?

I look at it this way:

if you believe in Heaven and it's the most beautiful, peaceful place to be and you're reunited with all of your loved ones who have gone here before you and God himself...

why do you wear a seatbelt when you drive?

short of committing suicide, death should be the greatest thing in the world for a believer. why are we praying for their recovery from a surgery? we should be praying God lets them die and hang out with him in Heaven.

 

[basas]

I believe prayer is more powerful than we could possibly even know.

 

[Fitswimmer]

This is a real question, not a taunt. You believe that God works through non-believers. Obviously then you believe that God somehow created all people. If you subscribe to the father analogy, do you believe God is punitive toward those who don't believe? For example, do you believe that I am going to go to hell/pergatory because I don't believe in God, even though by any measure I try to live a very moral and decent life? I have heard many times "Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven". Heaven really isn't on my radar and I tend to believe that dead is dead and that we only continue to "live on" until those who remember us are also dead. But for those who do believe, can a non-believer get into Heaven? Is God merciful or vengeful? Does he only love the children who love him back? And do you feel morally superior by believing?

I know this is going to sound like a cop-out, but I don't know what's going to happen to you or anyone after they die. I'm not God, so I can't judge anyone's heart. I'm not God, so I don't know what criteria He uses to decide who gets into Heaven and who doesn't. I know what I believe will get me into Heaven and I'm trying to do those things, but honestly, I could be wrong. That's why it's faith.

 

[Brier Rose]

I look at it this way:

if you believe in Heaven and it's the most beautiful, peaceful place to be and you're reunited with all of your loved ones who have gone here before you and God himself...

why do you wear a seatbelt when you drive?

short of committing suicide, death should be the greatest thing in the world for a believer. why are we praying for their recovery from a surgery? we should be praying God lets them die and hang out with him in Heaven.

Speaking for myself only..it's selfishness. I pray for those I love not to die because I want them here with me.

I pray for myself not to die because I don't want to leave my children without their mother.

Do I believe that we'd all be better off in Heaven..of course, but that doesn't mean it's easy to let go.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Not to be an antagonist, but if your loved one gets hurt by a drunk driver do you give thanks that god only allowed for an injury that is survivable and what if your love one dies, then what thanks do you give, that the person is then in heaven?

If something like that should happen, I would pray for the strength to get through it. To get up every day and go on after such a loss. I would also hope that I would have the ability to pray for the driver, that they get help, although I'm sure that ability would not come for some time.

The person that is gone is beyond my prayers now, he/she is with God.

If they were hurt and survived, it's no different than what I said before-I would pray for the Doctors, and be thankful that my loved one was still alive.

 

[Amity 3]

they get help, although I'm sure that ability would not come for some time.

The person that is gone is beyond my prayers now, he/she is with God.
.

what if they're not, and in Hell?

I don't believe in heaven or hell, but what's the point in praying for someone that is hanging around in hell?

 

[JoyG]

what if they're not, and in Hell?

I don't believe in heaven or hell, but what's the point in praying for someone that is hanging around in hell?

Some faiths don't believe in praying for anyone that is dead.

Once you get where you're going...that's it.

 

[JoyG]

Not to be an antagonist, but if your loved one gets hurt by a drunk driver do you give thanks that god only allowed for an injury that is survivable and what if your love one dies, then what thanks do you give, that the person is then in heaven?

Actually, in my church when someone dies who lived their life professing to love God (even if they die tragically young) we usually say things like, "They went home to be with the Lord" or "The Lord called him Home." We are sort of thanking God...not that we lost them, but that they're "Home".

 

[Fitswimmer]

what if they're not, and in Hell?

I don't believe in heaven or hell, but what's the point in praying for someone that is hanging around in hell?

Like I said in my other post, I'm not God so I don't know where people go after they die or what the criteria is. Catholic tradition says that there is a period of purification after death, because only pure souls can enter Heaven and see God. That tradition also says that prayers from those left behind can help shorten that time of purification. Honestly, I don't know how I feel about that. I can accept that only pure souls can see God, but I would think that a person's time of purification would depend more on the way they lived their life than the number of folks praying for them.

 

[Amity 3]

Some faiths don't believe in praying for anyone that is dead.

Once you get where you're going...that's it.

so when do you quit praying for them, at the called time of death?

"Uncle Bob died today at 2:43 AM after three hours in ICU. despite your prayers, he was given a horrible case of cancer by Jesus. instead of a humane death, Jesus wanted it it to last three months and rot his body away to nothing."

RIP Uncle Bob, I hope you lived a good life. if not, enjoy an eternity of flesh tearing.

I don't buy it for a minute.

 

[jimmiej]

Did anyone say anything about expecting "yes"s to any question? I don't think anyone did, and that certainly doesn't lead to any conclusion about existance.

Not in so many words, but these quotes seem to insinuate just that:

That's the typical answer to these types of threads. If you get it, it worked, if you didn't it worked, you don't know what you want/need...etc....etc...

Prayer and the Christian God is very well set-up. Prayer and God essentially cannot fail:

Pray --> Get what you prayed for --> God blessing you

Pray --> Don't get what you prayed for --> God testing you

Pray --> Nothing changes --> Not part of God's plan