How money changes people

[irishsharon]

When there are strings attached or expectations of being rewarded for HELPING others that is the problem.

 

[moepanz]

OP, so sorry for all that you are going through! I have had/still have similar situations on both sides of our family. (me and dh) It is so incredibly frustrating. My husband and I without question have lowest income being we are on 1 salary with a mortgage and 3 kids, but yet we were always going out of pocket to help our sick parents. (my mom lung cancer, his mom colon cancer and hit buy a car and his dad Alzheimers etc) My moms illness cost us thousands (long story, she her turn while we were on a last family trip to Disney) We all live in NY had to travel back and forth to FLA ended up having to Medi Jet her home. My brother who makes more than my husband no kids and his wife works full time "had no money" to chip into help with the bills at all 0 zip nada! Came to find out after mom passed that my brother and his wife were being supported buy my mother, she was their other full time salary She paid for their wedding helped them buy a car, was paying off their CC debt etc, No money for the funeral either. My dad had to cash in his life insurance policy to pay for that. Then we moved my MIL in with us, it cost us some $ to set her up, but when it came time to settle all the bills, my very, very well off BIL stepped in an took what he thought he was owed (he bought her a bathrobe and slippers) we never took a dime, and the "poor" single SIL took the rest and is getting 60% of the sale of the MIL's codo because she is single. I could go on for hours. But oh well, DH and I will come out of this knowing we never took anything that was not ours and can look everyone in the face, what we did was our choice our "gifts" to our parents, we felt it was the least we could do for all they did for us.

Bottom line is your parents bare some responsibility, but your brother made a promise and if he can't keep with out expecting something in return that is his problem!!!! Sounds like things changed somewhat for him financially or maybe his wife got tired of "her" $ going elsewhere and wants something in return, either way he is 100% wrong to expect anything in return from your mom and dad and I hope they are not made to feel guilty that they accepted an offer of a gift form you brother. I mean really, if our parents handed us a "bill" for what is cost to support us growing up, we would all be in some financial trouble. Your brother needs to leave them alone and deal, either cut them off or keep paying either way he is not entitled to throw his "gift" back in their faces.

Good Luck with this and I hope you all come out of this OK!

 

[disneychic2]

I'm not supporting the backdoor way that the brother is handling this if this is indeed how the situation is. But I'm assuming that the OP's parents accepted his offer of help knowing that they could not afford to retire on their own income at the time. What did they think would happen if the brother was no longer capable of giving them that "little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable"? Sounds like they were a little too eager to retire early on someone else's dime.

Of course, we only know what the OP is telling us. And she only knows what the parents have told her. She hasn't even spoken with the wealthy brother, who "spoils" his kids, to get his perspective. For all we know, this may have been the agreement all along and the brother is asking the parents to make good on their promise by formalizing it with their will.

This is all very true. And I agree that the parents seemed a bit eager to retire. Further, it looks as though they hadn't saved much toward retirement to boot. It's always difficult to judge things when only getting one side of a story and that information is second hand. I'm sure you join me in hoping for a good outcome for all concerned.

 

[csharpwv]

OK, this is a very tough situation - BUT there is some sense to be made.

They are in fact better off signing their home over to SOMEONE else in the family. It is actually a very common way to take the asset out of their name, and thus protected from the asset provision of Medicare.
If they would need to be placed in a nursing home or require long term medical care, their home would be shielded from an assessment of their assets.

My dad retired early to care for my mom who has since passed away, and the company he had worked for just filed or bankruptcy - so there are many issues that come from the situation that could cause some difficulty in the coming years.

Meanwhile.... one sibling has filed for divorce, filed for bankruptcy, and hasn't paid a dime of his own legal expenses - guess who has paid for that? Yep, dear old Dad - for the divorce. AND his girlfriend's grandmother paid for the bankruptcy.

When he and his wife were together they were making around $100,000 a year and now, after the divorce, neither one of them has a thing to show for the 10+ years of marriage AND included the home in the bankruptcy so every dime they put in to the home (mortgage, improvements etc) is 100% loss.

Around Christmas my wife and I were on our way to Dad's and received a call on our way there from said sibling's GF asking if we wanted to have dinner with them - while it was completely out of the ordinary of absolutely zero contact unless he needed something.... we accepted the invitation and while I didn't realize it at the time, a week or so later I realized exactly why they called - looking back at the conversation, he was asking us for the money to file for bankruptcy. I didn't even realize it because he never came out and ASKED - it was a tale of woes and all the things his ex had done to 'screw' him, and how he had no money to live on....
Yet, just a few months later they are the proud owners of two motorcycles...

Money isn't important to anyone until they don't have any of their own, and they immediately start looking for people that DO have money.

We aren't by any means wealthy, we live a comfortable life, are saving diligently for retirement, and take every step we can not to pay too much for what we want. I drive my wife crazy because from the time I decide to make a purchase until the time it is actually done can range from days to.... months... to a year, or two.

In balance, we do travel a lot, and enjoy spending time with family and invite them along with accommodations at our expense, and often taking care of other expenses for them as well just because we love them.

So while things are always a mess when it comes to who gets what - don't take it to heart, so long as you receive a few items from their estate to pass on the your kids - remember it is just 'stuff', and money. You'll always have money, you won't always have your family.

There is only one word to describe people who live their lives to acquire more, and more, and more, even what they aren't entitled to - and that word is greed. It is a devil that will never be satisfied once someone is bitten.

 

[MomToOne]

I suspect that if the brother was here to join into the discussion, he'd have a different story to tell. We are only getting one half (if that) of a very emotional story - that raises major red flags for me.

The brother may very well be a jerk - or he may not. He may have had other discussions with the parents that the OP doesn't know about. Or not. We can't really tell unless he was to jump in on this conversation.

The OP needs to talk to her brother and get the WHOLE story.

 

[ariel71]

we are both fine with the house being willed to the other brother, the problem is that my parents aren't comfortable with it, they're also afraid that even if they did do it, that he can just stop giving them money and their house is still his, and believe it or not, he could possibly do that ! .

This doesn't make sense to me.

How does amending their wills to have your brother inherit the house have anything to do with his ability to do anything with the house now? A will goes into effect upon death. At the time the house would go to your brother, they will be dead. If he does cut them off at some point in the future, they can always amend the will again to remove him.

I just don't get the "he can cut them off and would still HAVE the house".

 

[DisneyEater]

This doesn't make sense to me.

How does amending their wills to have your brother inherit the house have anything to do with his ability to do anything with the house now? A will goes into effect upon death. At the time the house would go to your brother, they will be dead. If he does cut them off at some point in the future, they can always amend the will again to remove him.

I just don't get the "he can cut them off and would still HAVE the house".

I think the OP said he wanted to house signed over to him now, not willed to him.

 

[yoopermom]

OP I would have your parents see a lawyer immediately.

My ILs did something similar, retired too early, with very little assets except their home.

They sucked it up, paid the $$$ for an excellent lawter who specializes in trusts, and now the house is in my DSIL's name, she pays them X$ per month, and they will live there until they die (or go into a nursing home).

It was NOT cheap, but it was the BEST thing they could have done.

Good luck and .

Terri

 

[Marionnette]

I think the OP said he wanted to house signed over to him now, not willed to him.

Re-read the OP:

I don't like to share things on a message board, i'm laid back and pretty care free, but all of a sudden i find myself feeling sick over a family situation.
My oldest brother is well off, im talking his DD was given a BMW for her birthday type well off and his home is worth a cpl million.
Anyway, a few years back he told my parents they should retire and he would help them out with the bills so they could be comfortable, so they did ! well fast forward to this week when he saw my folks will, simply put, he is going to cut them off unless the will states that their home be signed over to him, they also had a few personal things willed to my other brother and myself, which he wants changed too. ((snip))

Assuming that the parents were to put this into their wills, the brother will not get the house until after BOTH parents pass away and only if a nursing home doesn't lay claim to it first. And our lawyer advised us that personal possessions that we want to go specifically to one child or the other should not be included in the will unless we want the estate to pay taxes on them. We just told the kids that items like my engagement ring and wedding bands are to be distributed in a certain manner after we pass on. This could be why the brother wants those items changed in the will...not to inherit them himself but to save them the cost of including them in the "estate".

To me, it sounds as if the OP does not have all of her facts.

 

[ariel71]

I think the OP said he wanted to house signed over to him now, not willed to him.

She specifically says "willed to him" twice. If she means deeded now that is an entirely different legal situation.

 

[eliza61]

This doesn't make sense to me.

How does amending their wills to have your brother inherit the house have anything to do with his ability to do anything with the house now? A will goes into effect upon death. At the time the house would go to your brother, they will be dead. If he does cut them off at some point in the future, they can always amend the will again to remove him.

I just don't get the "he can cut them off and would still HAVE the house".

truthfully I took that as the treat son was using on the parents (I could be totally wrong). As he is telling the parents that if they don't amend their will he will cut them off and they will no longer be able to stay in the house

 

[drcmk]

It seems to me that people from a certain generation have the expectation that simply because they lived for a certain number of years that they "deserve" a long, healthy retirement during which they can live in their own home (or move to something just as nice), maintain their standard of living and have plenty of leisure, even if they haven't saved enough money to afford this, or even thought about how to afford it. It also seems like these people aren't making any plans for the time when they will not be able to care for themselves when their health starts to fail, when life becomes considerably more expensive.

When people aren't earning money and don't have assets, they have to reduce their expenses. If elderly people become dependent on younger people, then they have to accept that the money is not "theirs" and that they are beholden to the people who are supporting them. No one gets a free ride.

 

[angela3676]

This is between your parents and your brother. Your parents should handle this themselves. I don't see a good ending to anything that would include you and brother #2 getting involved. It will only drive a wedge between you and your sibling. But since your parents have dragged you into this, the loving thing to do would be to tell them that you have no interest in laying claim to their assets and that if they want to leave the house to your brother, they can do so with your blessing. This takes the emotional burden off of your parents since I'm sure that they are upset that they will have less to leave to you and your other brother.

Well Said. You only have one set of parents and life is so very short.

 

[Kellydelly]

There are two sides to every story. If your brother is paying the mortgage for your parents, then I believe it is fair for him to ask the home be left to him in their will. Why would that even be an issue for you? If your parents are both active and healthy, they can get jobs and pay their own bills. If your parents are enjoying retirement, then let your brother recoup the money he is paying out to them. I am sure he's giving them a nice allowance, right? Are they both collecting social security? How old are your parents?

 

[luvmy3]

truthfully I took that as the treat son was using on the parents (I could be totally wrong). As he is telling the parents that if they don't amend their will he will cut them off and they will no longer be able to stay in the house

But the OP said they paid for the house, and that he gives them not much. I'm confused on what exactly the brother is doing to keep the parents in their home.

from the OP

it's the fact that they feel like they have no other options if they want to keep their house ( and yes they paid for the house themselves )

 

[Marionnette]

But the OP said they paid for the house, and that he gives them not much. I'm confused on what exactly the brother is doing to keep the parents in their home.

from the OP
Quote:

it's the fact that they feel like they have no other options if they want to keep their house ( and yes they paid for the house themselves )

Which is followed by:

they can't afford to stay there without that extra they get from him monthly,

The house might be "paid for" but they cannot afford to keep it without assistance from the brother (or someone). Maintenance, taxes, heating/cooling costs all factor into the cost of keeping a house. It sounds like the OP's parents don't have the means to take care of those things AND cover their other costs.

 

[beansmom]

I was upset to say the least after caring for our Dad for 12 years that they would take the money they didn't need that we desperately needed to keep our heat and electric going (ended up using a credit card to cover). My husband works two jobs and I am full time also, but we can barely pay our bills each month. It just really burned me when they never cared about him enough when he was alive, yet felt they had the right to his things and his money.

it's none of my business, of course, and OT but, frankly, if YOU are in these dire financial straits, maybe you shouldn't be planning a vacation right now.

I have had my financial woes and for many years (mainly while my children were young) we struggled to make ends meet. We didn't take vacations or do anything 'extra'. Vacations are a luxury, not a right.

JMTCW and you may flame away but i am just offering some been there done that advice....i'd hate to see you in the shoes of the OP's parents in the future.

 

[Pesky]

As for the OP, I wouldn't let yourself get caught in the middle of this. Two things to advise your parents:
1. They need to tell him that keeping this a secret from his siblings is wrong and if he doesn't tell them, they will. His choice. This is family, not a top-secret ops team. Also, keeping it a secret and trying to "steal" items now is only guaranteeing that he will alienate himself from his other 2 siblings.

2. They need to decide how dependent they want to be. I agree with the other pps that they decided to retire before they could independently afford it. They decided to be dependent on one son. Period. They either need to get out of the house they are in and free themselves of that dependency or stay and be subject to the whims of this giver. Quite frankly, given it seems he has changed his mind already, I'm not sure I'd want to be subject to that.

Beyond that advice, there is really nothing more to be done. It's your parents' home and assets, it is their call. You've made your offer of assistance and done what you can, unless you want to call your brother directly.

 

[beansmom]

They need to tell him that keeping this a secret from his siblings is wrong and if he doesn't tell them, they will. His choice. This is family, not a top-secret ops team. Also, keeping it a secret and trying to "steal" items now is only guaranteeing that he will alienate himself from his other 2 siblings.

QUOTE]

i disagree. He has a right to ask that his personal business remain confidential. We don't discuss our financial status with our children and neither do our parents discuss theirs with us. My husband is executor of his mother's will and he has no clue what is in it. He will find out when he has a need to know upon her death.

Some things are just 'nunya'...we don't discuss our sex lives, either.

 

[luvmy3]

Which is followed by:



The house might be "paid for" but they cannot afford to keep it without assistance from the brother (or someone). Maintenance, taxes, heating/cooling costs all factor into the cost of keeping a house. It sounds like the OP's parents don't have the means to take care of those things AND cover their other costs.

And she also posted this:

as for how much money they get, um seriously it's really not that much. .

THIS ! I guess that's how I feel, my other brother and I are the one's who help my parents out when they don't feel good, need something fixed etc..we will be the one's who will care for my parents when they need it, we will always be there for them and the other brother will not, he's just the one giving them a little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable !

I don't understand how he doesn't send "that much" and "he just gives them a little extra money to help out with a couple bills and live comfortably" suddenly turns into the parents not being able to stay in their home if he doesn't send the money.
In one post the OP makes it seem like the parents are in dire straits without his help, and in others she brushes it off like what he pays for is no big deal. (Live comfortably isn't the same as being in need of help to live).
It can't be both IMO, which is why I'm having a hard time figuring out what the actual story is.