How does deeded real estate expire?

[mkatsy]

after some searching yesterday, I found that the state of Florida classifies all timeshare estates as real property. It has nothing to do with condominiums, trusts, or co-ops. The classification is tied to it being a Timeshare. All fractional ownership, regardless of a leasehold, is real property. It's just an arbitrary decision they have made. The statute regarding vacation clubs specifically states this. The master document for Poly filed with comptroller, actually states in the verbiage that the fractional ownership(s) will be classified as real property. Since the state and Disney have both gone out of their way to address this classification, it seems that it would not be assumed to be that way, and needed clarification. In Florida you can have a Timeshare association that consists of igloos on leasehold land, held in a trust, and the fractional shares of the trust are still real property. Why? .... because they can.

 

[Sandisw]

after some searching yesterday, I found that the state of Florida classifies all timeshare estates as real property. It has nothing to do with condominiums, trusts, or co-ops. The classification is tied to it being a Timeshare. All fractional ownership, regardless of a leasehold, is real property. It's just an arbitrary decision they have made. The statute regarding vacation clubs specifically states this. The master document for Poly filed with comptroller, actually states in the verbiage that the fractional ownership(s) will be classified as real property. Since the state and Disney have both gone out of their way to address this classification, it seems that it would not be assumed to be that way, and needed clarification. In Florida you can have a Timeshare association that consists of igloos on leasehold land, held in a trust, and the fractional shares of the trust are still real property. Why? .... because they can.

Have you found a new master documenet for the Poly tower project? If so, can you guide me to it? I don't know how to find things on the website easily!

 

[mkatsy]

Have you found a new master documenet for the Poly tower project? If so, can you guide me to it? I don't know how to find things on the website easily!

https://selfservice.or.occompt.com/ssweb/document/DOC1626S8006?search=DOCSEARCH2950S1 this link should take you to the original poly condominium declaration from 2015. I don’t see any new amendments yet

 

[Sandisw]

https://selfservice.or.occompt.com/ssweb/document/DOC1626S8006?search=DOCSEARCH2950S1 this link should take you to the original poly condominium declaration from 2015. I don’t see any new amendments yet

Okay! I just keep tyring to search for a new update about it and not sure who I put in for "either party" when I do a basic search!

Hopefully, we will get some updates in the next few months...I can't imagine we wont! But, looking at that, it is Disney Polyneisan Villas Bungalows as the Grantee...so at least I can start putting that in!

 

[mkatsy]

Okay! I just keep tyring to search for a new update about it and not sure who I put in for "either party" when I do a basic search!

Hopefully, we will get some updates in the next few months...I can't imagine we wont! But, looking at that, it is Disney Polyneisan Villas Bungalows as the Grantee...so at least I can start putting that in!

Yes, and you can also search ‘Disney Vacation Development Inc.’ which will return many many items, but all you care about is the most recent. There is also a filter that you can apply which has a “condo” option and that will remove the bulk of the listings and just give you the declarations, surveys, and amendments.

 

[AstroBlasters]

From my direct Aulani contract:

“Is it Fee Simple? Your Ownership Interest will include an interest in the land of the Condominium, called an “estate for years,” rather than a fee simple interest in the land.

The estate for years will expire on January 31, 2062 unless it is extended or terminates early. Although you will receive a deed of Your Ownership Interest, as a practical matter, Your Ownership Interest will terminate when the estate for years ends.”

 

[pirate33]

[Deleted for now]

 

[MicheyMouse]

Something most are not considering is what happens in the last 10 years or so. Value plummets, financing becomes extremely difficult, and near the end people just stop paying dues.

You are not going to sell a contract with 5 years left and have a buyer able to get 10 years of financing.

I've seen this happen in ground lease condos. At least Disney will still cover the maintenance of the property. In non-Disney scenarios maintenance of the property declines as the ownership term ends.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Forget the legalese… If Disney gets it back in XX years, it’s very hard to say you “own it”.

 

[Ruttangel]

, and near the end people just stop paying dues.

Maybe they put in a rule that you can’t borrow in last 5 years unless you pay dues on those points in advance

 

[_19disnA]

The estate for years will expire on January 31, 2062 unless it is extended or terminates early. Although you will receive a deed of Your Ownership Interest, as a practical matter, Your Ownership Interest will terminate when the estate for years ends.”

Assuming that is true, wouldn't the value of EVERYONE's Disney timeshare decline as that 'expiration' date gets closer? No one would pay full price if they purchase it in 2060 with only 2 yrs left of the lease. Maybe it works some other way that isn't obvious to me.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Assuming that is true, wouldn't the value of EVERYONE's Disney timeshare decline as that 'expiration' date gets closer? No one would pay full price if they purchase it in 2060 with only 2 yrs left of the lease. Maybe it works some other way that isn't obvious to me.

Yes, the value of the contracts definitely declines as it gets closer to expiration date…. but in practice it’s more concentrated over the last 15 years prior to expiration.

As a side note, I consider 2062 contracts to be worthless at the end of 2061 because they expire in Jan 31, 2062.

 

[mkatsy]

Yes, the value of the contracts definitely declines as it gets closer to expiration date…. but in practice it’s more concentrated over the last 15 years prior to expiration.

As a side note, I consider 2062 contracts to be worthless at the end of 2061 because they expire in Jan 31, 2062.

What do the December use year people do that last year? Borrow everything the second to last year and use it all up?

 

[AstroBlasters]

What do the December use year people do that last year? Borrow everything the second to last year and use it all up?

The real answer is that nobody knows…..

 

[CarolynFH]

Assuming that is true, wouldn't the value of EVERYONE's Disney timeshare decline as that 'expiration' date gets closer? No one would pay full price if they purchase it in 2060 with only 2 yrs left of the lease. Maybe it works some other way that isn't obvious to me.

Yes, they should, and one of the great mysteries here is why resale prices for BCV and BWV aren’t even lower than they are now. We have fewer than 18 years left on our BWV now. Maybe the 15 year mark will be the beginning of a greater decline, but no one knows.

What do the December use year people do that last year? Borrow everything the second to last year and use it all up?

@AstroBlasters is right - no one knows that either. Speculation is that DVC will adjust banking and borrowing for the 2042 resorts a few years prior, maybe adjust the home resort booking period for those resorts, to allow owners to use their points at their home resorts before their ownership ends, but no one knows for sure. Maybe even DVC doesn’t know yet what they’ll do.

 

[Sandisw]

What do the December use year people do that last year? Borrow everything the second to last year and use it all up?

We don’t know but one thing they could do is give everyone their last set of points as a Feb UY. That gives all the full year to use without needing to borrow…