How I Hate FastPass+

[Nancyg56]

and how much are thoseVIP tours .... definitely not something for most guests and there are a limited number of tours

They are expensve, and I dont think you can "buy" FP when you are taking the tour. What you are paying for is a CM who pland your time and can manage te FP and timing so you spend minimal time in line.

 

[gdrj]

They are expensve, and I dont think you can "buy" FP when you are taking the tour. What you are paying for is a CM who pland your time and can manage te FP and timing so you spend minimal time in line.

You are correct. Just was commenting on post that said unlimited FP's already exist through tours (which was not exactly accurate).

 

[Nancyg56]

You are correct. Just was commenting on post that said unlimited FP's already exist through tours (which was not exactly accurate).

Got it! I was afraid folks would think you can "buy" FP.

There is so much misinformation out there! Thanks for the clarification!​

 

[mom2rtk]

To me, this kind of thought process explains why I tend to believe that increasing ride capacity should have been/should be a higher priority. Yes, they are doing it, but they are doing so at a glacial pace that doesn't seem to match/meet what they need.

That was exactly my point earlier in the thread.

If it's FP+ that's causing the longer lines, that's on Disney.

If it's more bodies through the gates also causing the longer waits, that's also on Disney. I see lots of posts over time saying "Of course the lines are longer, attendance is up". Well, Disney knows that, far better than we do. They have scoured their data to find ways to run the right promotions on the right weeks to GET that attendance up. They have entire departments dedicated to getting that attendance up. Yet they chose a ride rationing system over the option of adding ride capacity at the levels needed to keep up. When they do add attractions lately, it seems something else gets closed first. So yes, that option is also on them.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

We spent March 21-28 in the world with our Grandson. This was the first trip that it was just Grandma & Grandpa with him. Everything worked out great for using FastPass+. We would make sure to get to the park first thing when it opened and ride all the rides we wanted and than save our FastPasses for the evening. Our first morning in the MK we rode Space Mt. 4 times in a row , Buzz, Indy Speedway, Mermaid, Haunted mansion, Pirates, Splash and BTMRR by noon and left the park to go and swim at our resort. We did this the same every day. We always sch. our FastPass for the evening except for Animal Kingdom and it worked great. I will say that if you do not get to the parks early you are going to stand in a lot more lines because of FastPass+.

 

[busymommy2pink]

We really enjoyed fastpass+. It allowed us the freedom to sleep in and not have to be at the park for opening if you want to ride Soarin, splash mountian, nine train etc. it felt like more of a vacation to us. I downloaded the app on my phone and had zero issues moving my passes around if say the kids wanted to eat instead of ride. Same was also true about adding more once we used all ours. We found we waited less time in lines, rode more rides and overall had a much more relaxing time. We aren't a commando family, so it worked really well for us.

 

[ArwenMarie]

and how much are thoseVIP tours .... definitely not something for most guests and there are a limited number of tours

The VIP Tour gives FP access to as many rides as you can fit in within a certain timeframe, which is what an unlimited FP would also do. However, it's priced way out of reach of most families. Even if you subtract out the expense of the guide, it's still out of reach of most. So even if Disney did offer an unlimited FP, I don't think it would be something that most families could afford. My point was Disney already offers an unlimited FP product, the VIP Tour.

 

[ArwenMarie]

That was exactly my point earlier in the thread.

If it's FP+ that's causing the longer lines, that's on Disney.

If it's more bodies through the gates also causing the longer waits, that's also on Disney. I see lots of posts over time saying "Of course the lines are longer, attendance is up". Well, Disney knows that, far better than we do. They have scoured their data to find ways to run the right promotions on the right weeks to GET that attendance up. They have entire departments dedicated to getting that attendance up. Yet they chose a ride rationing system over the option of adding ride capacity at the levels needed to keep up. When they do add attractions lately, it seems something else gets closed first. So yes, that option is also on them.

While building rides would be great, they could also let less people in per day.

 

[dmband]

There would not be capacity for that. That's why they limit to 3 in advance and have the tier system. If you paid for unlimited fastpasses and to wait in a 30 minute line each time to use them how would you feel?

Exactly
How could you have unlimited

A good picture speaks volumes.

wish I could have got a picture of people standing in line for fp at RS racers in dl
People people where waiting longer to get a fp then just walking to the ride and going on it, all at rope drop

 

[itchin2go]

They are expensve, and I dont think you can "buy" FP when you are taking the tour. What you are paying for is a CM who pland your time and can manage te FP and timing so you spend minimal time in line.

You are correct. Just was commenting on post that said unlimited FP's already exist through tours (which was not exactly accurate).

Got it! I was afraid folks would think you can "buy" FP.

There is so much misinformation out there! Thanks for the clarification!​

The VIP Tour gives FP access to as many rides as you can fit in within a certain timeframe, which is what an unlimited FP would also do. However, it's priced way out of reach of most families. Even if you subtract out the expense of the guide, it's still out of reach of most. So even if Disney did offer an unlimited FP, I don't think it would be something that most families could afford. My point is Disney already offers an unlimited FP product, the VIP Tour.

Thank you ArwenMarie for posting this. There are plenty of reports out there from families that have used the VIP services that WDW offers. They did not wait in stand-by lines. They went in with the FP folks every time. It's true that the service comes with other things ... a VIP tour guide foremost, but it's NOT true that is DOESN'T get you unlimited FPs ... because it does. They are not bound by the same constraints as the rest of us.

There aren't many morons who would pay those prices to have a guide take you around to rides so you could ride standby ... with 45 minutes waits ... or more. (Although, a friend of a friend paid for a NON-Disney tour guide who couldn't do much more than lead them from ride to ride (a human map, if you will), and they were thrilled with the service ).

 

[whiporee]

Now we have done this exercise before, but I am glad you are into math. You are correct, the addition of 2100 people a day has a greater impact that it seems on the surface, though the math you have about the impact they have on a ride is quite off, I mean if rides only got through 40 people an hour, WDW would be in REAL trouble.

In fact I tried to resist, but I couldn't ... lets look at the impact of 2100 people a day, 21 people per hour per ride ... Take Splash Mountain, it runs about 1800 people per hour, 30 people per minute, which means your addition of 21 people would add about 45 seconds to the ride wait. Now even if you had that stead flow all day for like 10 hours, by the end of they day the wait would have increased 7.5 mins above what it was. But of course we know thats not how it works, but even worse case scenario ... that's what you would get.

Of course, thats just one ride, other rides would be affected more some less, but the increased attendance just make sense for the increased wait times we have seen on many of the attractions.

Now, do the math on what happens if you greatly expand the usage and availability of FPs.

What happens if you used to have ... 5000 people using 3 FPs a day (since we are just picking numbers) And you increased that to 17000 people using 3 FPs a day ? (think virtual people, virtual riders here)

What happens to SB lines on a ride, if you make FPs available for it, and devote 70% capacity to FP ?

The answers to these questions is why FP+ has increased SB wait times.

You're right, my math was off. I've tried to figure out how to fix it, but I guess I can't. So I'll grant my error as to the amount of the delay -- to accommodate those 21 people on SM, it takes seven extra cars an hour, on Splash and Big Thunder and the Dwarves it's two. For A&E it's three extra groups per hour, for PP it's 10 ships. None of those takes 30 minutes to fill, but it does take something, and that increases wait times no matter whether they use a FP or not, and those effects are cumulative throughout the day. But my math was off and I was in error and I honestly do appreciate you for pointing that out.

But does this make sense to you? If you have more people through the gate, then doesn't it follow that FP- would have been gone sooner, too? So then getting information on how to manage Disney would become paramount to everyone, and the crowds at RD would get even larger than they are, you'd have more of a sprint to collect FPs, which would then get used up earlier in the day, so you wouldn't have the option of coming into the park and getting tickets to headliners because they'd be gone earlier and earlier.

I agree that the influx of FP+s into the overall line causes the SB line to be longer and by definition, adding any FP option to any ride is going to increase its standby line. I don't think any FP+ supporter can argue that. But increased SB lines are inevitable not because of the system but because of the crowds. FP- worked to benefit those who knew the best ways to take advantage of it, but that benefit came as a detriment to other people because ride capacity is finite. I don't say that as a bad thing -- heck, the only time we can go this year is Thanksgiving week, and I'm seriously considering the VIP tour. My 10 FP+s for any and everything will increase waits for both the SB and the FP lines and will negatively affect other visitors, but I might do it because it's the only way I feel my family can have the vacation I'd like to have. And that would be the case with everyone (not the tour, but developing strategies) because as more and more people come to Disney informed, more and more of them would do the things necessary to maximize their vacation. That would mean more people at RD, more people using more FP-s earlier in the day. Wouldn't you agree that's inevitable? And as the crowds increase year to year, that would only get worse?

 

[itchin2go]

I'm glad you had an easier experience than we did.

We went in November. It was Wine and Dine 1/2 weekend, so it was busy, but certainly not Christmas/Easter level crowds. We stayed til Wednesday that week, and W&D crowds thinned out pretty soon after Sunday.

We did not get the ADRs we wanted at 180. I finally managed to get BOG (which was about the only one we really wanted), through the cancellation thread on here. I wasn't able to get A&E, even at midnight at my 60 day mark, at all. I only managed to get it through a cancellation thread on here also. 7DMT was gone for our entire trip about 5 mins after the 60 day window opened. Other availability was fine, but those 2 things were important to us on this trip. As for flexibility, we were not able to change our FPs at will. The few times we tried, there was very little to switch to.

This is not to say we had a bad vacation. We definitely did not! We had a wonderful vacation! We did not find the availability/flexibility that you have found, though. If we had we may have felt differently about certain aspects of the trip. It just wasn't the case for our trip. Regardless, we still had a fantastic vacation.

The ADRs are a separate story ... and nothing new. Remember when no one could get an ADR for Cinderella's table (a decade ago, probably)? Hot ticket ADRs just are what they are. They're hard to get, and you either get them or you don't. FP hasn't changed that.

Regarding the other 2 FPs you mention, I will say this. Under the old system, you could have showed up at rope drop, gotten a return time, and ridden them for sure. There is the matter, though, of whether the return time would have been acceptable to you -- because there was no choosing -- you got what you got. Also, there are those people who would have complained that they showed up at 11:00, and FPs were gone for the day! If your FP return time was unacceptable OR FPs were gone for the day, you choices would have been the same as they've always been ... wait in the standby line or skip it.

For our last trip (Thanksgiving 2014), I got everything I wanted (which in terms of hard to get things, just meant SDMT and for ADRs, an MK dessert party (which I will NEVER book again)). Luckily for me, I have a 13 year old who is not into A&E, and I have eaten at BOG once and won't make that mistake again. Regardless, I stressed, and researched, and planned and was diligent, and I was able to book what I wanted. Not saying anyone else doesn't do these things. But it was Thanksgiving week, for gosh sake, and I successfully booked what I wanted. We also rode most rides standby with little to no waits (meaning there wasn't even a separate FP line for those rides at that point).

 

[itchin2go]

I'm happy you like it.

Uhhhhhh....we have!












But yeah....we do miss WDW...

And for the record...I am "Jason" aka...the tall one.

Was Memphis in there? Reminded me of a time at the Beale Street Musical Festival, which could have easily turned into a mud-wrestling festival!

 

[whiporee]

Thank you ArwenMarie for posting this. There are plenty of reports out there from families that have used the VIP services that WDW offers. They did not wait in stand-by lines. They went in with the FP folks every time. It's true that the service comes with other things ... a VIP tour guide foremost, but it's NOT true that is DOESN'T get you unlimited FPs ... because it does. They are not bound by the same constraints as the rest of us.

There aren't many morons who would pay those prices to have a guide take you around to rides so you could ride standby ... with 45 minutes waits ... or more.

That's my understanding when talking to the VIP people -- the CM works as a fastpass all day long. And even the Disney people will tell you that the tour guide is wonderful, but the real benefit is the FPs. During Thanksgiving it's 500 an hour, so a full day is four grand. So when people talk about it would be nice if Disney offered and unlimited FP, they need to understand you'd be talking about an extra $300 per person per day. There aren't many who'd pay that price, and if they made it, say $50 or something reasonable, it would quickly lose it's ability to be effective -- the FP lines would be longer than the SBs.

 

[itchin2go]

That's my understanding when talking to the VIP people -- the CM works as a fastpass all day long. And even the Disney people will tell you that the tour guide is wonderful, but the real benefit is the FPs. During Thanksgiving it's 500 an hour, so a full day is four grand. So when people talk about it would be nice if Disney offered and unlimited FP, they need to understand you'd be talking about an extra $300 per person per day. There aren't many who'd pay that price, and if they made it, say $50 or something reasonable, it would quickly lose it's ability to be effective -- the FP lines would be longer than the SBs.

And isn't there a minimum number of hours? So you can't just book 1 hour ....

And it HAS to be that expensive, because if it were cheap enough that everyone were booking it, it would blow the economy of the rides (as PP have pointed out). Your so called "FP" would become meaningless because SO many people would have them, that there would be nothing "fast" about it.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Was Memphis in there? Reminded me of a time at the Beale Street Musical Festival, which could have easily turned into a mud-wrestling festival!

Yep!

 

[mom2rtk]

And isn't there a minimum number of hours? So you can't just book 1 hour ....

And it HAS to be that expensive, because if it were cheap enough that everyone were booking it, it would blow the economy of the rides (as PP have pointed out). Your so called "FP" would become meaningless because SO many people would have them, that there would be nothing "fast" about it.

I think it's a 6 hour minimum for up to 10 people.

And I agree that it has to be that expensive. I don't mind an occasional group like that going in since the impact is minimal. If that happened repeatedly while I was waiting I'd be quite annoyed.

They would have to decrease the number of regular FPs offered to offset it if they sold it in large quantities. And capacity is already an issue so much of the time.

 

[misse320]

I love FP+ and I'm a planner. For us, it eliminates the annoying need to collect everyone's KTWC and sprint to an attraction for a FP, then find the rest of my family later. It also eliminates my frustration with people who could not figure out those old machines. Man was that annoying! Lastly, without FP+ we never made it on TSM. DHS days are sleep-in days for us and by the time we got to the park the FPs were very late and we had no intention of staying that late.

I do agree that the one park rule is silly, but I trust that Disney will work this all out eventually.

 

[ArwenMarie]

And isn't there a minimum number of hours? So you can't just book 1 hour ....

And it HAS to be that expensive, because if it were cheap enough that everyone were booking it, it would blow the economy of the rides (as PP have pointed out). Your so called "FP" would become meaningless because SO many people would have them, that there would be nothing "fast" about it.

I believe it's six hours minimum at $369 minimum per hour (can go up to $500) for a total of ten people. So that's $2160-$3000 bucks for six hours.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The ADRs are a separate story ... and nothing new. Remember when no one could get an ADR for Cinderella's table (a decade ago, probably)? Hot ticket ADRs just are what they are. They're hard to get, and you either get them or you don't. FP hasn't changed that.

Regarding the other 2 FPs you mention, I will say this. Under the old system, you could have showed up at rope drop, gotten a return time, and ridden them for sure. There is the matter, though, of whether the return time would have been acceptable to you -- because there was no choosing -- you got what you got. Also, there are those people who would have complained that they showed up at 11:00, and FPs were gone for the day! If your FP return time was unacceptable OR FPs were gone for the day, you choices would have been the same as they've always been ... wait in the standby line or skip it.

For our last trip (Thanksgiving 2014), I got everything I wanted (which in terms of hard to get things, just meant SDMT and for ADRs, an MK dessert party (which I will NEVER book again)). Luckily for me, I have a 13 year old who is not into A&E, and I have eaten at BOG once and won't make that mistake again. Regardless, I stressed, and researched, and planned and was diligent, and I was able to book what I wanted. Not saying anyone else doesn't do these things. But it was Thanksgiving week, for gosh sake, and I successfully booked what I wanted. We also rode most rides standby with little to no waits (meaning there wasn't even a separate FP line for those rides at that point).

I never claimed fp+ was responsible for not being able to book ADRs, nor was I comparing fp+ availability to legacy.

The person to whom I was responding was essentially saying (paraphrasing here) that she didn't believe that lack of availability was really an issue for booking ADRs and FP+ unless you were talking about the busiest weeks of the year.

All I did was share my experience with availability issues during a week that is not one of the busiest of the year - sharing the same benchmarks that she did adrs and fp+).

I'm glad there was more availability for her trip and for yours. That doesn't change the issues we had with it on ours.