How might the Christmas Day possible terrorist attack change domestic air travel?

[snowbunny]

I just read an article that say the bomber's father went to the US Embassy in Nigeria (making a long trek across his country to get there) to warn them of his son's religious beliefs and that son might try something. US did not find enough evidence to put son on the no fly list or pull his visa (which was valid from June 2008 to June 2010).

Yes, and this is why the TSA theater is a ridiculous show.

To the poster @14 who blamed lax screening in Nigeria...please. You can jump up and down and scream (kind of like the FBI agents who were trying to get their supervisors, anyone, to take notice of their observation that Saudi nationals were taking flight training on jumbo jets without learning how to land them) - and it makes no difference. Yet that TSA screener in the good old USA taking my hand lotion because I didn't have a baggie for it....

 

[Pinnie]

Yes, and this is why the TSA theater is a ridiculous show.

To the poster @14 who blamed lax screening in Nigeria...please. You can jump up and down and scream (kind of like the FBI agents who were trying to get their supervisors, anyone, to take notice of their observation that Saudi nationals were taking flight training on jumbo jets without learning how to land them) - and it makes no difference. Yet that TSA screener in the good old USA taking my hand lotion because I didn't have a baggie for it....

That post at 14 was mine and I think you need to re read it. I live under the flight path of arriving and departing planes out of DTW (depending on wind and other factors), so this episode hit close to home. The TSA at your airport did his job. It is repeated over and over that you can only take 3 oz of liquid in a baggie through security. In addition, there are signs at every airport reminding you of the rules. It's only YOUR fault you lost your hand cream.

Various news accounts on CNN, MSNBC, etc, today have reported that the Nigerian TSA is lax. They do not have the same up to date apparatus at that airport as we do in the USA.

Unfortunately, until the rest of the world is vigilant, then we will continue to have these problems.

pinnie

 

[AppleSister1]

I flew domestically yesterday. Short flight, from MHT to LGA, about 55 minutes. TSA at MHT was a bit more vigilant (had my whole carry on searched, that's never happened before and I fly multiple times a month.) However, we were allowed to have things on our laps, read, etc. for the whole flight, also allowed to move around, use the bathroom the whole time as well.

I think the new rules are going to apply only to flights originating outside the US.

 

[Anal Annie]

I am home now, I was on a domestic flight from MCO to LGA and we were not made to sit in our seats until we were ready to land, in fact I had to use the restroom and got up and used it about 20 minutes before we landed. I also used in flight internet right up until everyone had to turn off all electronic devices.

As for the incident on Christmas Day, I don't think Nigeria is to blame for letting this terrorist on the plane, I was speaking to my sister who flys with her family each summer to Morocco, she told me all people boarding flights to the USA and only to the USA are frisked, and she said everyone. Now this moron from Christmas boarded a flight from Nigeria to Amsterdam and then boarded a flight to the USA on a different airline. After reading the story of how his own father tried to warn US officials, we can place a big part of the blame on our own diplomats.

So how did the carry-on bag restriction work for your flight? We JUST got to the point where we could pack light enough to fly to WDW in carry-ons & not have to check luggage and pay fees....BUT I depend on each of us being able to have a "personal article" that we place under the seat in front of us (backpack for DS, tote bag for me and a laptop for DH) while we each put a regulation size duffle or pilot case in the overheads. Did they allow items under the seats?? Which airline were you on? We are flying down on SW and home on Air Tran in March. I suppose all these rules will probably be changed & adjusted between now & then?! This really sucks if most of the airlines continue to charge for checked bags AND they limit the carry-ons.

Next they'll probably make us fly with our arms up in the air like we're all criminals.

 

[PolynesianLily]

So these rules do not apply to Americans (not moving for the last hour, nothing in hands)? But they will apply to let's say Canadians? Curious.

This is from WestJet:

WestJet is advising all U.S.-bound guests that, effective immediately, they are prohibited from bringing any carry-on baggage, with the exception of a small purse, diaper bag, laptop bag or backpack.

This measure is being implemented in an effort to reduce wait times at airport security checkpoints, where guests will be physically searched and carry-on luggage will be hand-searched, in addition to normal airport security procedures.

WestJet guests are advised to arrive for U.S. flights two to three hours in advance of scheduled departure times.

These new procedures are scheduled to be in effect until at least December 30, 2009. WestJet will update guests as new information becomes available.

Let's just say I think i'm driving to Florida.

 

[Tozzie]

So how did the carry-on bag restriction work for your flight? We JUST got to the point where we could pack light enough to fly to WDW in carry-ons & not have to check luggage and pay fees....BUT I depend on each of us being able to have a "personal article" that we place under the seat in front of us (backpack for DS, tote bag for me and a laptop for DH) while we each put a regulation size duffle or pilot case in the overheads. Did they allow items under the seats?? Which airline were you on? We are flying down on SW and home on Air Tran in March. I suppose all these rules will probably be changed & adjusted between now & then?! This really sucks if most of the airlines continue to charge for checked bags AND they limit the carry-ons.

Next they'll probably make us fly with our arms up in the air like we're all criminals.

There were no carry on restrictions, the limit was the same as always and I had access to everything I was actually reading a magazine when we landed. These rules are for international flights.

 

[DebbieB]

So these rules do not apply to Americans (not moving for the last hour, nothing in hands)? But they will apply to let's say Canadians? Curious.

It applies to INTERNATIONAL flights arriving in the US. It would apply to everyone on the plane.

 

[pxlbarrel]

It applies to INTERNATIONAL flights arriving in the US. It would apply to everyone on the plane.

That doesn't make much sense either. Why exempt domestic flights from the security measures if these measures are supposed to make air travel so much safer?

When I fly out of Toronto, my camera bag is ALWAYS swabbed for whatever reason. It's so routine to me now that I know it'll be pulled aside to be swabbed. I think it's only happened once flying out of the U.S. (one time at LaGuardia if anybody's interested).

So... why not the same measures for U.S. domestic flights? Are they saying nobody who's travelling within the U.S. wishes to do harm to anybody?

 

[WDWjen]

"It applies to INTERNATIONAL flights arriving in the US. It would apply to everyone on the plane."

Hopefully the above statement is true and not for domestic short flights!! We are leaving in a month, NY-Orlando, with 3 kids and I'm hoping they are not expected to sit quietly with nothing in their laps for one hour !! They barely sat through 50 minutes at church on christmas! LOL.

 

[Flossbolna]

That doesn't make much sense either. Why exempt domestic flights from the security measures if these measures are supposed to make air travel so much safer?

When I fly out of Toronto, my camera bag is ALWAYS swabbed for whatever reason. It's so routine to me now that I know it'll be pulled aside to be swabbed. I think it's only happened once flying out of the U.S. (one time at LaGuardia if anybody's interested).

So... why not the same measures for U.S. domestic flights? Are they saying nobody who's travelling within the U.S. wishes to do harm to anybody?

I think the idea behind is as follows: anyone on a domestic flight has been through security screening by the TSA so the TSA knows the level of screening. Anyone on a flight from abroas was screened at a level unknown to the TSA (please take note that I don't say anything about quality of screening here, that's a whole other issue which I don't intend to comment on).

"It applies to INTERNATIONAL flights arriving in the US. It would apply to everyone on the plane."

Hopefully the above statement is true and not for domestic short flights!! We are leaving in a month, NY-Orlando, with 3 kids and I'm hoping they are not expected to sit quietly with nothing in their laps for one hour !! They barely sat through 50 minutes at church on christmas! LOL.

Thanks for posting this! When I said exactly the same a few posts earlier, someone seemed to think my comment was outrageous.

 

[pxlbarrel]

I think the idea behind is as follows: anyone on a domestic flight has been through security screening by the TSA so the TSA knows the level of screening. Anyone on a flight from abroas was screened at a level unknown to the TSA (please take note that I don't say anything about quality of screening here, that's a whole other issue which I don't intend to comment on).

Yeah, but that's exactly my point. Canadian security swabs my bags more than the U.S. TSA.

I'm not sure how any of these measures makes us safer. Now...if you get more explosive sniffing dogs or those body scanner things that, I have to say, up until now I wasn't thrilled about.... then, maybe it'll stop this kind of threat. And...just lightening this up a big... would this mean bomb sniffing dogs sniffing at people's.. ummm crotches?

I'm just glad we flew back a week ago and I haven't planned another trip into the U.S. for a while.

 

[dburg30]

Well, I would guess that would change some of the TSA's 'hopes' on their blog. They were hoping to free up the amounts of liquids that would be allowed to be carried on. I would guess that is out the window now.. The thing is, they are in a no win situation. If someone REALLY wants to perform an act of terrorism, it will be very hard to catch them, unless EVERY person is screened / scanned / swabbed etc etc. And then there is still NO WAY to be 100% sure, short of a full body search (and I mean FULL body search) to really have a chance. And let's admit, I doubt that will happen. All I see is that again the terrorists have 'won' another victory. They try to put fear and terror into people, and even though it was a 'failed' attempt I still think they've done their job. And I agree the whole 1 carry on thing, or the everyone in their seats the last hour of the flight wont change much of anything if someone is going to try something.

It's sad that this is the world we live in, but that's just how it is.

 

[Flossbolna]

Yeah, but that's exactly my point. Canadian security swabs my bags more than the U.S. TSA.

I'm just glad we flew back a week ago and I haven't planned another trip into the U.S. for a while.

That's why I said I am not commenting on quality!

I am flying to MCO from Germany in four weeks and am not looking forward to this one hour rule! That will be hour number 10 in cramped economy class seats for us.

To be honest, since I don't have the option of driving (still no bridge bulit across the Atlantic) and since I don't have enough vacation days to take a freight ship and not enough money to take QE II, my desire to travel to the US will be reduced by quite a bit. Take this in addition with ESTA and the new suggested entry fee, it might make travel safer (even if this debatable in my opinion), but I wonder wether it won't have a negative impact on tourist numbers.

 

[PolynesianLily]

That doesn't make much sense either. Why exempt domestic flights from the security measures if these measures are supposed to make air travel so much safer?

When I fly out of Toronto, my camera bag is ALWAYS swabbed for whatever reason. It's so routine to me now that I know it'll be pulled aside to be swabbed. I think it's only happened once flying out of the U.S. (one time at LaGuardia if anybody's interested).

So... why not the same measures for U.S. domestic flights? Are they saying nobody who's travelling within the U.S. wishes to do harm to anybody?

That was exactly what I was thinking.

I was just commenting about how some people on here are saying that they are allowed to get up and move during the last hour of the flight, but flights from other countries into the US are supposed to star straight ahead with their hands on their laps.

Or that is what I heard on the Canadian news.

 

[twinklebug]

Yeah, but that's exactly my point. Canadian security swabs my bags more than the U.S. TSA.

I'm not sure how any of these measures makes us safer. Now...if you get more explosive sniffing dogs or those body scanner things that, I have to say, up until now I wasn't thrilled about.... then, maybe it'll stop this kind of threat. And...just lightening this up a big... would this mean bomb sniffing dogs sniffing at people's.. ummm crotches?

Pardon my ignorance, but what does swabbing a bag do exactly? Wouldn't a terrorist wash down their bag to hide anything?

I travel to MCO with a bag packed with food for the kids and every single time it arrives on the other end with a note stating that TSA inspected it - I'm positive it's because the full can of Peanut butter looks odd on the scanning equipment (or makes the dogs go nuts LOL) It doesn't bother me in the least as long as I know they're doing their best to keep the flight safe and my suitcase isn't mangled in the process.

It's sort of funny that we can throw millions of dollars into developing and purchasing advanced detection equipment, or we can simply add more canines to the routine (I'm not saying they're cheap - but I feel they have a natural ability we have a hard time replicating) I'm all for pairing more materials-trained dogs up with TSA agents at the checkpoints as well as having them randomly roam the gates. Sniff away!

http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/editorial_multi_image_0003.shtm

 

[DebbieB]

Well, I would guess that would change some of the TSA's 'hopes' on their blog. They were hoping to free up the amounts of liquids that would be allowed to be carried on. I would guess that is out the window now.. The thing is, they are in a no win situation. If someone REALLY wants to perform an act of terrorism, it will be very hard to catch them, unless EVERY person is screened / scanned / swabbed etc etc. And then there is still NO WAY to be 100% sure, short of a full body search (and I mean FULL body search) to really have a chance. And let's admit, I doubt that will happen. All I see is that again the terrorists have 'won' another victory. They try to put fear and terror into people, and even though it was a 'failed' attempt I still think they've done their job. And I agree the whole 1 carry on thing, or the everyone in their seats the last hour of the flight wont change much of anything if someone is going to try something.

It's sad that this is the world we live in, but that's just how it is.

Sadly, I agree. There was a story on the news the other night that a terrorist had explosives up his butt and exploded himself near a prince or king, I can't remember where, somewhere in the middle east. He was killed, the prince was fine. That's the scarey part, they want to die for the cause. They will find their way around any security measure.

You take chances everywhere. Someone could easily have a bag of explosives and blow it up on a busy street or on a subway. The Disney check isn't foolproof - a person could have explosives or gun under their shirt and walk straight in through the "no bag" entrance.

 

[kaytieeldr]

To be honest, since I don't have the option of driving (still no bridge bulit across the Atlantic)

Somewhat off-topic (but not quite) - a few years back, when Mapquest first started, the directions it provided from New York to London were, basically, "Drive to Boston, swim to England, drive to London".

 

[beachbunny]

Pinnie: He was searched twice, once in Nigeria and once in Amsterdam. I've flown several times from Africa to Amsterdam to US. Each time, we go through a second screening in Amsterdam at the gate. I'm assuming that it's because the screening I've gone through out of Africa has been a joke. They're actually using the full body scan in Amsterdam - unlike the US that won't implement because of privacy issues. Frankly, I think the security procedures in Amsterdam are stricter than the US. I don't know how they didn't spot it.

 

[Flossbolna]

Somewhat off-topic (but not quite) - a few years back, when Mapquest first started, the directions it provided from New York to London were, basically, "Drive to Boston, swim to England, drive to London".

Oh yes, I remember that!! I think it was go to a pier somewhere in Boston and then arrive at Caen in France. Pretty funny!! They even told you it was over 3,400 miles: http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t63468.html

Pinnie: He was searched twice, once in Nigeria and once in Amsterdam. I've flown several times from Africa to Amsterdam to US. Each time, we go through a second screening in Amsterdam at the gate. I'm assuming that it's because the screening I've gone through out of Africa has been a joke. They're actually using the full body scan in Amsterdam - unlike the US that won't implement because of privacy issues. Frankly, I think the security procedures in Amsterdam are stricter than the US. I don't know how they didn't spot it.

My German newspaper says that he did not go through a full body scanner since this was only a test in Amsterdam which since then has stopped.

In my experience it is standard ever since 9/11 to go through a second security check before you get to your gate to go on an airplane to the US. Only in Frankfurt there are some gates for flights to the US where there isn't a second security check if you arrive on a Lufthansa flight from another country from within the EU.

 

[Flossbolna]

It appears that the one hour rule has come to an end:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/28/national/main6030609.shtml?tag=stack