How does vandalism and looting accomplish anything???

[OurBigTrip]

Yup. In particular, I'm getting really tired of the term "thugs" being used every time someone wants to talk about their gun rights or "justifiable" homicide.

In this case, the term thug has nothing to do with gun rights or justifiable homicide.

 

[Suger Mag]

The preliminary report also suggests that he was shot from some distance away...

"The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access."

It does not make sense that someone who was running away... and had achieved a signifigant distance ... only to turn around and "charge" back towards the police officer.

Anyone who is streetwise (no offense meant... I consider myself to be somewhat streetwise) would totally know that running back at the officer at that point would be suicide or more properly 'suicide by cop'. I do not buy that he was charging the officer.

As Judge Judy says... if it does not make sense, then it must not be true...

It make more sense to me that he stopped and turned to surrender (maybe at more shots fired) and then was shot from the front.

Looking at the autopsy sketch picture you can see that the bullets would be clustered if the arms were raised and near the head region...

Just my .02

 

[OurBigTrip]

Anyone who is streetwise (no offense meant... I consider myself to be somewhat streetwise) would totally know that running back at the officer at that point would be suicide or more properly 'suicide by cop'. I do not buy that he was charging the officer.

As Judge Judy says... if it does not make sense, then it must not be true...

It make more sense to me that he stopped and turned to surrender (maybe at more shots fired) and then was shot from the front.

Looking at the autopsy sketch picture you can see that the bullets would be clustered if the arms were raised and near the head region...

Just my .02

Could be.

My .02 is that he probably turned, and if he took any steps back towards the officer without his arms up, he was fired upon.

I'm also guessing that the shot to the eye brought him down, and as he was falling, the shot that hit the top of his head was fired.

But nothing more than a guess at this point.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

The preliminary report also suggests that he was shot from some distance away...

"The bullets did not appear to have been shot from very close range because no gunpowder was present on his body. However, that determination could change if it turns out that there is gunshot residue on Mr. Brown’s clothing, to which Dr. Baden did not have access."

It does not make sense that someone who was running away... and had achieved a signifigant distance ... only to turn around and "charge" back towards the police officer.

Anyone who is streetwise (no offense meant... I consider myself to be somewhat streetwise) would totally know that running back at the officer at that point would be suicide or more properly 'suicide by cop'. I do not buy that he was charging the officer.

As Judge Judy says... if it does not make sense, then it must not be true...

It make more sense to me that he stopped and turned to surrender (maybe at more shots fired) and then was shot from the front.

Looking at the autopsy sketch picture you can see that the bullets would be clustered if the arms were raised and near the head region...

Just my .02

Purely speculating for arguments sake but even though he had made it a significant distance from the police car the officer was chasing him so he may have only been a few steps ahead of him, he may have decided he couldn't outrun him and his only option for escape was to turn and fight, gun residue only travels 3 to 5 feet so he wouldn't have to be very far away from the officer for it not to be present. You're right it would be suicidal if he thought it through but since this whole episode likely took seconds he was probably reacting from the fight or flight instinct.

I think the problem I have with the execution style killing theory is that doesn't make sense either, why would a previously good cop who's been on the force for 6 years with no problems just decide to randomly kill someone one day and risk his career and freedom for no reason? Fight or flight could answer this as well. Neither the charging or execution scenario makes sense but since this happened in seconds and instincts most likely took over I think both are equally likely.

The arm theory is very interesting, these wounds could be the key to figuring out if he was surrendering or charging. If his arms were stretched above his head or he had his finger interlaced behind his head the bullets would go straight into the arm until they exited or deflected but if he was running towards the officer his lower arm would be roughly at a 90 degree angle by his side which means the wounds in his hand and lower arm would go into his arm at an angle before deflecting or exiting. Maybe we still have hope the forensics will provide a definitive answer of what happened.

I have to keep reminding myself that real lives were shattered by this because at times I feel like I'm trying to solve a murder mystery and don't want to lose sight these are real people.

 

[Tomader]

I want to go out and march on behalf of this officer and his family. They need support. This man was in the wrong and he knew it. He thought he would get away with something and he went up against the officer. The results were not in his favor. This is a story about race. This has nothing to do with violence, robbery, and disrespect for authority. Had he just done what the officer asked him to do he would be alive. I tend to believe an officer over any color criminal. The stolen cigars proved that. Teach your kids/adult not to steal, stay in school, respect authority and you may keep them alive. Stop using the color of ones skin as an excuse!

 

[Suger Mag]

I have to keep reminding myself that real lives were shattered by this because at times I feel like I'm trying to solve a murder mystery and don't want to lose sight these are real people.

Ms Brown is on the TV as I type... as a mother myself, my heart hurts for her, no parent should have to bury their child.

 

[pat fan]

I was figuring they were holding off on releasing the autopsy because it didn't fit the narrative, and that's what happened. Of course, it will be discounted since it doesn't fit, but the more that comes out, the less this is murder.

And I just have to repeat, and not looking for an answer because there isn't one I am just incredulous, how does this crazy looting/destruction help anything??? What on earth do they think it will accomplish? I heard one guy saying "we'll take back what is ours" to the police. What? The police aren't holding your town hostage, what is it you're taking back?

 

[sunshinehighway]

I was figuring they were holding off on releasing the autopsy because it didn't fit the narrative, and that's what happened. Of course, it will be discounted since it doesn't fit, but the more that comes out, the less this is murder.

And I just have to repeat, and not looking for an answer because there isn't one I am just incredulous, how does this crazy looting/destruction help anything??? What on earth do they think it will accomplish? I heard one guy saying "we'll take back what is ours" to the police. What? The police aren't holding your town hostage, what is it you're taking back?

Who held off releasing the autopsy because it didn't for their narrative? I think you are confused. This autopsy that was realized is the one done at the request of the family. The first autopsy is the one that hasn't been realized and its law enforcement who haven't realized it. They said early on that they wouldn't.

 

[Luvchefmic]

I was figuring they were holding off on releasing the autopsy because it didn't fit the narrative, and that's what happened. Of course, it will be discounted since it doesn't fit, but the more that comes out, the less this is murder.

And I just have to repeat, and not looking for an answer because there isn't one I am just incredulous, how does this crazy looting/destruction help anything??? What on earth do they think it will accomplish? I heard one guy saying "we'll take back what is ours" to the police. What? The police aren't holding your town hostage, what is it you're taking back?

You are asking a question that can't be answered except with 2 words:
mob mentality

These kind of riots have been happening in our country for decades. I'm old enough to remember when MLK Jr was assassinated and all hell broke lose.

 

[sunshinehighway]

For all of you saying it doesn't fit the narrative, you are just picking out what works for you.
It doesn't fit the idea he was running away but it does fit with him having his arms raised. Look where those bullets to the arm are. The easiest way for bullets to hit there would be with his arms raised..not out running or lunging at someone.

 

[pat fan]

Who held off releasing the autopsy because it didn't for their narrative? I think you are confused.

I am not confused. In trying to not incite more violence, my opinion is that they did not release the autopsy since it did not fit the narrative. Every bit of evidence that has not supported murder has been met with an escalation of violence. I am still waiting for the final report (not autopsy but investigation) but this keeps walking further away from murder. Can I ask if the officer is cleared of wrong doing, will it be accepted? Again, I am not saying this is a done deal, but he was not shot in the back (which everyone said he was and would prove murder) and if the rest of the evidence follows suit, what will be the reaction? I hope and pray to God that this was not murder, and that if it was not the reaction will not be further violence. I can not imagine living there.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I am not confused. In trying to not incite more violence, my opinion is that they did not release the autopsy since it did not fit the narrative. Every bit of evidence that has not supported murder has been met with an escalation of violence. I am still waiting for the final report (not autopsy but investigation) but this keeps walking further away from murder. Can I ask if the officer is cleared of wrong doing, will it be accepted? Again, I am not saying this is a done deal, but he was not shot in the back (which everyone said he was and would prove murder) and if the rest of the evidence follows suit, what will be the reaction? I hope and pray to God that this was not murder, and that if it was not the reaction will not be further violence. I can not imagine living there.

I think you are confused on another thing. It's ok , several people seem to be. I don't think the story was that he was shot in the back. It was that he was running away and turned around to surrender when he was shot. Its now become "oh see he wasn't shot in the back".

The decision not to release the autopsy was made from the beginning. Since the police chief disregarded the recommend of the DOJ about releasing the robbery tapes, its hardly a reasonable conclusion that the autopsy wasn't realized for fear if increased violence l.

 

[pat fan]

I think you are confused on another thing. It's ok , several people seem to be.

Nope, still not confused I am seriously not going through all these pages to do quotes, but there are a lot of folks on here who said he was, even last night watching the coverage on tv (and interviews they showed this morning from last night) they were asking why the officer isn't arrested on murder charges because he was shot in the back. I understand why the talking points change over time, but let's not say that they were not what they were prior to them changing. It's one reason why the rush to judgement is so dangerous. When things come out, it doesn't always match the first impression. Not just with this case, but with ANY case. And you may not have said it, but others have.

 

[brunette8706]

I think you are confused on another thing. It's ok , several people seem to be. I don't think the story was that he was shot in the back. It was that he was running away and turned around to surrender when he was shot. Its now become "oh see he wasn't shot in the back".

The decision not to release the autopsy was made from the beginning. Since the police chief disregarded the recommend of the DOJ about releasing the robbery tapes, its hardly a reasonable conclusion that the autopsy wasn't realized for fear if increased violence l.

What about the bullet wound on top of his head?

 

[Viva Las Disney]

For all of you saying it doesn't fit the narrative, you are just picking out what works for you.
It doesn't fit the idea he was running away but it does fit with him having his arms raised. Look where those bullets to the arm are. The easiest way for bullets to hit there would be with his arms raised..not out running or lunging at someone.

I don't think we have enough information to determine where the arms were. My initial response to the autopsy was the wounds in the arms were consistent with an officer who is trained to shoot center mass until I read Suger Mags comment and it opened up another possibility. I've been watching CNN this morning and they've been interviewing experts who have said it's very hard to determine where arms are located because they twist and turn and can be in almost any position. He also said the location and trajectory of the head wounds were most likely a result of Michael Brown being shot as he was falling forward from the previous shots that had already hit him in the arm. He said the first head wound entered his eye, exited his chin, and ended up near his collarbone and then the shot on the top of the head happened last, both would be consistent with Brown falling forward. It doesn't provide any evidence towards charging or surrendering but it explains why the wounds are were they are.

I'm fascinated by this the same way I was fascinated by the Malaysian Airline jet that disappeared, neither makes any sense and because of that it's intriguing. I just hope we have answers and aren't left with nothing but theories when this investigation wraps up.

 

[Suger Mag]

There have been or will be three autopsies:

1) Ferguson Police/ME: the first one and the only one not released

2) Bader: (the one we are talking about) performed by the family (released)

3) Federal autopsy which is likely in progress.

If the line of logic says that the autopsy was not released becuase it does not fit a narrative... then whose narrative does it not fit?

Hmmmm... it was the Ferguson ME's autopsy that has not been released, so by that line of logic it would be the Ferguson police narrative that it does not fit.

I also believe that since the video WAS released... the decision not to release the Ferguson autopsy is not about fear of more violence ...

 

[OurBigTrip]

What about the bullet wound on top of his head?

What this is all going to come down to is how it is interpreted by a jury. I'll be shocked if charges aren't filed, because most grand juries will indict a ham sandwich, if given the opportunity to do so. That, along with the open threats to continue and even ramp up the violence if charges aren't filed, almost guarantees an indictment.

At any potential trial, both sides are going to present experts that will give their opinion on why the entry wounds are where they are and what they mean. Their opinion will, of course, be based on who is paying their fee.

At that point, it will come down to which side the jury believes.

 

[Suger Mag]

... because most grand juries will indict a ham sandwich, if given the opportunity to do so.

 

[sunshinehighway]

What about the bullet wound on top of his head?

What about it?

Honestly I don't know what to make of it. I hardly think it fits the other narrative that he was someone lunging at the officer with his head down. At that point he'd been shot several times including the neck, face and eye. I can't see any situation where he gets shot all those times in those places them decides to go in a full on head down lunge.

All I was really trying to do was point of the arm wound are consistent with his arms being up and saying they don't fit isn't really true.

 

[pat fan]

If the line of logic says that the autopsy was not released becuase it does not fit a narrative... then whose narrative does it not fit?

Again, just my opinion and Lord knows I'm not always right, but it does not fit the narrative of being shot in the back. If I was the PD, and all heck was breaking loose every 5 minute and I believed my officer that he did not shoot him in the back, then I would not release the report that would incite further anger/violence. Well, not true. If I was the PD, I would have released it and handled things much differently all around, but these guys have not handled this well at all, so there ya go.